paw140

I put a Mazda reman in earlier this year. Since day one, when I start it for the first time of the day, it smokes pretty badly for maybe a minute, then stops completely. It smokes to the point that when I back out of my garage, the car starts to fill with smoke if I have the windows down. I think it's pretty annoying and pisses me off, not to mention it's a little embarrasing.

The old engine, which had 91K miles on it, never smoked like this. This didn't start until I put the new engine in.

Now, I suppose the smoking could be due to my turbos... they have about 93K on them. Does anyone have a good way to check if it's the engine seals or the turbos? I was thinking of just disconnecting the intake line from the TB elbow to the intercooler, letting it run like that for a while, shutting it down, and then seeing if it smoked the next morning

FYI, I have not had to add *any* oil to the engine - it is always on full. It pulls about 15 in Hg vacuum at idle, which to me seems a little bit low. I have probably 3 months left on the warranty, but I really don't want to pull the engine again.

racerfoo

Mine does that exact same thing. When its warm out, hardly any smoke, but the colder it is the more the smoke. I dont burn coolant, or oil either.

this doesnt always happen either. sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt.

Fatman0203

Im not sure but I notice a big difference between parking inside (garage) and outside. The condensation and dew in the morning must have something to do with it.

moe_jr

I have the same problem. I just recently installed a mazda reman and it smokes for a minute or two every time i start it when its cold. Has done it ever since i got it. Dont have to add oil or anything. just a big cloud of smoke when i start it

SleepR1

Yep, me too. My KDR/Malloy motor smokes oil the first few seconds upon start-up, then the smoke goes away. Both the J-spec twins and motor have 11,750 miles on them since installation January of this year. The twins were recently inspected, and are in excellent shape (they were installed brand new).

moe_jr

my motor has only 1,200 miles and my turbos only 3,000 miles on them but it smokes every morning before school and sometimes after

paw140

Ok, well, I guess I might just have to live with it. I *know* it is oil smoke from the color and the smell (it's not condensation). And it doesn't just last for a few seconds, more like a minute, maybe two.

Meiogirl

iTrader: (2)

perhaps its buring off oil residue in the chamber?

paw140

Yes, but where is that oil coming from? It shouldn't be there. That's my question.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

If you have a KDR or other motor put in, and got the e-shaft mod done, thats a likely contributer... mine does this a bit too.

spoolin93r1

the oil metering pump injects oil in the combustion area. some is unburnt when you shut the car off, and it's just burning a lot of excess oil, plus the cars are ultra rich on start up, so fuel adds to some of it

paw140

I thought about this, and I don't think it's the problem. First of all, it didn't do this with the old engine. Secondly, if there was a little oil left over from the oil injectors, it probably wouldn't smoke for an entire minute or two. Thirdly, Mazda would never have been able to sell a car that put out clouds of oil smoke for the first minute of running, so I'm assuming that they didn't do this when they were new.

redrotorR1

I've gone through this .... three times. It's the carbon seals in your turbos. They're not totally bad yet. But the minute or two smoke session will get worse later. Check your rearview mirror after going WOT. If you see a big cloud dissipating after you let off, then you have a sure sign. Turbos gone bad.

The lack of oil loss is due to the nature of the carbon seals. They get old and heat starts to crack them. The oil pressure behind them is pretty high ... so you get a spritzing effect. Kinda like if you drop a coke bottle and try to open it slightly. You're only losing a tiny amount of oil ... but it sure does seem like a lot when you're watching all that smoke pour out the back.

Sorry to hear it, dood. Time to start thinking about what's next ... single or RS/RZ turbos?

Meiogirl

iTrader: (2)

what exhaust are you running?

CCarlisi

Can someone please elaborate on this?

SleepR1

Yup, I got the full work up from KDR on my Malloy reman--e-shaft mod--oils the eccentric shaft continuously. Also got enlarged oil and water passages, and silicone o-ring seals.

paw140

I have been running and HKS DP, stock cat, and stock muffler. I just switched to a RB dual this weekend (kicks ***, by the way).

DaedelGT

Have you looked in your intake pipes after the intercooler? Mine smokes at startup for about 30 seconds when I start up and I blame it on the thorough coating of oil in my intake.

RonKMiller

I go with the Redrotor 1's turbos slowly going bad theory. And here's why:

I bought mine new, and I assure you it NEVER smoked on startup. At 75K on bone cold startup I get a little bit of smoke for a second or two, on warm startup none, nadda, zilch. The colder it is the more smoke I get - I park my car in a heated garage 99% of the time, but once in a while it is parked outside in 20 degree temperature. More smoke on startup. It ain't coming from the engine since I am pulling 18 inches of vacuum on a certificated vacuum gauge.

I attribute this to the warmer seals expanding and "sealing" better. That's why I am such an advocate of at least a 15 minute driving warm up before boost, in order to "heat soak" the entire engine and components. Thermal shock in extreme circumstances (as in airplanes) can sieze an engine.

I am definitely going with the RZ spec tubos when it is time, I like the abraidable seals idea.

David Beale

When cold, you could also have higher oil pressure in the turbo, due to the higher oil viscosity. Probably no higher than the release valve, though it too could raise the pressure somewhat due to being cold. The higher oil pressure can force more oil past the "seals" in the turbo. I put that in quotes because I think it's funny they call them seals. Have a look at them, in a breakdown diagram or on removed turbos.

It's also possible the side oil seals on the remans are not as good as the new engines when cold (new material/design perhaps). The rotor does have oil inside, and it can get into the combustion chamber if it leaks past the side seals.

RonKMiller

I think we need to assume that the engine seals are OK since it has been remanufactured to specs and are new, however....we all know where assuming get us.

That's an interesting idea about the viscosity...hmmm. I guess my thought is the surface of the "seal" at thousand of RPMs per minute is going to warm up much faster than the oil.

But on second thought, why would the turbos start having a problem - all of a sudden - when its the engine that's new?

Pawl140: A few questions: How do your plugs look? How about swabbing the interior of your intake tract - is it a normal light amber coating of oil or heavier and dark? Could your main cat be permeated with oil from the break in period since you say you are apparently not burning any?

Do a leakdown test on the engine - that will tell you for sure - I can't think of any other way to test it.

This stuff can drive you crazy if you think about it enough!

paw140

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'm starting to lean towards the turbos too, but I'm not totally convinced. I do like the theory of higher oil pressure during startup, and large seal clearances when cold causing a fine oil mist.

Ron: I haven't pulled the plugs yet since I put the engine in. Actually, I haven't even pulled any of the intake hoses off... It's been running so good that I haven't had to mess with anything (except for the smoking). I doubt the main cat is permeated with oil, considering I have about 2500 miles on the rebuild, and don't use premix.

redrotorR1

Yup. I can attest to that. When the seals leak, it looks really bad at startup. As the seals heat up, they seat better and prevent the oil blow-by that's causing the local fire department headaches. However, the seals eventually don't seal well at all .... and you get smoke out the back everytime you increase the oil pressure across the hot side of the turbo(s). That's how I knew mine were gone ... every time you got hard on the boost, poof ... clouds of smoke out the back.

Been very happy with my set. You won't regret the purchase.

alwan16

there are two for sure ways to check if it is your motor oil seals or turbos....

1. pull off the turbos and see if there is oil coming out of the exhaust port. there will be visible oil in the port/exhaust manifold and maybe a small puddle in the rotor housing.

2. use one of those fancy fiber optic cameras and peak into your spark plug holes looking for oil.

i would personally just pull the turbos if you are ready to replace them anyways and can afford it. if it is the engine then you have just lost the time to pull the turbos while the engine is still in the car.

good luck.

alex

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Sorry to bring this thread back.. But seems pretty informative and I'm going thru something similar and want some more input.

Here is my situation.. My 2nd FD that I recently purchase is smoking like crazy.. As I was troubleshooting, found out that its definitely not coolant!.. took the X over IC tube and there were excessive oil. Took the primary turbo intake and notice excessive play.. Took the downpipe and oil was dripping out at the end of DP.. took the secondary intake off and had normal play.. I'm in a process of taking the twins off.. but wondering anything else I could check to see if my oil control rings are bad?? Before checking the exhaust ports?? My sparks looked to be ok.. initially smell more gas.. but I think it was due to pullin them shortly after starting the car. after couple of hours or more, the sparks were nice and dry.