Powersteering Removal Kit
 

I am looking for places to purchase the recirculation line for the steering rack when removing the powersteering pump.

Thanks

Don't bother with that.

Call these people and either get your rack converted the RIGHT way, or buy one that already has been. I can't say enough about how great it is.... safer too.

http://www.mavalgear.com/

While I agree that MAvel is the "better" way to do it,..I would like you to explain in detail how it is "safer" than a looped system.

As for the kit, if you don't feel like trying to figure out what the sizes are of the fittings, than go with Gotham's, Although if you spend the time to figure it out it will cost about 30 dollars less;)

its free if you just cut the long hose that connects to the the pump, and cut the line that goes to the cooler, however, once you do it, you can't put it back on.... thats what the CWC guy told me to do, he told me to just save my money....

by the way, how much does mavel charge? that would be the best way of course....

I believe the Mavel modification costs about $250 (price went up I heard). SHipping will cost a pretty penny.

I have the Maval rack on my car with stock wheels and tires and, while better than the looped system, it still takes some effort to steer at slow speeds. With more rubber on the pavement, I'm sure it would be even worse. It feels good cruising but I wouldn't try to autocross with it. I'm probably going to replace mine with an FC manual rack.

After a week with the line looped, you will forget what the power steering felt like. It's not that bad

The power rack was never intended to be used as a manual, and there's a very thin input shaft that will flex and be a potential failure point.... it's been refered to as a "reed". Some folks have had theirs welded to use with the loop, but by the time you do that, i'd just get a welded, greased, properly done rack.

Yes, it takes more effort, but not as much as a looped rack, and it also isn't as touchy and overboosted at speed as the power rack. I don't even notice any more.... and its a non-issue on the track, even in the tight corners at VIR w/ 275 R-compound front tires.

Has anyone broken their original "looped" rack at the "reed" or anywhere else ?

Tom

Hehe, you think about getting rid of it? I would be interested in it if it is in good condition and fully functional.

I just paid $165 for my conversion, which is what Dave Batke quoted me a couple years ago when I originally contacted Maval and what everyone else has paid, as far as I know. Add $60 if you can't/don't provide your own core rack.

Why? The FC rack has a much less ideal ratio (20.3:1 vs 15:1 for the FD).

I heard the same from the big list "hypochondriacs" too, but if you ever see the quill shaft in person, you'll know how ridiculous that is. Welding the quill shaft solid just eliminates the extra movement (4-5°) allowed by the joint for more immediate response, nothing more.

If I could get it for $165 I would be interested in getting one.

So is it really that bad to do AutoX with a manual rack? I am doing the LS1 and eliminating the power steering and was thinking about doing some AutoCrossing.

Anyone that AutoX that has the Manual rack has any problems?

They are now $270 and your core. They won't ship one out until they receive your core.

Ok, nevermind guess I am not getting one. That is just not morally right to charge that much more. Price should go down not up. Unless they made the manual rack out of titanium : ) or did more innovation to the rack.

I am sure when they set the price at $165 they already account for their profit margin. But charging $105 more in addition without making the rack better than it was before is just not right. But hey maybe, the manual rack is at least $105 better than it was before.

Business is business, if they are the only company to do what they do with quality, I guess just charge people more, because some people will pay for it. :sigh: sucks that it was a $105 instead of a few dollars. Dang inflation of money huh? I guess I am just cheap!!!

Agreed on all counts. I've never HEARD of it braking, but the mere idea was enough for me since the car see's track time... and all the other "little" details such as removing the few degrees of play, the easier movement of a greased rack, and not using the FC ration all added up to the right choice for me.

I think i payed $200 and change to buy an already converted one outright. The guy told me I could send my old one in for a core refund, but never did.

It wasn't $270 though.

I run the FC rack in a FD.

Took a bit to get her to work and made some pieces but it's a great after it's done.

It cost about 20 bucks worth of parts (the most expensive was the tap for 12x1.25 -that was a killer to find). You come out about the same b/c you have to align the car and buy a manual rack for about 80 bucks.

Total cost prolly was around 150 with new steering boots.

I'm also using same manual rack on my TII with 245's up front and that's about all you will want to go for street driving with a smaller steering wheel.

I have had my p/s deleted for about 3 yrs.

Initially I had the 'poor man's' with hacked off stock parts and a looped line, and the steering effort was *very* difficult. the stock fittings come out of the rack at an angle and the line loop is in a D shape.

Once I went to the Gotham one (that I personally sourced the parts for, and I can tell you at $30 there is not much of a profit margin) the steering was much easier. The fittings in the gotham kit come straight out of the rack the loop is in a U shape, which I would think gives much less resistance. I will say again that the effort is/was much much easier with the gotham kit, I had the damn kit sitting on my shelf for over a year and was kicking myself for not installing it sooner.

I havent experienced any failure whatsoever after over 3 years and around 20k miles.

Has anyone experience a looped system full of fluid and drained like some poeple recomend. Just wondering if anyone has tried both since people recomend diffrent things. Thanks in advance, Mike

Where is everyone seeing prices for MARVEL? Or are you guys e-mailing?

I negotiated the price with Maval a long time ago and have posted it several times.

When I bought my Maval rack, I mentioned Jimlab's price from a post I read and was told that $165 was an old price they honored later when he bought. I'm sure that core racks are harder to find and their costs for parts and labor have gone up so they have to charge more. Their rack is really cleaned up and put together well. I've been driving with it for awhile and it's not unbearable even pulling in and out of the garage but I think if you were in a situation where you really had to saw the wheel back and forth quickly, it would be a bitch.

Looped line here. Took it out for the weight mostly. AutoX? are you kidding me i would not think of autox'n it would be impossible! Good advice goodfella i'll have to purchase the loop. Are you supposed to leave the lines full of fluid?

Just curious, how much horse power is recovered and weight lost with this conversion?

Might be 20 lbs worth of garbage... maybe more. Hard to say on HP. Did I mention that I can change all four plugs now from the top, without removing anything significant?

:werd:

I can change all 4 plugs in under 5 mins now :bubrub:

Mine are still full of fluid, yes. You won't believe the difference once you switch over.....I feel like I am driving a different car :)

LOL

I've got 18's 245's up front. The steering effort is minorly more than before (to me) It sounds like the majority of the people on this board need to go eat some wheaties and get into a freakin gym! It is not that bad once you are moving more than 4-5 mph.

Anybody know what sizes the three fittings are in the gotham kit? Also anyone know the hose size? Anyone use stainless steel braided? Or can you w/ those fittings? I guess everyone is still running a main pulley w/ two belt placements. Someone should come up w/ a single driven main pully..It would look a bit cleaner that way.

Any one have a photo of what the kit looks like when its installd ??
And is this easy to install my self ?

Yes it is very easy!!! the biggest pia is removing the p/s system itself. Once thats out of the way the gotham kit is quite easy to figure out.
You can also do it using the stock lines...just a matter of hacking one of them up, looping it around so it connects to the other fitting on the rack.
I used the gotham kit just cause it looks decent and its $35.00. The only difference is while not moving or rolling at slow speeds. Then again, i do have the new Falken Azenis 255/40 up front. I'm a small guy, 140lbs soaking wet and able to turn it no problem so dont let that discourage you. Once youre moving you wont even be able to tell the difference. It cleans up the engine bay big time and might free up some hp. In my opinion a good, easy, cheap mod!!!!

2FAST7S , did you remove the A/C as well? I think I'd like to remove my power steering, but I'm not willing to give up air conditioning just yet.

-s-

I'll take a picture for you tonight of my Gotham kit installed.

Thx alot !!

Two things to think about (or dream) for those with money and time. First, they have new electric power steering kits, some of which are speed sensitive. Two, try fitting a manual steering rack out of a Porsche 993. They're the pinnacle of front end feel and they have a great manual rack. Not sure how much work it would be but I may look into it with the assistance of my local Porsche tuner shop (owner is a good friend).
Michel

I would think that matching the geometry of a Porsche rack would be tough, and any "feel" possibly gained would be negated by incorrect geometry/bumpsteer.

I would once again advocate just getting a properly converted manual rack from Maval. I'm not sure there's any incredible steering rack technology that Porsche uses that nobody else does... it's just precision and the right ratio.

The rack doesn't have beans to do with how the steering feels other than its ratio. Steering feel come from the geometrical relationship between the hub, spindle, king pin axis and inclination and wheel offset.

Disabling the power steering by removing the pump does absolutely nothing for steering feel other than require more effort to turn the wheel. Here's an analogy: If I can speak in a normal tone of voice and you can understand me, then my screaming at the top of my lungs doesn't somehow increase your understanding. You heard and understood my message both times, one just hurts your ears.

You must not spend much time up around 140 mph... :D

At very low speeds, it can definitely make the car more difficult to turn, but typically only in a parking scenario, where some people want to be able to crank the wheels lock to lock while sitting in one spot. It's like trying to push a non-running car around a shop; once in motion, turning the wheels is easy, even with no power assist. At 15+ mph, though, it's a non-issue unless you're on an autocross course, and if you autocross, leave the power steering in. It's as simple as that.

At high speed, primitive speed-sensing power assist systems like the FD allow too much ambiguity in road feedback and make the car too darty, or at least that's my opinion and experience. The car felt rock-solid after eliminating power steering and I'd never go back. If it makes parking a little more difficult, change your method of parking. I never had a problem.

I am running a setup like this---I am only using one of the stock main crank pullies (deleted p/s and a/c).

My ac is gone too.. Got a pic?

140 no. Motorsport Ranch where I spend the most track time only has a short front straight where I typically only hit about 115 mph. I think the FD has excellent steering feedback perfectly stock. Maybe you just don't know how to listen hard enough ;)

Of course my car is also setup to take advantage of R compound tires but the suspension and drivetrain is still wildly stock compared to most FD's; tracked or not.

I too just removed my PS with the "loop". IMHO it definitely feels much better. I get a much better sense of how the road feels. I will confirm this at Mid Ohio next month, but I suspect I will never go back. Over the winter I will do the Mavalgear upgrade though (for safety).

Issues about PS and parking concerns is similar to the non sequential vs. sequential debate. Change your driving habits and everything works simpler.

R

Why spend money on a kit to do the job improperly? You're still pumping fluid back and forth inside the rack. Have a look at the thread linked below and give it a try. I'd be shocked if the FC and FD steering racks are different enough to have this mod not work in the same way for FD's as it can for FC's. This will decrease effort and reduce stress on the rack over having looped lines. It may be more work to do it this way, but it'll be worth it.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-gen-archive-72/how-de-power-your-steering-rack-right-way-440198/

I've changed my mind on the 15:1 ratio racks after driving mine for a while longer and having heard all this feedback from drivers using 15:1 manual conversions.

Good find!

-s-

Probably because you had your ratios backwards. The FC manual racks are not desirable because of the higher ratio. Just FYI, all of the quick ratio aftermarket racks that I researched were also 15.0:1.

1986-87 FC manual rack
Ratio: 20.3:1
Turns: 3.5 lock to lock

1993-95 FD converted manual rack
Ratio: 15.0:1
Turns: 2.9 lock to lock

The Maval Gear conversion is identical to the one outlined on the site you linked to, BTW. However, they go a step further and remove the fittings and smooth the rack for additional clearance for engine swaps, and by request, weld the FD quill shaft to eliminate the ~5° of free play.

Nice, i'm thinking of getting one of these...

Jay7...

yea ill second that Jay7

I know the FC manual rack is a 20.3:1 ratio, but the power racks aren't. They come in 17.4:1 and 15.2:1. That's what I was reffering to, power racks converted to manual.