renesis in an fd?
 

anyone stick a renesis motor in an fd yet?

I don't really see the point.

~300whp, smog legal, and more torque than any other 2-rotor.
not to mention better fuel economy.

Still a waste of time and money. The FD engine can do 300hp in its sleep with bad plugs.

I have seen a japaness article about a tuner overseas fuseing two renesis engines together for a 4 rotor and installing it in a fd, but it still didn't make over 450rwhp.

^Damn thats a shame. Probably a lot of time and money put into that project with no special results.

living in california, this may seem like an awesome option... 300WHP NA is also tempting...along with the smog legalities... hrm....

it'll be turbo, but i'd go to the ref to get the # before i put the turbo on.

rocking, why would you think it's a waste of time and money? this isn't about hp, it's about overall powerband, fuel economy, smog, etc...

if all i wanted was power i'd just turn up the boost on my t66.

more torque than any 2 2rotor?

what, are you nuts?

more torque than any n/a 2 rotor, sure, but less torque than even the shittiest TII.

other than you can get 230 hp to the flywheel (180-200whp) in n/a form stock and with the higher torque that comes with it.

and higher hp and tq with lower boost levels than the REW as well as lower emissions and better fuel economy (flame me!)

If I had the money I'd do it!

Puertorricans have been able to extract 450 hp out of it so whoever did that 4-rotor didn't tune it worth a crap.

were you just not paying attention or what? it's gonna be turbo. read before you reply next time.

NVM, i dont reed good

If the price was reasonable, id do it.

13B-REW's are nightmares.

waste of time..i'm a tech at mazda and i abosolutly hate the rx-8 that motor is soo under powered! To me i dont think the rx-8 deserves the right to wear a RX badge when you think RX you think pure sports car not a 4 seater tourer. the Mazda 6 has better power than the rx-8 and also handles amazing! and thats a 4 door family car! putting rx-8 motor in a fd would be a waste of time i think just me .02

even if it was turbo charged it would never make the amount of power a 13b-rew would make. Also you think that rx-8 wil pass smog after you do turbo it? Some guys are just passing smog as it is with just exhaust and intake and simple bolt-ons on thier rx-8

don;t forget when u turbo it that means more gasses coing out, managemnt that you have tune perfectly, etc..

What are you smokin? The 6 body rolls like a BOAT. I auto-xed with one, and I HATED it. It was flopping ALL OVER the place. And I've beatin the CRAP out of an RX-8, and from all the cars I've driven, the RX-8 is probably THE best handling car I've EVER driven. The only reason I'd say it's handling qualities are better than the FD is b/c you can push the RX-8 to 10 outta 10 of it's limits, and it'll still stick. It's underpowered and predictable. The FD is a nightmare waiting to happen at anything above 7/10s of what it can do. It's practically an untamable beast...

you dont buy an rx7 for fuel economy. these motors can be build in upwards of 600whp thats perfectly fine, and most of us could never afford that anyway. rotary engines are dirty polluting machines so for them to make a rotary enging to be able to pass emissions must have been detuned and altered to not perform well (hense the wimpy power it makes). greddy has a turbo kit for the rx8 thats smog legal but it still sucked on the dyno!

they made the car i believe as a statement that it could be done again and be clean not to make globs of power. dont get me wrong the things are great handling yet if you buy it dont look for big power just drive it in the twisties and enjoy the powerband it has.

Actually, the main reason Mazda made the RX-8 as such was to reintroduce the rotary, and establish it's reliability as a solid platform. After the FD's blunder, the rotary was notoriously known for it's unreliability (which a lot of credit has to be due to improperly/undertrained Mazda techs that couldn't accurately diagnose problems w/ the 13B-REW).

In Japan, where the FD DID have a good repuation and sold very well for over a decade, Mazda came out w/ a Mazdaspeed version of the RX-8 that was supercharged. Only a few units were made, but they sold like hotcakes.

In short, Mazda has NO plans to force induce the rotary for quite a while until they undo the damaged rep of the rotary from the FD, and establish beyond a doubt that the rotary is and can be reliable and environmentally friendly.

~Ramy

I sense a long ass debate coming on

I've tossed the idea around with a few friends before. The 13B-REW is a nightmare, and if I went through the pain and drama of a blown engine, a N/A solution wouldn't sound too bad.

The upside would be less weight (less nonsense on the longblock), the ability to use the RX-8's 6-speed (assuming custom fabrication could make it work) and the reliability that comes with dumping the turbos and its overcomplicated setup.

The obvious downside is the loss of power and torque. The weight loss going to a Renesis would not make up for this.

Putting a turbo on the Renesis (at this point in time) just crapped all over the biggest draw to the concept. The aftermarket engine management available at the moment is immature at best.

There was a ton of talk about this when the RX-8 was first released. IIRC one of the milestones to over come included something special about the ECU wiring. Either way there is already a ton of debate about this subject and as far as I know it hasn't been done yet.

I suppose you've never heard of the RX-4 Wagon. Hmm? Didn't think so. So, I guess all the Tech's at Mazda really ARE dolts...dude, if you don't realize the beauty of the RX-8, you don't deserve a seat on the Mazda throne.

Oh no! It's underpowered! Oh no, you can control it under ANY circumstance! Back end comes out? You can control it, with very limited skill! Understeer? You can control it, with very limited skill! Oh, whats that? You pulled the e-brake going 30mph? Odd, you can completely control the car. No spin-outs here. The suspension geometry on the RX-8 is amazing, hands down.

If you think the Mazda 6 has more power then RX-8...ROFL. ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL.

I'm pretty sure ALL modded turbo cars have problems passing emissions. The RX-8 is not different...they didn't make a new breed of turbos just for it. And..ALL turbo management systems should be tuned "perfectly" .... the RX-8 is not special here. I suppose you think just because you put some 3mm seals on an FD, you are free to tune to whatever you feel like doing. NO.

i got a friend stuffing in RX7 seals into Renesis. Greddy Bolt on turbo kit with large front mount IC.
the progress is still on the way. horse power is unknown.
he's doing that because he blew his stock renesis with greddy bolt on.

the advantage of going that... is he still has his traction control and stability stuff usable...
he has a comfy car with almost the powerful stuff in RX7...

You have anything to support this?

I never though about why Mazda brought back the 8 the way it is till you posted that. It makes snece. But I think the biggest problem with the rotary programs is MNOA doesn't support it. I can't remeber when was the last time I saw a RX-8 commercial.

Now I was think about this swap also. There is finally ECU reflash capabilities now, but if you where looking for a swap you be better with a aftermarket type ECU. More power have been extracted out of the Renesis this way (yes about 300 whp) But with the original ECU reflashed, catback and intake 235 whp were achived just recently. The new Greddy Turbo kit (Emanage Ultimate) has improved also a few people have made the original kit a lot better by change some of the wiring and vacumm around.

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/466, but most of the info I got about the Japanese Mazdaspeed RX-8 was from a Japanese magazine. I can't recall for the life of me which one. I have like 80 of 'em sitting in my room lol.

if it's some to say they make a mistake that would be me yes i forgot about the rx wagen and the rx-3 and such.

and i didn;t mean the mazda speed 6 has better handling than the rx-8 the rx-8 has amazing i;m just talkin in a package the mazda 6 is a greater car i thin especially with the mazda speed suspension you can from the dealer for the speed 6 now.

i just feel when i drive the rx-8 it's not a tru sports car thats all

Thanks never knew about this. Pettit Racing supercharger should be nice too.

NP :) VERY VERY early on, w/ the RX-8s release in the US, there were a few (like 2) actual releases from Mazda itself, both about the (future of the) RX-8, and plans (if any) for the RX-7. Those are all I really pay attention to, given that everything else is speculation. ;)

Yea Pettit doesn't half-a$$ anything, so I'd expect it to come out very nice. But I also expect it not to make much power, given that Pettit's philosophy has long been reliability over max power output :)

~Ramy

i would have liked to see mazda put seq twins on their renesis if its so good. then it would be alot easier to compare the two engines. the reason its more reliable is because it doesnt have all the mess of the turbo setup. ive heard people running into alot of problems with the apex seals when they do turbo them. if mazda really thinks this renesis is a true performance platform why in the hell didnt they put it in a real two door sportscar? the rx8 is just fugly. if your only looking to get minimal performance with NO turbo then try swapping it into a 7. at least it would be more reliable, and the renesis would finally have a better home.

you bumped your head. the fd is NOT the rx8. and my ported, turbo'd renesis will NOT perform like the stock 160-185 (depending on what mood the computer is in that day) motor.

you mentioned it being underpowered, but mine will do almost twice the whp as a stock engine.

the renny almost burns as clean without a cat as the rew does with a cat.

the oil pan is more shallow, so i can mount the engine a bit lower in the chassis to improve handling.

and are you uneducated enough to think a turbine wheel has any significant effect on emissions? come on, you said you were a tech.

and moving back to power, keep in mind i drive a t66-powered fd. i have as much power as i want. this isn't about power.

thanks,
you're the only person that even addressed the original question :p:

^^lol

and the Mazdaspeed6 handles great, but it can't match the RX-8.

The supercharged 8's were just mules. That's not a real production model. Mazda would never have went through the emissions testing to make it a road legal model without releasing more of them. Doesn't make financial sense.

With the high compression rotors of the renesis you'll be retarding timing just to keep the motor from detonating. The motor mounts aren't the same. The intake was optimized for NA. I don't think it makes much sense changing it over. On the emissions side your just eliminating overlap with the side ports, your still injecting oil. Without a cat your emisions will still suck.

Also fuel economy you have to be kidding. I make better fuel economy in my FD than my friend makes in his 8 with a gentle foot.

1. I'd love to see a turbo Renesis motor in an FD. Zero overlap is a great idea for forced induction. I'd rather supercharge the Renesis for the torque and throttle response, but a turbocharger really cleans up the rotary's exhaust sound.


2. If you're looking to do something different, Dave, I hear that you've got the fab skills to install one of these: www.rotamax.com . They're not proven yet, but the design looks amazing on paper.


-s-

a tv antenna?

fritts... again, i'm not asking for anyone's opinions on the renesis motor. i asked if it had been done.

and the renesis is amuch more efficient engine. no denying it. what on earth makes you think it can't match the fuel economy of the rew? saying your 7 gets better gas milage than someone else's 8 is just lame. they're not the same car. a toyota corolla gets better gas milage than a hummer too.

sorry, the correct link is http://www.rotamax.net/ , it's an all-aluminum rotary engine, with a lot of improvements over Mazda's design. I've heard that it's direct-injected , but haven't seen proof of that yet. Their website has tons of specs, detailed drawings & dimensions for installation, etc...


-s-

building mounts is easy. the flywheel and mating it to the transmission is the part i'd have to have done somewhere.

Your comparison is the one that's off. Both engines are the same displacements same type of operation. From info on the 8 forum my AFR ratios are nearly the same except for WOT where the renesis is leaner (based on my tuning). Yet they get very different MPG. Explain to me how the renesis is more efficient. Is the side ports? I don't think so.

One note worthy fact is that it uses lighter rotors then the 13B-REW and obviously since it's NA it runs higher compression.

actually, it is. zero overlap

but you're still comparing an rx7 to an rx8. don't.

Mazdatrix toyed with the idea when the 8 first came out but as fare as I know they never got their hands on a Renesis engine. I don't know what's the matter with some people. They sound like grumpy old people tht hate change. SOme of you are being stupid! Have you checked the prices of engine parts lately? My next engine will consist of as my Renesis parrts as possible. I suppose haters will just drop in a LS1 motor instead when they can't afford FD parts. Honda shops make drop in kits for newer and better engines. If we can get a legal turbo kit and the Renesis burns cleaner and it's cheaper, then what's wrong with that?

i used the renny e-shaft and stationaries in my fd motor.

yep, they're in my FC motor too.

nice parts. :D

i was going to use the renesis eshaft too cause it was lighter and cheaper but making it fit according to mazdatrix would be a problem. you'd end up spending about the same ammount for a regular fd one but it'd be lighter. i thought you already had a rx8 motor in your fd guitarjunkie. if not what was that motor i saw you selling not so long ago.

some people are stupid..no matter how much hp you get out of a 4 rotor fd or a 4 rotor fc it's defintley not a waste of time and money as long as it's built right..dont get me wrong im not a big fan of he rx-8 body..but the motor is good..you could get a renesis do be just as quick as any rotary motor as long as it's built right..

....yeah...now we're getting somewhere...who has made a 2-stage turbocharged 4-rotor Renesis and installed it in a FD? ...oops am I getting carried away?

yeah, FD's are so superior to my poor RX8. I don't know why a lot of third gen owners feel the need to assert that their car is so much better than mine. They are just different. Yours might be faster out of the box, but look at the time you have had to develop an aftermarket. I can take 3 friends in mine. You could only do that in your with people hanging onto the spoiler and stuffed into the hatch.

We are members of the same family.

did you remember to open up the oil inlet on the rear stationary so it lines up?

you could buy my renny setup. bolt-in 300+ whp

link?

...it doesnt get better fuel economy than an rx7.

the car doesn't, but the engine does. it's noticably more efficient. you gotta remember the rx8 is a few hundred pounds heavier than the previous cars, and it's not geared for fuel economy: ~4500rpm @ 85mph, compared to the fd tranny and final drive which puts you somewhere around 3300ish rpm for the same vehicle speed. and the ported renesis gets better fuel economy than the stock renesis!!


Renesisfury
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hlight=renesis

if you're interested, i'll figure out a price for what you'd need. if it's goin in an rx8, you obviously wouldn't need the $1200 tranny (unless you just wanted a spare), ecu, and some other stuff. and i'll figure out what to knock off if you want to trade your stock engine in too.