starter?
 

My FD has a new ported motor and single turbo set. But now when I try to start the car all you hear is a click and sometimes you don't even hear click at all. PFC shows about 12.8 volts, so I know its not because of low voltage. Before I blew the motor It would do this every so often but if the motor didn't turn over the first time I would just take the key out and try it again and it would start. But now it seems its doing alot more. I'll actually have to sit there and turn the key over about 20-25 times before the car will start. I'm thinking about adding another ground strap to the starter. Hopefully that will cure the problem. I remember reading something about a problem on the FDs with the ignition on the steering column. Any ideas...? Thanks..Tony

Sounds like your starter is done to me.. I had that problem as well. Invest in a new starter is my opinion.
Edwin

The problem is as stated likely a skewed starter. It could be the contacts in the solenoid are pitted but sounds like you should invest in a new starter.

My starter has been doing similar things. At first i thought it was the clutch interlock switch, so i disconnected it and jumped the connector on the car side to isolate it. Did the same thing, so i figured it was the starter. Bought a new (mazda rebuilt actually) starter from Ray at malloy. Last weekend i pulled the old starter off the car and set it up on my work bench to test it. Hmmmm, works fine on the bench! So i put the old starter back in the car, hmmm, same thing, sometimes the starter doesnt come on when the key is turned. I check the battery, it's fully charged, i check/clean the terminals, still the same thing. I disconnected the solinoid turn on signal wire, rig up a connection to my volt meter, i get 12.5 volts everytime i hit the key switch. Reconnect the solinoid turn on signal and rig up a connection to the turn on signal at the starter, hmm, only get 5.5 volts at the solinod turn on signal with a load on the circuit. Rig up a jumper to supply hot 12V directly to the solinoid, starter works everytime...(make certain the car is in neutral when you do this, and perferably do as i did and rig it up so you are not under the car when you try this). Hmmm. More investigation is needed, but it appears that i have compromized wiring between the starter switch and the solinoid, or perhaps the switch itself is bad. I considered breifly that it could be a ground issue, but then it would not be reliable when jumping 12v to the solinoid.

I suggest that you try jumping 12 V directly to the solinoid. Get a 6 ft or so long 16 gauge wire, crimp a female spade connector to one end, and strip the other about .5 inches, crawl under the car, pull the spade connector off the solinoid and replace it with the one you just made up. Crawl out from under the car, ensure the parking brake is set and the car is in neutral. Carefully touch the stripped end of the wire to the positive terminal of the battery. BRIEFLY!! The starter should engage every time you do this. If it does not, then you have a bad starter.

Mike Nola,
As I remember with the starter engaged/circuit loaded, there should be around 9.5 volts at the solenoid. Now its been 10 years since I did a lot of heat soak diagnosis's so don't quote me. The voltage is surely low at below 6v. With that in mind a voltage drop of that size would create heat. Sometimes it is visual on a connector/relay or switch. The thing to do is monitor the voltage one section at a time. John St. John

My starter has been doing the same thing for almoast 2 years now, there was times that I had to turn the key to start possition 3-4 time for the starter to catch.
I'm not getting a new one till this one croaks completely...

^^^^ why? its a 30min fix, if that.

True, labor is not the point though, $$$ is, runn it till it dies, lol...

What if it croaks in a public area??? ie if you stall on the road... for some reason???
That was my main concern

Hahaha, you're so right, beleive it or not I get scared alot of the times, where I pick my whife up from work, there's alot of people walking by (very busy area, 55th st.& 5th av.)and complimenting the car, that would be the most embarrasing moment if I got stuck pushing it or asking for help to push.... :hah:

hahahahah speaking of which, One day I was in an intersection and it was my turn to make a left turn, and well I was having some problems with my vaccuum and it just stalled. There is this lady in a car to my left waiting to turn, and there I am in the middle of the intersection ... thaks god it wasn't busy... cranking my starter for 2 minutes before it started up again. Oh god was that embaressing... I looked at her and gave her an Idunno shoulder shrug and she smiled back.
after that it was CHANGE THE STARTER !!!! hahahah :)

So did you replace the starter and did that solve your problem?

My problem is NOT the starter, my problem is that the starter circuit is not delivering enough power to the starter solinoid to reliably pull it in. The battery is hot, the terminals are clean and tight. It makes no difference if the car is hot or cold.

Mike

i have a used starter with 61K miles on it...... make an offer... PM me....

have you measured the voltage on the s terminal of the starter? a worn solenoid will require more voltage

Same problem here and starter motor already replaced.

I usually have to turn the key over 4 to 6 times before it turns over.
My wife got stuck with the car one day. When I went to pick up the car, it turned over on the 1st attempt.

I replaced the starter shortly after but the problem still remains.

I also thought about by-passing the switch on the clutch but apparently that won't fix it either.

Found a final fix yet, Mike Nola ?

They are usually pretty easy to rebuild also. Many times just popping it open and cleaning it out will work, maybe get some new brushes for like $10.

Might the alarm-driven starter cutout relay be involved ?

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/wierd-car-wont-start-295023/

No definitive fix. I am certain the problem is in the ignition switch, but i haven't replaced it yet. I have thought that perhaps the problem with the ignition switch is dirty contacts inside the switch, and wondered if spraying TV contact cleaner into the keyhole opening would let the cleaner get into the contacts. Haven't tried it though, the car is parked until i replace the clutch.

Mike Nola

That wont work. The ignition switch is actually on the left side of the steering column and the keyhole side doesnt go all the way through. I rebuilt mine last year, you just take the whole thing out, its a little round white plastic thing. Mazda wanted like $160 for a new one so I said screw that. Usually they just get dirty and your right the contacts dont work anymore. Be real, real careful when you open it up, there are a bunch of tiny little springs inside, then just use some sand paper to clean everything up, throw some grease in and its good.
Be real careful you put it back together the correct way too.

Thanks for debunking my contact cleaner idea before i put anymore thought into it. So after you tore the switch down, did that resolve the problem?

Mike

Chevy's are notorious for the same issue. The problem with our cars is there are switch's and relay contact's in (factory alarm, clutch interlock, not to mention key switch) the way of getting a good voltage to the starter solenoid. Most of the guys (race cars) use a ford starter controled by the original wire that went to the spade connector on the engagement solenoid solenoid to feed the power to the starter and then make up a jumper that connects from the large B+ cable to the engagement solenoid (on the starter spade connector) that was originally controlled by the key switch. This give you a full B+ voltage at the stater motor and starter solenoid and even makes hot starts a breeze. This is just a suggestion as you really need to find the voltage loss from the key switch through all the other contacts to find out what really needs to be replaced. Jack

I've exprerienced similar symptoms (turn key 2-3 times to start), and actually a day ago my starter finally gave in- no clicks, proper voltage, but otherwise nothing. I'll be replacing it this weekend given time. :)

I had the exact same problem you guys are all talking about, But its not the starter that is going bad, its the starter solenoid (little cylinder that sits on the side of the big one)

I took my starter off, cleaned everything real well and made sure the brushes moved freely, lubed up everything then began the search for a new solenoid. Unfortunatly autozone sells the solenoid for over 100$ and im sure its the same with mazda.

but i found a mitsubishi solenoid that fit exactly, cost 30$ and now my car starts so quick it would make your head spin. I even brought it to a shop that ONLY does starters and altinators, the guy tested it and he couldent believe how well it was working for a 13 year old starter.


if you guys want i can try to get the part number off the thing when i get my car back.

Actually, you're really close to my location. If you could forward some info. that would be great. :)

Yes, that fixed my problem, its been working great since.

hah my SierraEXT had the exact same issues with mysterious starting at about 45k miles. at first i replaced the negative lead head to the battery and this would solve the problem for about 2 years, then it would act up again. then finally my bf installed an enitirely new heavy ground wire and it never happened the last 3 years I owned it.

My RX7 went though the same issues with the clicking but no start, sometimes no click. It wouldpop start though. Ran through everything with the voltometer and all was fine. Replaced the starter, it didnt work. I was about to replace the ignition but I took it into a mechanic my friend suggested for one last check. Turned out to be bad grounding. Funny thing is my roommate had the exact same issues with his FD about 2 weeks earlier. After this I put in that HKS grounding kit and Ive had no worries, my headlights are a little brighter too!

Well I solved my problem. The little black plastic stopper that sits on top of the clutch peddle was worn and broke off. I replaced it with a bolt and some washers and problem solved.

/\ use a plastic interior trim piece. the metal bolt will splinter/crack the clutch switch.

for all the guys who think the ignition switch is bad just pull the connector off the neutral/clutch safety switch

put a multi meter probe in the feed side (dont know color off hand, it is one of the 2)

ground the - meter lead

turn the ignition switch to crank and see what the voltage reading is.

batt voltage 12.xx volts is good. less than 11.8 is bad (unless you are running a pos battery and that is a seperate prob. voltage should be the same as when you put the meter on your battery posts)

Did you one better, measured the voltage at the starter solinoid...7 VDC

/\ ok but what is causing the drop? with 2 switches in the line ahead of the measurement point. what is the voltage going into the clutch switch? if it is around 7 v then yea the ignition switch is bad.

I have the clutch switch jumpered out of the circuit.

Soul Annoyed
 

Can you still read the now-dirty solenoid part number?
How accessible is the starter for remove and replace? I don't have a shop manual and my head is too fat to fit under without putting the car up.
Are the manual and automatics different starter/solenoids?

Manual and automatic starters are them selves different, not sure about the solenoid it self. Jack

My car does this same crap to me all the time too. Usually if the car has been sitting for a bit I wil get "click" ot nothing at all. One really strange thing I've found is that if I put the car in gear and rock it back and foreth a few times the car will start fine???? What the hell is this about?

Rocky start
 

I have heard of that on other cars. It seems those tales involved moving the flywheel slightly so the starter would disengage and engage the flywheel gears. Perhaps in this case it moves the solenoid just enough to make a good electrical contact. Or even a better ground path to the engine.... A good detective story to follow.

R&R
 

OK, I guess I will have to put on my grubbies and get under the car; and then maybe pester a parts place about the solenoid...

There is always the wild chance that an RX7 part is accessable and easy to replace... If Mazda's maintainability engineer held sway. That happened with the cigarette lighter.

Things it is not
 

My intermittant starter solenoid response history:

Intermittantly no click, no noise; put up with it.
1) had an electrical smoking in the column, replaced the starter switch.
Still did it.

The "mechanic" mechanically said it must be a bad solenoid.
I got tired of the worry about it starting and let them replace the starter and solenoid.

Still does it.

A lot of wasted money chasing this one....

Back from the dead. The other day I had to charge my battery because the car had sat a few weeks and the battery was pretty low. So as usual I forgot about it and left it on a few days. When I did go out and start it up it started like a real champ. It even seems to be running a bit better now. This was a week ago and I havn't driven it since. I need to go see if it held the charge and get the battery tested. My car likes to flood sometimes too so it's a REAL treat trying to get the car to start when it's flooded AND the starter only engages when it wants to. It's OK though it only happens when there are a bunch of people around so I can look like a reas ass. :)

Anyone have any progress reports on this?

what update he had some sort of electrical short in the steering coloum and replaced the starter solenoid without looking at the ignition switch............

I did the same thing rousu did. I figured it was the original starter with ~120k on it. So I bought a low mileage one and it still does it to this day. I suspect it's the clutch switch under the column. But, car always starts on 1st, 2nd or 3rd click so it isn't a big priority to me.

Latest part of the detective story
 

-------------------------
The mechanic finally (on the 6th visit?) was able to reproduce and cure the problem at will, and now thinks it will really be fixed.

The ignition switch had been replaced before (as well as the starter/solenoid and battery), but they only replaced the electrical part of the ignition switch. It turns out the mechanical part of the switch workings in there in the column were at fault and with some movements around in the tolerance slop, it would get out of positon to make a good electrical contact sometimes. (How the car knew to do it on a dark night in the rain next to a hoodlum house, I don't know.)
Turns out that in re-tumblering the new switch for the old key, they buggered the alarm system, so I have to wait one more day to return to summer driving.

The replacement and fix in a shop can run up to 600$ more or less, so you can decide whether that is worth it to avoid de-impressing your friends with a car that acts like it won't start. And the car is not a good necking car for pulling that on a dark back road with your new lady friend....

Bummer.

First start, no problem.

Second start, had to try key 3 times before normal start.

Big bill, no fixie problem.


At least it always starts... eventually. I think the record number of key turns with no response before a normal start is 20 for my car.

Still doing it
 

there is another thread on this problem. Search for click click

My car is still intermittently doing the click click ... click start schtick over two years later.

Several proposed solutions are on the other thread.

cheers