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SMIC ducting? Does mine look bad?
2 Attachment(s)
So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up)
Attachment 749822 Attachment 749823 Is there anything I can do to improve this set up? I have a 99 spec bumper and I will go vmount later on when I mount my single, but for now I just want the car to be track-able for the next couple of months. I'll be wrapping piping and the SMIC with some DEI gold foil. |
Use duct tape to cover the open battery tray vent.
But, the stock duct is not taking full advantage of the custom IC core. The pettit medium duct is commonly trimmed to fit custom SMICs similar to yours. Or you could trim and rework your existing duct with fiberglass or sheet metal. Or, you could fab your own duct. |
You can block the opening that is past your accumulator, and add two inches of ducting in the bumper opening.
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Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274577)
So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up)
Is there anything I can do to improve this set up? I have a 99 spec bumper and I will go vmount later on when I mount my single, but for now I just want the car to be track-able for the next couple of months. I'll be wrapping piping and the SMIC with some DEI gold foil. Describe the conditions that you are seeing the high AITs? At what temp do you start at? How many times do you floor it before it goes into the high 60's, meaning are you constantly beating on it or is it after a couple of WOTs? What is the ambient air temperature? I'm currently converting to a Vmount but my previous set up was a pettit style large race SMIC with a duct. My AIT's hovered around the mid 30's and after a few WOT runs I'd be in the mid 40's with an ambient air temp of mid 70's. Not too bad. I've been meaning to put it up for sale on here so some else can enjoy it... Gotta get around to it though lol |
Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 12274591)
Describe the conditions that you are seeing the high AITs? At what temp do you start at? How many times do you floor it before it goes into the high 60's, meaning are you constantly beating on it or is it after a couple of WOTs? What is the ambient air temperature?
I'm currently converting to a Vmount but my previous set up was a pettit style large race SMIC with a duct. My AIT's hovered around the mid 30's and after a few WOT runs I'd be in the mid 40's with an ambient air temp of mid 70's. Not too bad. I've been meaning to put it up for sale on here so some else can enjoy it... Gotta get around to it though lol Just driving around say on the freeway I can keep the temps in the 40s, at big willow it was like one or two laps before it heated up to 50s, and then sitting in traffic and such it gets up to the 60s. ambient also around 75-85F during these days. I'm also going to mount a feed style vented hood. |
Curious? What smic is that and does your ducting cover its entire face?
If not, it’s easier to fab one up that fits completely with card board and take it to a machine shop to render an aluminum finished piece. Use the dei tape you talked about. Also look at extending the stock scoop at the mouth area. (Only if you have an upgraded rad imo.)I went through a similar experience recently with a greedy smic. Pay for the fabricated unit. It’s much cheaper and better than anything we can do. Look up my posts. It may help. Wish you the best. |
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274618)
Could I see pics of how you have the duct? does everyone mean extend the duct a little farther than it is, like down and to the front of the bumper opening?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...37b4d2880d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...8fd09f34b9.jpg
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274618)
Just driving around say on the freeway I can keep the temps in the 40s, at big willow it was like one or two laps before it heated up to 50s, and then sitting in traffic and such it gets up to the 60s. ambient also around 75-85F during these days. I'm also going to mount a feed style vented hood.
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I forgot who said this, but its best for smic FD to stay on the streets and with relaxed driving style. Few wot here and there is ok, once you go on the track where you constantly working the twins... it gets hot very fast and stays hot. Doesn't help that our track atmosphere in CA is just HOT in general.
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The FD won endurance races with an SMIC. Vmounts are cool, but not "necessary" by any stretch.
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/...7SPimage01.jpg |
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274577)
So here is the ducting on my SMIC, but I am still getting crazy high IATs (like 60c and up).
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Originally Posted by adam c
(Post 12274663)
Do you have a second oil cooler? That will help a lot more than you think.
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Originally Posted by Aarkaah
(Post 12274642)
Curious? What smic is that and does your ducting cover its entire face?
If not, it’s easier to fab one up that fits completely with card board and take it to a machine shop to render an aluminum finished piece. Use the dei tape you talked about. Also look at extending the stock scoop at the mouth area. (Only if you have an upgraded rad imo.)I went through a similar experience recently with a greedy smic. Pay for the fabricated unit. It’s much cheaper and better than anything we can do. Look up my posts. It may help. Wish you the best. |
Skip the gold foil.
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^ what he said. Just the duct. To seal the parts that may have holes or after you plug the large holes with a thin sheet of metal. And rivets.
Why not just get a real smic? Seems you are relying on a half measure from the previous owner. You can’t be sure it even flows right. Get a good aftermarket smic and duct it properly. No open face. Take a mock up to a machine shop. Should be like $60 bucks. Just my .02 cents. |
Interesting topic. I recently went for a canyon drive after some modifications. My car was running a Blitz SMIC, fluidyne rad, single stock oil cooler, and Adam’s airbox at 15psi boost before and now it has a GReddy VMIC kit and Setrab dual 25-row oil cooler with 12psi boost. With the current setup, I still have IAT beyond 63°C after driving uphill using mostly third gear 4000~6000 RPM. Water temp around 90 before engine cut. It was on a particularly hot day (over 90°F) and the road had some large elevation. It’s my concern that having air filters in the hot engine bay and aluminum (not ideal for heat insulation but good for sustaining stress of high boost) IC pipings causes higher IAT. (My IAT sensor reacts slowly too.) It’s particularly tricky because I am running a zenki (pre99) bumper with small frontal area and factory hood. I assume the VMIC + large oil cooler setup makes more sense on a more modified car that provides adequate airflow. (Not a fan of any aftermarket front bumper or hood though...) Of course, many on the forum run without those just fine. Unfortunately I don’t have IAT obtained under the same driving situation pre-VMIC to compare. I would appreciate some advice and please point out if I have some misconceptions. Ryan |
Originally Posted by RW Atelier
(Post 12274676)
Interesting topic. I recently went for a canyon drive after some modifications. My car was running a Blitz SMIC, fluidyne rad, single stock oil cooler, and Adam’s airbox at 15psi boost before and now it has a GReddy VMIC kit and Setrab dual 25-row oil cooler with 12psi boost. With the current setup, I still have IAT beyond 63°C after driving uphill using mostly third gear 4000~6000 RPM. Water temp around 90 before engine cut. It was on a particularly hot day (over 90°F) and the road had some large elevation. It’s my concern that having air filters in the hot engine bay and aluminum (not ideal for heat insulation but good for sustaining stress of high boost) IC pipings causes higher IAT. (My IAT sensor reacts slowly too.) It’s particularly tricky because I am running a zenki (pre99) bumper with small frontal area and factory hood. I assume the VMIC + large oil cooler setup makes more sense on a more modified car that provides adequate airflow. (Not a fan of any aftermarket front bumper or hood though...) Of course, many on the forum run without those just fine. Unfortunately I don’t have IAT obtained under the same driving situation pre-VMIC to compare. I would appreciate some advice and please point out if I have some misconceptions. Ryan Well I have no vmic experience but I was under the impression vmic was the best setup. However with with 60s in intake temps I’m not sure what to say. I am seeing 40s to 55s max on a greedy smic at 12lbs boost pushed hard. Heat soak sucks. But hey we haven’t hit 90s yet. 70s/80s max northeast. |
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...4cbe6a1e8a.jpg
Here is the engine bay picture. I believe the resultant high IAT is due to the underflow IC, aluminum piping, and air filters. What's more, A/C condenser is kept so there is even less direct airflow to the IC... The stock undertray blocks the radiator fan from blowing downwards, potentially reducing cooling efficiency. However on a cool day after 3 dyno pulls I get 45℃ IAT. With that being said, I don't think a right-off-shelf VMIC will be an optimum solution that solves all problems immediately. It's still best to design the car as a system, just from my experience. |
Thats a nice looking engine bay Ryan, but I dont like the "hot air" intake. It seems like you should have some sort of insulating shield between the v-mount, and the intake filters.
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Exactly what I am thinking :) Seeing if I can fabricate a heat shield of some kind. Also wondering if I need to replace/relocate the IAT sensor in case of heat soak. Adam, I will share some photos of my canyon run with you later. The road was fantastic ;) |
Originally Posted by adam c
(Post 12274663)
Do you have a second oil cooler? That will help a lot more than you think.
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1 Attachment(s)
Ok guys I found the problem. While wrapping my intercooler with the DEI gold, at the very end I notice something deep in the end tank...
Attachment 749820 There's a fucking kids underwear stuffed in the hot side of the smic! This has caused me a ton of issues with tuning, boost control, IAT issues, etc. Also explains why some days the car is fast as hell and some days where it doesn't want to move. Check your intercoolers guys...and I'll be giving the previous owner an interesting call tomorrow... |
Whoa! Are you for real? How long have you had the car? I’m surprised you haven’t blown the engine.
Similar note. When replacing my radiator I found a wrench socket in my rad fan shroud that had dislodged one fan and was slowly cutting into the back of my rad fins. Also found a bolt bolt in my intake cover. Moral of the story... take a good look at your engine bay after you buy. Glad you found it sooner than later. |
Originally Posted by Aarkaah
(Post 12274743)
Whoa! Are you for real? How long have you had the car? I’m surprised you haven’t blown the engine.
Similar note. When replacing my radiator I found a wrench socket in my rad fan shroud that had dislodged one fan and was slowly cutting into the back of my rad fins. Also found a bolt bolt in my intake cover. Moral of the story... take a good look at your engine bay after you buy. Glad you found it sooner than later. Now I'm wondering if I need to get retuned again, since maybe now things will be different? I'll give my tuner a call first thing in the morning. Usually I don't think to remove the intercooler and radiator or look inside every pipe after buying a car, but I guess you really never know...I'm also surprised the engine didn't blow, and I hate to think of all the extra wear caused by this. All I can picture is maybe the previous owner had the intercooler laying around and his kid stuffed something into it? Who knows. |
Yes, if it was tuned with the underwear clogging the intercooler you should get a retune after removing them. By the way, that RP intercooler is not modified. I would distrust everything the PO ever said at this point.
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No instruction sheet on maintaining an IC afaik, but I pull mine out at least once a year to clean it...inside and out. |
Retune after correcting all items pointed out by folks above. Good luck and Godspeed man. Good catch. You may have just gotten lucky 🍀
as an add on. Do the cleaning as pointed out above. Also run a hairdryer through the unit to see how well it flows and make sure it flows properly without leaks. All bets are off on prior work. Good luck. |
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Originally Posted by Aarkaah
(Post 12274762)
Retune after correcting all items pointed out by folks above. Good luck and Godspeed man. Good catch. You may have just gotten lucky ��
as an add on. Do the cleaning as pointed out above. Also run a hairdryer through the unit to see how well it flows and make sure it flows properly without leaks. All bets are off on prior work. Good luck. I've spent the entire year that I've owned this car undoing and fixing mickey mouse work. The car was a good deal with a nice list of parts, but I kind of wish I just bought a stock car that wasn't messed with. I'll be checking this SMIC really carefully tomorrow before I reinstall it. I had really bad luck on my 94 Supra this month...just happened to get a bad set of valve springs (from a very reputable company) that were slightly out of spec and a "reputable" machine shop that tried to force them in with more mickey mouse shit. Screwed hard from both sides (valve spring company and machine shop), it's been kind of shitty. |
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274769)
I don't think there has been any detonation...the exhaust pops sometimes from running rich and hot but there hasn't been any weird noise or anything. Oddly, the intercooler itself is quite clean, not a drop of oil in it.
I've spent the entire year that I've owned this car undoing and fixing mickey mouse work. The car was a good deal with a nice list of parts, but I kind of wish I just bought a stock car that wasn't messed with. I'll be checking this SMIC really carefully tomorrow before I reinstall it. I had really bad luck on my 94 Supra this month...just happened to get a bad set of valve springs (from a very reputable company) that were slightly out of spec and a "reputable" machine shop that tried to force them in with more mickey mouse shit. Screwed hard from both sides (valve spring company and machine shop), it's been kind of shitty. Hopefully you are out of the woods on this one. Soiled underwear. But clean IC. Ok I couldn’t resist either. B)Run a hairdryer through it man. |
Originally Posted by Aarkaah
(Post 12274776)
Hopefully you are out of the woods on this one. Soiled underwear. But clean IC. Ok I couldn’t resist either. B)Run a hairdryer through it man. Also, I hope the heat from the boost killed whatever bacteria was in that underwear. Edit: I just realized where all the oil went. Everyone should install the IC self cleaning system to soak up oil. |
YEs on the hairdryer. Clean out the IC it may have some “soiled oils” and then blow dry it immediately after and check air flow and seal. Good luck. 👍
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Soiled children's underwear in the intercooler... :lol: It's threads like these that make this forum great!
Glad you found that! Something certainly wasn't adding up. I was starting to think your temp sensor was bad or the stock sensor location was to blame. |
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
I wonder how on earth it got stuck in there in the first place... |
There was a funny (true) story on the forum years ago. Some dipshit decided to wrap a t-shirt around his intake pipe to use as a filter. He revved the engine, and the t-shirt got sucked into the pipe. If I am remembering correctly, the shirt ruined his turbos, and some of it wound up in the intercooler. What a mess. It just goes to show that you cant fix stupid :)
Maybe you bought this car from the same guy :):) lol |
Originally Posted by RW Atelier
(Post 12274794)
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
I wonder how on earth it got stuck in there in the first place... I bet someone put it in there to soak up oil , and forgot about it. |
Originally Posted by RW Atelier
(Post 12274794)
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
I wonder how on earth it got stuck in there in the first place...
Originally Posted by adam c
(Post 12274796)
I bet someone put it in there to soak up oil , and forgot about it.
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Just wanna chime in an additional "Holy Shit". On one hand, hell yeah you found the problem and it was minor. On the other, it makes you wonder about the rest of the P.O.'s work.
lol a greasy pair of Underoos stuffed in the end-tank. That's a new one! Maybe he had some kind of blow-by issue and an intercooler full of motor oil is what made him hack up the IC in the 1st place. :scratch: |
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274740)
There's a fucking kids underwear stuffed in the hot side of the smic! This has caused me a ton of issues with tuning, boost control, IAT issues, etc. Also explains why some days the car is fast as hell and some days where it doesn't want to move.
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274740)
Check your intercoolers guys...
Originally Posted by Natey
(Post 12274824)
lol a greasy pair of Underoos stuffed in the end-tank. That's a new one! Maybe he had some kind of blow-by issue and an intercooler full of motor oil is what made him hack up the IC in the 1st place. :scratch:
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Oops!
Hi guys, I want to apologize for my previous comment on the GReddy VMIC. I made a mistake by reading the IAT when the car is sitting. Yes, 63°C is what I got on a very hot day, stopped by the road, just finished a 20 min drive in the boost. Hope my mistake doesn’t stop anyone from going for a VMIC. |
Result
Just did the same run today, comparable ambient temp and driving conditions. IAT is around 45~47 °C even though I tried to push harder. Did some 2nd through 3rd pulls and not seeing any notable increase in IAT. |
Sounds more like it. You do heat soak though to right? But I assume that clears up almost instantaneously when you get moving?
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I believe so. The sun was very bright on my first drive, making it incredibly hard to read my PFC commander. When idling at stop or hot start, the IAT sensor is literally measuring the heated UIM temp. That heat sometimes cause unsteady idle. I paid more attention today and did not stop at all, but it's reasonable to say that the heat soak will go away quickly once you hit speed.
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Took my smic out to check for old unides and oil pool...all clear but disappointed;(
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Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12274740)
This has caused me a ton of issues with tuning, boost control, IAT issues, etc. Also explains why some days the car is fast as hell and some days where it doesn't want to move.
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wow, I needed a good laugh today, what a bizzare problem! glad it didn't lead to bigger issues!
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Originally Posted by Montego
(Post 12275294)
So I'm curious what are your AIT's now?
When my other project is done in the next couple of months I'll take apart this car and possibly do a pre-emptive rebuild and install my single kit + a vmount. |
Originally Posted by mkiv98
(Post 12275920)
So we just street tuned it again yesterday and it was easy to get it running well within 15 minutes. IAT's are still a little high but better. Running on the freeway in 5th at 80mph was about 38-42C, giving it some boost and keeping speed up around 45, and then sitting at lights or in traffic was still around 52-55.
When my other project is done in the next couple of months I'll take apart this car and possibly do a pre-emptive rebuild and install my single kit + a vmount. Sounds about right. Driving in 80s today and humid. Got about the same range on a Greddy SMIC. Probably need to extend the ducting shroud front area further. And change the iat sensor to a fast reacting one. |
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