Sequential to the Max!
Don't forget the motor and other systems. Turbos alone won't get you to that number. You'll need
- a motor with a good port and a good build
- appropriate fuel system
- a good tune
- appropriate ic setup
- a motor with a good port and a good build
- appropriate fuel system
- a good tune
- appropriate ic setup
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, Florida
thanks for your post
-Alex
Also, fwiw, Dave @ KDR said the highest he has seen was 391 rwhp on stock twins running sequentially. He also said that that particular cars turbos sh*t the bed approximately 300 miles later.
Mentos and Magnums
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,373
Likes: 0
From: FLROIDUH
Back on the old forum before it crashed(around early 2000), Michael Gurgainers(kruf), who use to do rebuilds for alot of ppl on here, dyno'd 401rwhp on stock sequentials. I saw the dyno chart on it back then, but couldn't tell you the first thing about it now. Don't know what conversion was used and I'm sure that played a part. I will say this...I did ride in the car a time or two and it pulled harder than any other stock twin car I ever rode in. I also saw it run at the local drap strip and turn a high 6 1/8mile time. An older gentleman in Tampa, FL purchased the car in 2001 and doesn't really drive it I don't think. I'd love for him to put it back on the dyno and see what the numbers actually are.
Read a few posts above. They used SAE correction (and a really high one at that) which really shouldn't be used on FI engines.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=179
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=179
Thx for the correction. I've never been around any dynos so I don't understand all this correction hoopla. Guess I've find out when I finally get my 20b up and running.
Add More Lightness
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Saratoga, NY
Original Stock Rotary and sequential twins on my 94
All the major reliability mods done FIRST
PFC was dyno tuned by Dave@KDR to 349 rwhp and 302 rwtq at 15psi
That was 20,000 glorious miles ago (75,000 total).
The only thing I didn't do that I still intend to is add the second oil cooler.
Oh, and port the engine and upgrade to BNR twins and rebuild the tranny and upgrade the differential and ... you get the idea.
All the major reliability mods done FIRST
PFC was dyno tuned by Dave@KDR to 349 rwhp and 302 rwtq at 15psi
That was 20,000 glorious miles ago (75,000 total).
The only thing I didn't do that I still intend to is add the second oil cooler.
Oh, and port the engine and upgrade to BNR twins and rebuild the tranny and upgrade the differential and ... you get the idea.
I think the 99 twins with methanol injection and a ported motor will give you realiable 400 rwhp.
That's what I plan on doing in the next 6-9 months.
I have to give props to Defined Autoworks in Pataskala OH. Very talented and dedicated shop.
That's what I plan on doing in the next 6-9 months.
I have to give props to Defined Autoworks in Pataskala OH. Very talented and dedicated shop.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 96
From: Bay Area, CA
The '99 spec twins are really not all that different from the stock twins so I am not sure why you think you will get 400 whp out of them. What boost are you planning on running?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,783
Likes: 642
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
methanol injection has it's place with single turbos and 20+ psi, but not with stock twins. In my opinion of course
I've had that plan for a while. Two reliable shops tell the that is a reacheable and safe goal with the 99 twins. As for methanol injection, there is a whole subforum on the forum about it, and reading it will much more eloquently let you know how methanol will help in this goal as well as reliability. I currently run my stock twins on an untouched reman, open intake, exhaust, fuel, Power FC, Greddy SMIC at 0.85 atm, (Approx 12 lbs?), with 333 rwhp.
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,678
Likes: 96
From: Bay Area, CA
IMHO, '99 spec twins are a nonsensical mod given their price and their minor performance improvement.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,783
Likes: 642
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
I've had that plan for a while. Two reliable shops tell the that is a reacheable and safe goal with the 99 twins. As for methanol injection, there is a whole subforum on the forum about it, and reading it will much more eloquently let you know how methanol will help in this goal as well as reliability. I currently run my stock twins on an untouched reman, open intake, exhaust, fuel, Power FC, Greddy SMIC at 0.85 atm, (Approx 12 lbs?), with 333 rwhp.
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
I'm telling you that you will not make 400 rwhp reliably over a period of time with 99 spec (basically stock) twins. What will happen, is you'll fry the turbos, and possible spin off a compressor nut or two.
I'm very familiar with methanol injection, I've been running an Aquamist system on my FD for years now. With the boost levels that the 99 spec twins are capable of, the full potential of methanol will not be reached.
Replace the 99s with BNRs, and *now* you're talking.
Not trying to break *****, just trying to save you time, aggravation, and cash.
Most importantly cash...BNRs are actually cheaper than BRAND NEW 99 specs. You can find used 99 specs for 1600-2000 on this forum once in a while, but why deal with 99 specs that also deal with boost creep if you don't port the wastegate? BNRs FTW if you stay twins.
ok
[QUOTE=gmonsen;7694172]Galagnu... Now you've gone and done it. My instant reaction to using methanol was that hopefully this is just going to be a race car or at least just a toy and that may well be what you're going for. Now, I need to read the subforum and see what makes sense there.
I constantly wonder why in the process of modding FDs some people make them so unuseable on the street. There ought to be a rule that anyone who mods their car poorly or too much can never speak on the subject of reliability publically. As in, "jeeez, my Rx7 is beautiful and has twice the stock whp, but IT has blown several times." "IT" didn't break. The OWNER broke it.
If you want to make 400whp on sequential twins as some sort of exercise to prove you can do it, fine. If there is some particular reason you need 400whp, pushing twins to the brink of extinction probably is not the best way to get it and you would do better with a single that spools well. If the instant response is most important than go with the BNR setup and live with the whp you get reliably.
Appreciate the info. Looks like I will need to do more research. My car's purpose is to please me, both on street, autocross, and would like to do track events. I guess if push came to shove, I would lean to reliability rather than extremes. So 30 rwhp less may not be a deal killer.
That being said, I do think methanol injection is in my future, not only as a power mod, but for reliability. Having seen a car being tuned with it, I just cannot say how impressed I was. Please dissect the methanol (AI) subforum and see what you think. As long as the methanol system is put together professionally, it should be a great addition to a modded 7.
Not to put Chris on the spot, but on their site, he mentions seeing 99 twins as much as 385, but usually 330-350. I also know he leans more towards conservative and safe tuning. With him as my tuner, I have 333 now on stock twins, non ported motor.
I constantly wonder why in the process of modding FDs some people make them so unuseable on the street. There ought to be a rule that anyone who mods their car poorly or too much can never speak on the subject of reliability publically. As in, "jeeez, my Rx7 is beautiful and has twice the stock whp, but IT has blown several times." "IT" didn't break. The OWNER broke it.
If you want to make 400whp on sequential twins as some sort of exercise to prove you can do it, fine. If there is some particular reason you need 400whp, pushing twins to the brink of extinction probably is not the best way to get it and you would do better with a single that spools well. If the instant response is most important than go with the BNR setup and live with the whp you get reliably.
Appreciate the info. Looks like I will need to do more research. My car's purpose is to please me, both on street, autocross, and would like to do track events. I guess if push came to shove, I would lean to reliability rather than extremes. So 30 rwhp less may not be a deal killer.
That being said, I do think methanol injection is in my future, not only as a power mod, but for reliability. Having seen a car being tuned with it, I just cannot say how impressed I was. Please dissect the methanol (AI) subforum and see what you think. As long as the methanol system is put together professionally, it should be a great addition to a modded 7.
Not to put Chris on the spot, but on their site, he mentions seeing 99 twins as much as 385, but usually 330-350. I also know he leans more towards conservative and safe tuning. With him as my tuner, I have 333 now on stock twins, non ported motor.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
From: El Paso
Well, I technically own two rotary shops myself, one of them pretty well known
I'm telling you that you will not make 400 rwhp reliably over a period of time with 99 spec (basically stock) twins. What will happen, is you'll fry the turbos, and possible spin off a compressor nut or two.
I'm very familiar with methanol injection, I've been running an Aquamist system on my FD for years now. With the boost levels that the 99 spec twins are capable of, the full potential of methanol will not be reached.
Replace the 99s with BNRs, and *now* you're talking.
Not trying to break *****, just trying to save you time, aggravation, and cash.
I'm telling you that you will not make 400 rwhp reliably over a period of time with 99 spec (basically stock) twins. What will happen, is you'll fry the turbos, and possible spin off a compressor nut or two.
I'm very familiar with methanol injection, I've been running an Aquamist system on my FD for years now. With the boost levels that the 99 spec twins are capable of, the full potential of methanol will not be reached.
Replace the 99s with BNRs, and *now* you're talking.
Not trying to break *****, just trying to save you time, aggravation, and cash.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 40
From: CT
I've had that plan for a while. Two reliable shops tell the that is a reacheable and safe goal with the 99 twins. As for methanol injection, there is a whole subforum on the forum about it, and reading it will much more eloquently let you know how methanol will help in this goal as well as reliability. I currently run my stock twins on an untouched reman, open intake, exhaust, fuel, Power FC, Greddy SMIC at 0.85 atm, (Approx 12 lbs?), with 333 rwhp.
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
I also really enjoy the instant power the twins give, and have experienced single turbo's with much more power, but just too much lag.
Do the BNR's give the same power characteristics as the stock twins, both regular and 99 twins?
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 40
From: CT
Galagnu... Now you've gone and done it. My instant reaction to using methanol was that hopefully this is just going to be a race car or at least just a toy and that may well be what you're going for. Now, I need to read the subforum and see what makes sense there.
I constantly wonder why in the process of modding FDs some people make them so unuseable on the street. There ought to be a rule that anyone who mods their car poorly or too much can never speak on the subject of reliability publically. As in, "jeeez, my Rx7 is beautiful and has twice the stock whp, but IT has blown several times." "IT" didn't break. The OWNER broke it.
If you want to make 400whp on sequential twins as some sort of exercise to prove you can do it, fine. If there is some particular reason you need 400whp, pushing twins to the brink of extinction probably is not the best way to get it and you would do better with a single that spools well. If the instant response is most important than go with the BNR setup and live with the whp you get reliably.
Gordon
I constantly wonder why in the process of modding FDs some people make them so unuseable on the street. There ought to be a rule that anyone who mods their car poorly or too much can never speak on the subject of reliability publically. As in, "jeeez, my Rx7 is beautiful and has twice the stock whp, but IT has blown several times." "IT" didn't break. The OWNER broke it.
If you want to make 400whp on sequential twins as some sort of exercise to prove you can do it, fine. If there is some particular reason you need 400whp, pushing twins to the brink of extinction probably is not the best way to get it and you would do better with a single that spools well. If the instant response is most important than go with the BNR setup and live with the whp you get reliably.
Gordon
oh my god are we back to using logic on this forum. jeeze what abreath of fresh air.
.
I Give!
Appreciate the info. Looks like I will need to do more research. My car's purpose is to please me, both on street, autocross, and would like to do track events. I guess if push came to shove, I would lean to reliability rather than extremes. So 30 rwhp less may not be a deal killer.
That being said, I do think methanol injection is in my future, not only as a power mod, but for reliability. Having seen a car being tuned with it, I just cannot say how impressed I was. Please dissect the methanol (AI) subforum and see what you think. As long as the methanol system is put together professionally, it should be a great addition to a modded 7.
Not to put Chris on the spot, but on their site, he mentions seeing 99 twins as much as 385, but usually 330-350. I also know he leans more towards conservative and safe tuning. With him as my tuner, I have 333 now on stock twins, non ported motor.
Perhaps you did not read what I wrote above. It may have been lost in my responce to gmonsen's post. Also, reiterating what people with experience have told me is not illogical. As I said, I will be doing more research before making a decision.
you can make 380+ on 99 spec twin...that reliability factor only inclues the motor NOT the turbos...BNR's are the only twins that can withstand hi-boosting long term because of their 360 degree thrust bearings and reverse threaded compressor wheel nuts.
I think its a terrible idea trying to run 400hp on stock ports as well
I think its a terrible idea trying to run 400hp on stock ports as well
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
you can make 380+ on 99 spec twin...that reliability factor only inclues the motor NOT the turbos...BNR's are the only twins that can withstand hi-boosting long term because of their 360 degree thrust bearings and reverse threaded compressor wheel nuts.
I think its a terrible idea trying to run 400hp on stock ports as well
I think its a terrible idea trying to run 400hp on stock ports as well
I'm just thinking of installing them
Thanks
Jon
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 986
Likes: 0
From: Okayama - Japan
Ive got a magazine (last years Japanese circuit attack times and cars) here with the FAM speed car. They say its running stock (original) twins which have been overhauled and a running a high flow turbines to increase air flow. 850cc injectors. stock fuel pump.
It even still has original radiator and original cat.
The car has 499ps.
Ive also got the Auto Staff car, its running normal twins with 380ps.
It even still has original radiator and original cat.
The car has 499ps.
Ive also got the Auto Staff car, its running normal twins with 380ps.
