Reliability
 

This is my first post on the forum and I do not own an rx-7 yet but im in the process. I have to sell my Civic Si first. But anyway, I was wanting to know how reliable the 3rd gen rx-7's are? Ive tried to read all I can on them and find several common problems with these cars. Can I rely on one for long trips? Will I continuously have these constant problems? If someone could just give me a heads up of what I should look for when buying one. Im looking at buying a 1993 with 59,000 miles. It appears to have no modifications done to it. Here is the link.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...=en&cardist=68

I appreciate this help. I did a search and didnt find a post which asked everything I wanted to know so I started a new one. My apologies if there are already post like this one.

1) First and foremost you need to inspect everything and get all details about the car.

2) Get a compression check on the engine. Make sure it is in the 90's and above for reliability on all facings.

3) Next you need to install a downpipe 3".

4) Aluminum AST is a must.

5) Get a new radiator with aluminum end tanks. If you keep the stock radiator you need to goto a coolant mixture of 85-14-1. That is "85% Water-14%-Antifreeze-1%Water Wetter." That will keep your car Whistling Dixie. I run that year round with no problems. And my temps are rather low. When I get home sometimes after boosting it really hard I can pop the hood and put my hand on my UIM (Upper Intake Manifold) and it warm to the touch not HOT but warm.

6) Get a boost controller. I have an Apexi AVC-R. I set my daily driving boost to 6lbs MAX. It helps to keep stress, and heat off of your engine and it feels like an NA car. Then I have a second setting for my 10-9.5-10 boost pattern for when you need to play. My car has the stock sequential setup. I have a write up on the boost settings for the AVC-R.

7) Check Oil Level Every Week!!!!! That is a must.

8) Change oil every 2,000 miles. Which will be frequently. I use penzoil 10W-40 regular oil.

9) Change your spark plugs and wires every 15,000 miles.
***If you want.*** You could install an MSD ignition box to make sure all your gasses are burned in the combustion chamber or nearly all. Andit helps to get a little more power out there as well.

10) When you do an oil change. At every oil change use "gunks" Engine Flush. It will bust the carbon deposits out of your engine every time. Keep your seals nice and clean. I know this because I have done it every oil change and when I did a spark plug change I put a small mirror up to the hole and shined a flashlight inside. It was nice and shiney in there for the most part. It looked very healthy. THat is why I have never had problems with my rotary engines.

11) Get a Boost, Water Temp Guage. I also have a volts guage for my system to help me know when my alternator or battery might be on the way out since the car doesn't come with one. You need a Boost guage to verify your Boost pattern. You need a Water Temp guage to see exactly what your system is cooling to.

12) Best maintenance to your car is preventative maintenance. You will head off all problems this way all the time. I get underneath the hood of my car every day to make sure everything is in check. I have found things that needed repairing that were minor but could have lead to a catastrophic catastrophy.

--------------------------------------

This is what I have done to my car. I daily drive my FD every where I go. I bought her last september and I have put 19,040 miles on her with no problems. I have taken her to Norfolk Virginia countless times from Greensboro NC. 4-5 hour drive each way. I have taken her to Flordia twice. Need I say more?

In mostly stock form except for the AST (Aluminum Air Seperator Tank) and 3" Down pipe and Apexi AVC-R boost controller and the boost turned down to roughly NA specs she is a very reliable car. I have a '78 that is March of 1978 RX-7 she has alittle over 550,000 miles on the original engine. I just recently pulled the engine even though it was still running to tear it apart and inspect it. I am going to get a rebuild on the engine and put it back in. I keep up this maintenance schedual I have written above and in another thread. To me my rotary powered cars will outlast their piston engined counterparts. I know this becouse I am very meticulous about my cars. I am going for the record of 200,000 miles out of my FD's Engine. I have it documented.


Well I hope this will help. It certaintly has me.


Haha where at in NC are you friend?

Welcome to the forum. The search police will be following shortly. I say screw 'em here some good info for you to know!

BTW if you are going to sell your civic PM me. I need a car that is good on gas.

Thanks a lot for that info. That was exactly what I was wanting. I heard a lot of how these engines heat up quick and can cause the turbos to go out easily. I appreciate your help. Hopefully my car will be sold this week or next and I can buy my rx-7. Im really excited. I absolutely love the motor and body style of the 3rd gen rx-7. The interior is the only thing im not in love with. Some parts of it just look to old fashioned to me. I guess ill get over that though.

At first I could not believe you said this, the interior is years ahead of its time, but then I remember my first impression was similar. It was the chrome rings around the gauges. It's funny though, now I love the chrome rings, but I can't say why. I guess it just grows on you.

The red interior in the car you are looking at is a bit much, but then again Porche still offers the combination.

Bahah, I was looking at the same car.

Yea, I truly want a black rx-7 with the black leather. I cant find one that hasnt been messed with. I want something that hasnt been raced a lot. Also, it must have 70000 miles or under for me to buy it.

umm what did u mean use gunks? i never heard of that

Also, what is the deal with making sure the car warms up and when you turn it off, let it cool down before cranking again or something like that? This will be my turbo vehicle so I am very curious and find it to be very important to know this information. I hope im not bothering any of you with these questions. Thanks

"gunk" its a brand of engine flush ... from autozone or advance autoparts I think. I can't remember which it is. But it is a brand.


About the car warming up before you shut it down. It is so you don't flood the car.

You must have missed the FAQ thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68640

Ayup. In fact, make sure the FD you buy isn't the first FD you see in its mileage/condition. I thought mine was much nicer than it turned out to be. Only by seeing/driving a better one (with higher mileage, as it was) did I realize I misjudged it some.

Yep. Mileage alone means nothing. Also be sure to witness it cold start and look for signs of coolant seal failure, which will not show on a compression test.

I agree that the downpipe is important. Not needed immediately, but at the first reasonable opportunity.

Well, something should be done about the original AST. You can install an elimination kit, a new(er) stock AST, or an aluminum AST. A new stock AST is pretty cheap and will go for another 60k.

The aluminum radiators are nice, and a relatively safe solution, but there's not a whole lot wrong with the stock radiator. A new or low mileage stock rad is a good alternative to spending $300+ on an aluminum one. If anything, start by replacing all of the coolant hoses first, then spending the leftovers on the radiator.

The key to keeping cooling temps down is in fan control. The stock fans are set to turn on relatively infrequently. You can rewire the fans for manual control, or set them for a lower threshold by swapping out a 2nd gen RX-7 or Miata thermoswitch. Combined with a water temp gauge, this is a very good system for monitoring and preventing overheats.

The other moral to the boost story is to not turn up the boost until you know the car, have done all the maintenance, and have the proper tuning/fuel/etc already in place. Get the boost gauge installed, and watch it like a hawk at first to make sure it isn't boosting too high or too low. 10psi is normal, 11psi is a maximum.

Def check it, but some don't eat much oil. Mine eats nearly none b/t oil changes.

It's been said that boosted rotary engines tend not to collect carbon. It's more of a problem on NAs. So in other words, most FD owners don't do this Engine Flush step.

If you're accustomed to the bulletproof running of a civic, prepare for more thorough maintenance and more attention to the condition and running of your car. Hondas forgive and forget, which is because they were designed as a basic passenger car. RX-7s were built like racecars, which is to say that components will fail more frequently and not last as long. I would keep that civic or at least have a reliable daily driver just so you won't be tempted to cut corners on the FD maintenance and problem solving.

Dave

Rotarys reliable? :rlaugh:gauges,windows,relays,sensors............. . theres always something going wrong with them. if you want to have honda reliablity and dont want to spend alot of time with not knowing whats wrong with your car,dont get a FD go with honda. But dont get me wrong when the FD is running perfect, My god It's a great car and ooo so fast. get ready for the flaming!!

get a turbo timer and then no worries hehe

Sorry bro, but I'm already at 206,xxx Miles :)

Stock AST, stock downpipe (but it's been replaced a few times with a stock ones from Mazda).

No boost gauge, no water temp gauge, totally stock.

1 out of how many? and probably not mods?

Hmmm this is a lot to think about. Right now I can not afford to have 2 cars in case something does go wrong with the FD (if i get one). It would be my only car. I have a truck I can drive if I have no other option but its not mine. Basically im only concerned about this FD getting this stuff done and being reliable enough for my senior beach trip this summer. This car has to take me and a friend, with our crap, about 300 miles away, drive us around down there, and back with no problems which could cause me to be without a car. You guys think the FD is capable if I get the boost guage, water temp gauge, radiator, replace my hoses, change oil, and change spark plugs and wires?

I really dont see why it wouldnt last for a road trip just thouroughly inspect the car test drive it make sure its all there.

As long as you pack light, it should be fine. You'll see when you take it for a test drive.

But this is one of the last cars I would choose if the word 'reliability' and 'budget' are used in the same sentence. Even though it CAN run flawlessly, so can any car. FDs just don't do it as often as other cars. It takes a lot of effort to bring the reliability to a very high level.

Dave

U da MAN !

We were discussing this on another thread. What's your secret?

I replaced my stock AST with a metal one. The plastic one was still in perfect shape, but I kept it.....thought the switch was a sensible precaution.

I keep meaning to replace the pre-cat, but haven't gotten around to it. Now in recent years, the 3 mod rule and the thinking on boost spikes seems to have changed, so I'm having second thoughts about going to a downpipe. Sounds like you caught your pre-cat clogs early. If I get one, I'm going to be tempted to finally go to a downpipe. But it's hard to argue with your kind of success. I'd love to hear more, especially about your maintenance routine / schedule.

I can't take all the credit :) But I've always had great success with rotaries. Never had a blown one on me yet (knock on wood!).

The previous owner bought the car brand new, and he always did all the basic stuff and kept it 'smog passable.' No mods. And the stock pre-cat was always kept 'in shape.' (Replaced with stock Mazda comps, same with the Cat/airpump etc).

Also, he always used something in the gas tank (sometimes pre-mix), sometimes Seafoam, etc etc. I swear by the stuff (or premix). I think it helps keep the engine 'clean'/carbon free.

Other things, he didn't rag on the car, and neither do I. I think it's PLENTY fast 99% of the time. The other 1% I usually can reign myself in.

Always warmed up/cooled down. Easiest way to kill a rotary I think. Get in and jump on the boost = short time before rebuild.

I had my Turbo II up to 185,000 KM's and it was really strong (no issues). I don't see why the FD shouldn't last just as long.

I do plan to mod my car however, and I think that will probably set it into 'rebuild' mode. Also, 200,000 Miles isn't THAT much. It's only 20K miles a year. That's nothing actually.

Sorry for the long post..

jp

:blah: I don't know what to say..lol


:( You have just started and arms race between us! The first one to 300,000 wins... haha ;)

Thats cool! I hope to get there one day! :bigok:

I'd say 200k is high mileage for any car. For an FD engine? I'm ready to call you the Jesus of Rotaries. I do much of what you do....the warm ups and cool downs.
I also open the hood after a drive as often as I can. I recently looked at my turbo hoses and they're still soft and pliable. So, I'm pleased with how things are going. I'm only at 33,950 miles, so I've got nothing to brag about except that the car has run with no serious problems.
I've never used that Seafoam stuff, but now I'll have to investigate it. Frequent coolant and fuel filter changes are a priority for me. All oil changes have been under 3,000 miles.
Other than that, my only new trick is that I've stopped using fuel injector cleaner and switched to exclusive use of one of the top tier gas brands......shell, chevron, etc. Have you heard about that? At the urging of BMW and some others, some gas companies have agreed to meet a new (increased) standard for detergents in their prem. gas. If I remember correctly, the URL is www.toptiergas.com
The website explains what it's all about.

Oh yeah, always running 94 Octane gas (in town, sometimes it's hard to find 'on the road'). I don't know if that helps or not, but my 'gut' tells me it's worth it.

Also, the vacum hoses have been done, as have the fuel filter changes (regularily). The suspension is starting to get 'soft' so it's probably a good time to get in on that bushing group buy and re-do them and the pillow balls/bushings. Other than that, I'm very happy with it, as I've been happy with all my rotaries in the past.

Anyone have a guess at what the average loan value of a 93-95 rx-7 would be? The one im looking at is a1993 with 59,000 miles. Think I could get a $13,000 loan for the car? I know the KBB value is over $14,000. Just something im worried about. A lot of people are telling me i shouldnt get one of these because they are afraid i will have too much trouble with it. Do you guys truly have that much trouble with them? How many times a year are you left without a car due to repairs?

hmm...i paid $13k for my car with 110k milage... had it for 2 weeks and now it's up for a rebuild.. there's no price too expensive when paying for a used FD no matter the milage... it could've been owned by some old dude who drove it daily and racked up the milage yet cared for it, or it could've been owned by some young schmuck that drove it hard with little milage...
my 2cents

1st). It depends on your relationship with your banker. Most bankers would probably do about 10k or 11k for the FD you're asking about. But there are alternatives...Capital One Auto Finance - they can approve you online. I did this with my current purchase of a 93 FD with 26,000 original miles and I paid 18k for it. Even my banker that I've dealt with for years wouldn't make that stretch. I used Capital One and got approved for 20k in about 5 minutes time. They sent me a blank check in the mail (I had to spend at least 7,500 and no more than my approved amount of 20k) and I just made the check out to the guy I bought the car from...easy. They APR is a little steep for a used car. Mine was set at 8.5%. I would check into that.

2nd) I'm a sucker for punishment and I like a challenge. I bought a 2000 Ducati 748 Superbike brand new in 2000 after everyone said Ducatis break down all the time. I've taken the thing 400 miles away to Panama City Beach, FL several times with my wife on the back and haven't had any problems. So I looked at buying an FD the same way. Things happen and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it, but mostly it's because people abuse things to the extreme before they learn how to take care of them. Learn the car and study, study, study the FD shop manual.

All that being said, as much as I would like for you to own a FD I would not have one as my only car. I am fortunate enough that I can afford to maintain one and I still would not have one as my only car. Plus, I just went to the RX7 Rally up at Deals Gap, NC this weekend and drove about 800 miles and got about 17mpg!! So you have to have a budget for gas to. This car sucks more gas than my 425hp GT that I just got rid of. You need a good backup budget and gas budget just in case. Just my .02. ;) -Brad

Well with paying the car payment and insurance I should have extra cash but im not sure how much extra would be necessary for this car hehe. I would think if I set aside 200 a month I would have enough, right? This is after I do the basic stuff (change oil, change hoses, change fuel filter, etc).

The best thing you can buy for your FD as far as reliabilityis concerned, is a daily driver... ;)

AAAaaah! I want one so bad but cant afford insurance on both the cars and payments. I dont know what to do. There has to be something I can do... I gotta have one. I've dreamed of owning one for the longest time now.

general rule of thumb...if you can't afford it, don't buy it. i'm not trying to discourage you or anything...but do know what you're buying into

realisticaly, if you can't afford the insurance and paymetns on two cars, you probably wont be able to afford the FD on it's own. FD's require alot more maintenance and when parts break, it is not cheap. if you do go cheap, then it will cost you twice as much in the future.

I can afford the car and insurance no problem. Im just having trouble judging how much trouble the car will actually be for me. I believe it is going to be completely random and I have no way of telling until I just try it. I think im going to try it and hope for the best. I really want an rx-7 bad and I know I can make payments and insurance with no problem. It should only be a little higher than my 2002 Civic Si. Im calling to confirm some stuff tomorrow and if the bank will allow me to borrow the amount I need im going to give it my all to get the car. I think if i treat this car well and actually use my brain while driving it then it will be ok. I tend to have a lead foot but with a car like this I believe I can hold myself back knowing that if I dont, I have no car. I appreciate all your comments on this.

There's no set amount, but I would say that $200 extra per month put back and saved for a rainy day would be a great start.

Try looking at it this way...it's like gambling with a twist, the favor lies with the car. You put a buck or two into and it will "pay" out a little at a time with smiles on your face from the rush of the drive. But just as soon as you think you've got everything down pat and you've learn to beat the odds...you're sent home in a taxi and explaining to your wife/girlfriend how Christmas is gonna be tight this year. :pokeowned

the parts for my 2002 civic si werent cheap either because that isnt a popular car. very few of them actually sold. the koyo radiator for them were identical in price and the turbo kits for the rx-7's are actually cheaper. also, to replace the full engine is cheaper on the rx-7 than my civic si.

well im only 17. if all else fails and I cant afford to keep the car running, ill cancel insurance and just fix it. i will then sell it and be done. ill accept the loss of money and go back to a honda. i think that since i really want one of these i should atleast give it a shot. you only live once...why not take the risk and so what if i lose some money. its not the end of the world. i have no one to support other than myself.

then you shouldn't get one....
or if your parents really love you and are willing to take the financial head-ache of owning an FD... go for it

/\ But the "need to" and "have to" are totally different issues. In other words you'd probably never need to replace or rebuild the engine in the Civic si but the chances that you'll have to in the RX7 are much much greater. Remember, race car vs. passenger car.

I not trying to discourage you either but I'd hate to see someone of your age on this forum talking about how they wish they could be driving around with their friends on Friday and Saturday nights but they're waiting on the rebuild to become complete and don't have a backup ride. What are you like 18 or so? I was 15 when the 3rd Gen came out in 93 and just bought my first one this year. If you buy one, GREAT! But don't rush into anything rash...you've got plenty of time to own a nice FD. ;) Good Luck Man.

they will co-sign for me but i must pay everything for it. i work 37 hours a week and i believe that since i work that much and attend school full time and everything i deserve the car i want. seems fair to me.

Ive been through a POS car before. i owned a 2000 zx2 once. I did 2 engine rebuilds, front right cv axle, 3 transmissions, 2 clutches, and normal maintenance. there is no way the rx-7 requires that much work. all of this happened in a years time...

we're about the same age...and i've said it once, and i'll it again...now that i'm older, more knowledgable with rotary turbo engines, financially stable, and SINGLE :bigok:, i've taken the part of actually owning an FD.

my friends say "you spent 13k on a used car? and it was broken? WTH is wrong with you!?" or "your FD's gonna break down in 20-30k miles" or "$13k + $5500 for a rebuilt engine? and all that is CASH? you should've gotten a 350z or a G35"
i must say that they just don't understand. sure i could've gotten something NEW with warranty... but hey...the first car i ever liked was an 87 T2, then eventually an FD when they first came out...

sorry guys if it seems im being stubborn or ill with you. i know what you are trying to do for me. you thinking of what all i could lose from this and you've probably been in this situation before yourself. Its just after so much work and effort you kinda want the reward sooner or later. you get tired of promises or hope.

/\ Well then go fo it! Just read the 3rd Gen Faq thread completely first before you make a final decision. Once again Good Luck! -Brad

3rd Gen Faq:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/faq-3rd-gen-other-useful-links-68640/

Exactly! My parents are telling me im crazy for wanting to buy a car that is 11-13 years old and paying so much for it. They say I should get something new. I understand that and all but thats not what I want. Im willing to make the sacrifice I believe. I absolutely love the FD's. I would take one over a skyline anyday. I would take one over supras, 300z's, corvettes, vipers, etc. This car is just something i really want. In the end I believe "the juice is worth the squeeze."

+1

take in all that you must...

I hear ya. The Financially Stable Part: I'm married and have two sons (2year old and 11 week old) and I was always told that if you're waiting to have kids until you're financially stable you'll never have kids. Well that maybe be true but it damn sure doesn't hurt to have a little money for diapers, formula, food, clothes, bottles, carseats, bibs, doctors, medicine, toys and etc. I guess the same applies to FDs with: ASTs, turbos, intakes, hoses, valves, solenoids, downpipes, exhaust, boost leak here, boost creep there, boost spike everywhere :wallbash: It's all good though. :icon_tup:

ha! you live the life i want... wife, kids, FD :bigok:

Listen, you sound like you're a pretty smart guy so I'm sure you'll make the best decision that fits you...it's not like you're deciding on whether or not to be a Professional Base Jumper or a guy that makes pocket protectors for a living. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's just a car :eek:

Anyway, make sure your parents understand this car as well. Yes it's a 13 year old car but made with today's technology in mind. The problem is, there just wasn't enough technology available for what Mazda wanted the car to be back then. Today, all that technology exists. You can upgrade the FD to be one of the best sport cars on the road. Far better than Vettes, 350z, Supra, and all the German and Italian supercars. You just have to study...which by the way I'm in the process of doing and have a long way to go. :)

:lach: It's great! It can be hard but I love it. My 2 year old has to go out in the garage every night and sit in the driver's seat and turn the steering wheel....the other night he even made the "phish" sound mocking the BOV. ;)

now that's the coolest thing i've read in a long time :bigok:
i hope my kids are like that in the future :D

I just wanted to put in that a daily driver for me consist of the max of possibly 60-100 miles a week at the absolute max. Then there is the occassional out of town trip which is actually only 35 miles from my house. This trip takes place once to twice a month. The car wouldnt be driven a lot and the traffic here is minimal. I live in a very small town. Didnt know if this would possibly help my situation or not.