Paint weight debate
 

I went over to a shop today to speak with the owner about painting my FD track car. Some friends and I were just talking about the weight of a paint job the other night so I thought Id ask about it. I brought up the possibility of media blasting the car down to the metal before painting in order to shed the weight of the old paint. He pretty much didnt take me very seriously and insisted that the total weight of a completed paint job could not be over 5lbs. Part of me thinks this is total bs as I wouldnt be surprised if paint weight 20-30lbs (multiple coats of primer, top coat, and clear), but I couldnt call him out on it due to lack of evidence/knowledge on the subject.

So Im wondering...have any of you ran into any data regarding painted/unpainted weight comparisons?

>> The matter is kind of a moot point considering media blasting the entire car is only like $180, so I will do it anyways. Still curious though.

You'd be better off skipping McDonalds IMO.

Is your real name Mark Webber?

Well it does add weight obviously and I will not be surprised if it is that much. Back in the days when I used to work with A-6 Intruder and we used the glossy paint we were limited to apply no more than 2 coats of paint because the added weight and drag. On the F/A-18 it isn't a big of a deal because the flat/matte finish of the paint isn't as thick as the glossy paint but we are only limited to 3 coats. Only on a few areas where the lead coating is applied to the aircraft is where we are limited to one coat. When I say coats I mean a full paint job of the base colors. Plane markings and decorative designs don't apply.

BTW I forgot where I read it but red is proven to be the lightest color.

^^win!

I'm off to McD's for an Angus burger :lol:

I have a brand new unpainted fender from mazda and 2 CYM ones. IMO, the CYM fenders were noticably heavier (although they had the fender vents on them as well). 20 - 30 lbs would not surprise me in the least. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will post up any time now.

I have seen a lot of stupid threads over the years. This one has to be near the top.

Guess what?? You have to paint your car. It is going to add some minimal amount of weight to the car. That little bit of extra weight doesn't make any difference!!!! You have to paint the car!!!! Do you think that professional racers (like Nascar) don't want all those logos on the car because it weighs the car down? Maybe its time for a reality check?

You can't be serious!!! A gallon of red paint isn't going to have a different weight than a gallon of ANY other color.

I wouldn't be surprised if the paint weighs a bit more than 20-30lbs. My painted carbon fiber Scoote hood is alot heavier than an unpainted Scoote hood, it has to be at least a 5lb difference or more. Its surprisingly noticeable, I couldn't believe it.

You have to read the post better, hes not saying hes not going to paint the car. He wants to remove all the old paint first so that he doesnt have the extra weight under the new paint. Nobody is dumb enough to just leave their cars at bare metal and not paint them. I hope haha.

A gallon of fresh water and a gallon of sea water have different weights. ;)

I do remember reading that United Airlines saved a shitload of weight by not painting their planes white anymore, and just applying graphics on the bare skin... it was enough to offer fuel savings, but I don't have any idea how that compares to automotive paint jobs.

I imagine any paint shop that has painted enough cars could give you an estimate on how much primer, paint and clear they go through to cover the car. You could just find out what that stuff weighs according to those amounts. Not all the paint obviously ends up on the car and some is sanded down but it should give a pretty good estimate and is a lot easier than weighing things before and after painting.

and a fair amount evaporates as it dries....

Mercedes used to strip all of their GP cars back in the day to meet weight requirements. Thats how the acquired the "silver arrow" nickname. All of the GP cars were just a shining aluminum body.

john delorean did...

You really only get one shot at a decent paint job. Strip the car, and do it right. You'll thank me in a year or two.

Well the exterior of his car were made of stainless steel too.

What about the paint on the floor?

A gallon of paint is in liquid form. So of course all paints are basically the same weight in liquid form.

It's the finished paint coat that is being considered. Red is known for having poor solids content and therefore more solvents as the balance. If you apply a gallon of liquid paint to a car it is reasonable that the red paint coat will have the least solids and the lightest finished weight.

If you're debating whether paint weight matters to you, it's a pretty easy decision: pull a fender, weigh it accurately, and strip the paint. There's your weight savings. Now consider the benefit (if any) and make a decision on the rest of the car. Don't take any of our word for it.

What I am saying is that it doesn't make any difference what the color is. The car has to be painted, and the weight of one color (or another) isn't going to effect the performance of the car. If it did effect performance (and red was measurably lighter), all professional race cars would be red.

Stripping old paint off to repaint isn't going to provide any measurable gain in performance.

Next we will be suggesting that drivers shouldn't wear socks or underwear to save weight. We certainly won't be able to race any more with coins in our pockets :)

If that is true, wouldn't it also be true that it would take more red paint to cover a car, and that the weight would likely come out about the same?

wow, so this answers the lingering question about painting flames on your car and it making it faster.

IMO the easiest way to find out weight is to find out how many cans of mixed primer, paint, and clear coat you need. You can't go off the paint before premix because it get deluted during the process.

Its got to weigh more than 30lbs because I know I could not carry all the paint it would take to do a whole car.

FAA requires airliners to be painted as a corrosion protection procedure. American Airlines has famously not painted their planes for decades now. When they calulated (1) the weight of the paint, (2) the labor and material costs to paint a plane, and (3) the ease at which skin inspections could be done without stripping the old paint and repainting, it was much much cheaper to pay the FAA fine for not painting the planes. This info came from AA's maintenance office.

The facts from an expert
 

My car is currently at the body shop. It has a couple of scratches on the drivers door, and a very small dent in the rear quarter panel. I just called the owner and asked about paint weights. He said that it would take about eight pounds of materials to cover my entire car. That includes primer, paint, and clear coat. Eight pounds for the whole car.

Stripping a car to paint it (for weight savings) seems a huge waste of time.

Painted cars have less drag!!!!!

Pile it on!

Its definitely not 8lbs, I'd guess my hood alone weighs 5lbs more than a clear coated unpainted carbon hood.

just go to the gym already

Sand the whole thing down to bare metal then cover it with foil/vinyl :D I don't know if it's heavier or lighter but I'm guessing lighter.

that's more likely. i could see if you did some 30 coat lacquer 70's paint job, it could be 15-20lbs, but its not...

When I painted my FC I maybe had 20lbs of materials in a box when I started, Considering I did not use it all and the ammount that was sanded off and on top of that the paint giving off the voc's when it sets up I would guess under 10lbs more like 5-7. Thats Bondo over the dings then sand, Primer surfacer over the whole car then sand, then a base then clear then sand the clear flat and buff.

Given the ammount that went into the gun on the scale and the fact that it gets considerably lighter when it dries Im going with 5-7lbs total.

Nobody seems to worry when they put 18-19 inch rims and tires on their car but suddenly a few lbs of paint is a big deal? I easily gained 20lbs with 17X10's vs 16X7's

Take your floor mats out :)

It definitely is 8 lbs. That info comes from the owner of a local high end body shop. He has been in business for more than 25 years, and has painted thousands of cars. 8 pounds is a fact, not an opinion.

...and I am instantly reminded why I stay away from posting on forums. Always some douche bag armchair engineer chiming in with some ignorant bs that turns a well intentioned thread into a flamefest. Thought I was on Honda-Tech for a sec.

As someone mentioned...Im not talking about an FD Delorean tribute. (If) the paint weights 20lbs, Id like to remove it first before applying new paint. Im not looking for opinions on how you think I should build my car. My question was intended to anyone with actual experience or data pertaining to the typical weight of an automotive paint job.

Great logic. How much weight is saved by using a carbon hood vs the stock aluminum? 3-5lbs? How about sound deadening? Titanium exhaust? Individually insignificant I suppose. I think you know where this is headed...
1(1000)=1000(1)

Because all paints have the same pigment/density/viscosity/etc? I hope you dont do anything terribly important for a living.

No. Its Sebastian fuc*kin Vettel.

Thanks to the rest of you for your input. I think its really interesting.

Ok Sebastian. Read it all. Try to see the logic. Try to see the common sense. If you can't see it .............. read it again

I can't really comment on how much car paint weighs but where I work we use some kind of paint that comes in 5 gallon buckets.

I can't remember which color it was but one was much heavier than the others.

It's non automotive paint but some paints do weigh more or less than others.

I believe the brand new fenders are thinner metal than the old stock ones, believe it or not.

When rolling the fenders, my left front fender rolled like butter. That fender had been replaced with a new one.

The right front fender was considerably harder to do. It could just be the quality of the metal, but IIRC the new one was actually thinner.

If I get ambitious I will go out to the garage and measure it later.

Sure, but the adage was that a gallon of red weighs less than a gallon of other colors.

I'd have to ask a body guy if it takes more paint in red to get a good color than other colors.

David

Dave,

Take a scale to any car parts store. Grab several cans of differently colored spray paint. I would wager that the red paint is no different than the others.

Paint weight sepends on the type of paint and the quality of it. If it is bad quality you want to remove it all off anyway because it would reduce the quality of your paint in the long run (chipping, etc). But make sure to paint it with good quality paint and primer. And always give it a good waxing for that extra soothness :nod:

there are poor hiding colors that take more coats, and there are tri coat paints ( such as CYM ) that are additional coats.

reds, yellows, and even some blues can be poor hiding.

single stage colors will be lighter then mettalics

high solids primers will be heavier then finishing primers

high solids clearcoats are heavier then some other clear coats

I can weight any kind of paint you guys wish I have some on hand

http://robx-7.nopistons.com/d/2919-1/bbs1+001.jpg

Since you offered, please weigh a can of red paint vs cans of different colors. To be fair the paints must be of the same type and manufacturer.

Thank you in advance :)

we can be more scientific, how about the total weight for a gallon according to the mix?

red is actually one of the lightest, white is heavy- you would think white would be light, but its not.

paint I am referencing is DuPont Imron

kenworth white: 4407 grams ( 9.715 lbs )

dark silver metallic 3783.5 grams ( 8.34 lbs )

peterbuilt red : 3968.5 ( 8.749 )
Chrysler dodge truck red : 3919 grams ( 8.639 )

seven-up company green : 4066 grams ( 8.963 )

There you go people, scientific proof that shows why red cars are faster :D

but it takes more coats to cover, so it might be 3 coats of black where the red will be 5-7coats

OMG not to mention that the paint probably loses weight when it dries. The debate about stripping the car was a little bit of a stretch.

The red vs world paint debate is beyond reason of any sort. Paint your cars aesthetically! Or I kill the kitteh!

Got those =P

https://i307.photobucket.com/albums/...hplDL6zzAM.jpg

I think thats pretty interesting. Regardless of whether it is a big deal or not, the weight of paint on a car is something that I have never really thought about and therefore it sparked some curiosity. I appreciate these sorts of things that remind you that no matter how long you've been around racing/race cars, there is always more to learn.

I came across this:
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...4d7de0b6d35f91

The last few posts are interesting and suggest something around 20-40lbs (40 was including undercarrage). Of course this is taken with a grain of salt, but food for thought nonetheless.

Thanks for the great data you guys are contributing!

Good grief...

Is anyone taking into account the amount of weight that goes away once the paint dries?

Or over-spray.:dunno:

The can stated % of VOC's they will all evaporate so add up #gallons of paint * (1-VOC%)* (weight of full can-empty can) . I bet 6-20 lbs is about right.