Noises from JimLab Bushings - Report
 

I installed these bushings about a year ago and about 3000 miles on them. The bushings were installed into control arms on a parts car that had 10,000 miles on it so the ball joints etc were in great shape.

Followed instructions, tapped zerks fittings, torqued everything down, had a raceshop do a real alignment.

The bushings felt great. No noise. This was during winter.

Now it's summer and something, I'm guessing it's the front bushings, is making a huge racket after about 20 miles from a cold start. Sort of like the noise your worn out pickup truck makes as it creaks over speed bumps. Sort of like the noise your sway bar makes as you drive over a speed bump side way. Sort of like a dull clunking but not very sharp clunking. It's loud enough that the parking attendant noticed it. Very very annoying.

I checked the torque on all the bolts. They're fine. I'm pretty sure it's the bushings although I do have to check on the sway bar bushings.

Any one with very high miles on these bushings? Any noises etc.?? Or am I looking at the wrong item?

My mechanic didn't put the Zerks in and after about 200 miles its doing it really bad!

plus with the tighter setup the tops of the perches of my JIC coilovers squeek like a mofo...

the best description I have is it sounds like two 300 pound people having sex on a 80 year old box spring!!!!


I plan to trouble shoot it here when the car gets back for a second time from the body shop and I am mucking around the suspension putting in the 99 spec brakes...

Oh... we put the car up on a lift and yanked and pulled at everything....the suspension feels tight as hell...

the car has new pillow balls bushings all around and new rotary extreme toe links and trailing arms...

mine is squeeky as hell too, but I'm tearing it apart soon to regrease it. Is zerk fitting worth it?

You haven't mentioned if you have regreased any of them...

Yeah, I did regrease them after 1000 miles. It wasn't necessary as I don't drive in rain 99% of the time. Plus, the second regreasing just made a bigger mess of grease flowing out of the pins for the bushings.

hmmm so where do you think your noise is coming from?

Check your front swaybar mountings for metal/metal contact, and your springs for something similar.

I was surprised how many noises the stock rubber bushings actually hide. I've been running these for a while now (probably 10k miles) and for the longest time couldn't figure out where all these new noises came from. I had replaced all of the pillow bushings as well. Just a few months ago I replaced toe links with some from RotaryExtreme and that cured the extra noise from the rear. I have noise from the front now and I suspect it's linkage at the sway bar has gotten sloppy.

The only unusual noise I could directly attribute to the bushings have been in the cold of winter they would squeak a little in the rear until things warmed up.

Installed new Energy Suspesnion SwayBar Bushing.

A little less noise but it's still noisy: clunking sound as you go over bumps.

How old are your shocks?

If you've got no slop in the inner bushings and no slop in the ball joints because they're in good condition, the rubber bushing in the bottom of the shock is going to be the "weak link" in the front suspension. Before the suspension really starts to move, it's going to compress those bushings. If they're excessively worn, you might hear a clunking sound as a result. The shock bushings in the rear are replaced by the bushing kit, so that would explain why people don't seem to report clunking sounds coming from the rear of the car.

The Konis Yellows are about 2 years old with about 10,000 miles on them. The strangest part is when the weather is cool, 70F or lower there is no clunking sound.

plus with the tighter setup the tops of the perches of my JIC coilovers squeek like a mofo...

the best description I have is it sounds like two 300 pound people having sex on a 80 year old box spring!!!!

:crackup:

The weak link here is that the bushings have very little give to them. Since they are so hard if you have the slightest amount of clearance then you'll have noise.

On the 15 running/driving FDs I've had and the other 10 or so I've driven I've never heard shocks clunk.

Now THAT's interesting. I have stock Touring, with original everything but tires, 78K on chassis. I get clunking in the front end when it's warm outside, but not when cold. It clunks when I turn the wheel, or when it goes over bumps. Shock bushing, huh? Just thought I'd add a data point on temp related front end clunk from a non-modified suspension...

I just had my Unob. bushings removed due to MAJOR clunking...

At the same time of installation, I had replaced my suspension w/ ground control adj. suspension and eibach springs, and while it was being worked on, I had the shop replace the bushings with the unob.

About a year later, I started having this untraceable clunking in the front suspension - clunked when it braked, clunked when I road on the smoothest roads, clunked on every imperfection on the road - tried white grease - clunk when away for a few miles then came back.

After removing the unob. bushings a few weeks ago (after 4 race shops having looked at it, I could not think of anything else to diagnose - it was a guess), I discovered that the perfectly round centers of the bushing where now oblonged - did not keep the shape. I replaced w/ new stock bushings... NO MORE CLUNKING!!!!!

I thought these unobs. bushings were supposed to be strong - but a quick test by smacking w/ a hammer - in gives...

I have pics I will post if anyone is interested. Just my 2cents.

Post pictures please. I'm sure a lot of people are interested to see.

Please post pics.

What did you do after removal of bushings? run the stock bushings or mazda speeds and if so how much was the cost for the front?

wonder how much teh mazda speed bushing are. i should go find out from the dealer.

I replaced the upper and lower control arm bushings w/ the stock bushings. No more clunking - I paid about $150 for a set from Malloy.

Here are some pics of both sides of the Unob. bushings - upper and lower have the same oblong shape in the center. I hope this helps you guys out.

I have other pics if you guys need more detail, but you can see the deformity in these pics.

One more thing - I drive the car about 100 to 150 miles a month on the average.

Interesting. I am having clunking when brakes are applied or I drive on uneven surfaces like grass and can't seem to trace it down. All my suspension is new and tight. Maybe this is the problem.

When I bought my car i was informed that JimLab's Unobtainium bushings were installed. Once summer rolled around I too noticed a very annoying creeking/cracking as the suspension moved around, especially noticeable at slow speeds and in parking lots with windows down. I checked tightness etc. when i first started to look for a solution to the problem and everything was fine. I pulled the front suspension apart and found that all of the steel inserts to the bushings were dry and polished looking in spots. This was the problem, they were just dry. Normal grease just seems to go away rather quickly. I have been using the Energy Suspension Polyurethane Bushing Grease on them. It is a clear or milky foggy clear grease that is extremely sticky. It is actually really nasty stuff that does not come off easily with any type of hand cleaner. This works for about a year, maybe two if your lucky, then you have to take it all apart again and regrease.

This just goes to show you that a guy in his garage cannot match what the factory with its army of development engineers can do. I don't dispute that the technical analysis that Jim did was what the engineers at our client's company (a huge German conglomerate) would have done. But hell, there ain't no long term testing that Jim could have match to determine the longevity of the bushing. It looks like I'm going to have to call Ray at Malloy for a set of the front stock bushings.

Anybody wants to buy a set of low mileage unobtanium bushings?.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=69555
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=69556

If things are moving they need lube, simple as that. Jim's bushings need lube, Jim mentions that in the install instructions. The problem is that there are no lube grooves in the bushing for the lube so it has no where to go the result is squeaky/worn bushings.

I installed only the rear bushings in May 2003. Lubed them when installed but no greae fittings. They were quiet for about 10,000 miles and started to creak around December but not bad. Checked everything in the suspension to be sure nothing loose or worn. As a check I sprayed WD-40 on the bushing while installed and it quieted them down for about 1,500 miles. Sparyed them in the spring after another 1,000 miles or so and it helped again. This summer with about 13-14,000 miles they started creaking like an ox cart. WD-40 doesn't help anymore. They are quiet for about 20 miles when cold then start creaking. The hotter the weather, the worse the noise.

I've been busy with work but am planning to disassemble, regrease and install grease fittings. After seeing those pictures, I'm very interested to see how the bushings are holding up.

Jack

I've installed zerk fittings on a motocross bike to lubricate suspension bushings and never used a groove....they worked fine

I'd like to hear from more people who installed zerk fittings with Jim's bushings and keep up with the maintenance (likey not many)....you probably have to re-grease the bushings about every 5,000 miles, especially if you drive in rain

as always, increased performance comes with a price....FD owners know this all too well

WD-40 is not a good lube, you might notice that it is thinner than water, you need a thick grease to properly lube the bushings.

did you talk to jim about this? It seems like the aluminum insert just ate up the nylon bushing.

WD-40 also removes moisture, not a good thing around rubber IMO.

Jim's bushings are not made of rubber.

And the center pin is not made of aluminum...

can you use this stuff in a grease gun? even with zerks, uniform distribution of grease around the bushings may be a problem

WD40 is not a lubricant, it is a cleaner at best and it will attract dirt and such

Where do you get this grease from?

Looking at the wear in those bushings, I gotta ask, Is something bent? Has your car ever been in an accident? When did you last have an alignment done by someone knowledgeable in FDs?

It would be nice the jimlab's bushings had something like O-rings or a rubber washers to seal the grease in and dirt and water out. As ther are now, they should almost be considered to be high maintenance race parts.

never wrecked - nothing bent - before the upgrade, there was never really nything wrong with the bushings - just was an opportunity since the suspension was being upgraded.

Alignment was done after the upgrade.

ddr10, I can't tell from the pictures, but the bushings with the ovalized holes-- did the nylon material look like it was worn/abraded away to make the hole larger, or did it look like it was compressed into that shape?

The former suggests that the lube was inadequate, either in type or placement.

The latter suggests the nylon was too soft and/or could not recover to its original shape. Which raises the question of whether the problem was with the original material, or perhaps the lube(s) you used.

Can you get more detailed pics posted, or at least take a closer look at the ovalized holes?

I followed the suggested installation to the letter - LOTS of lube.

The oval shape is not from wear, it actually compressed/reshaped itself to an oval. When I had the bushings removed, the shop actually diagnosed it as a weakening of the material, was easy to damage with a hammer - which lead me to believe that the comppression of the material may have been caused by bumps or imperfections on the road.

The bushings were over lubed on install, but I do recall the lube having nowhere to go but out.

One thing is for certain, my rickety clunking is gone.

Del

If the material failed due to softening I'd guess that the Nylon was not compatible with the type of lube you used.

Plastics can react with other chemicals, putting them under load makes it worse.

Yep, that's what I was getting at. ddr10 do you remember what you used on the bushings?

I used the CV joint grease (molybdenum disulfide). Nylon 6/6 is supposed to be impervious to petroleum products as Nylon 6/6 is used for intake manifold, fuel injectors etc.,

maybe that was one of Jim's early production runs ;)

Have you pulled any of your bushings yet? Do they have the same ovalized compression or wear pattern as ddr10's?

Let me guess... no zerk fittings? You didn't keep them lubricated, did you.

Under compression, they're plenty strong, but not when given a sharp blow with a hammer.

Me too, and yep.

Some people apparently think they're an install-and-forget item, which they're not. When they start to make noise, they hit them with a shot of WD-40 or motorcycle chain lube (or whatever they can find on the shelf in the garage) and the noise goes away for a little while. However, when you consider that squeaking of any kind has to be caused by friction, obviously the bushings are not being adequately lubricated. Nylon 6-6 is not self-lubricating. Unless you use Nylatron GSM which is impregnated with molybdenum disulphide (and 10x the price), you have to provide lubrication, and my instructions have said so for the last 3+ years.

What I see are bushings that melted due to lack of proper lubrication.

Jimlab, what lubrication would u recommend for these bushings? Also, is 5k a good target for a service interval? :)

Or sooner. Lubricate them when you change your oil. With zerk fittings installed, it should only take 10-15 minutes, tops.

Lithium-complex or synthetic greases are best, and marine-grade grease holds up best in wet weather driving.

another maintenance item to add to the FD laundry list

buy a C6 folks....it ain't worth it :)

Jim, if I remember correctly from when you first started doing these bushings. Lubrication was not mandatory.


It was only after people started reporting squeaking that you recommended zerk fittings and grease.

Then it was only Paul White whose rear suspension locked up at the track that you determined that the bushings must have grease on them.

WTF? The advantage supposedly to these bushings were the lubricity of nylon. I'm sure I read your analysis of this feature in either the forum or the big list. Furthermore, they are not supposed to melt until 425 deg. F.

You're telling me that in 15 miles of highway to work the thing heated up enough to cause the noise?

Pray tell me why the factory bushings do not need grease when yours was supposed to be plug and play, I mean plug and pray.


I'm really annoyed that I got no more than 3000 miles, followed all the precautions and the car sounded your grandma's Buick with 300,000 miles on the clock.

Now I have to go through the hassle pulling the control arms and installing Mazda OEM bushings.

Damn, I should have known better than to buy homemade parts from a guy whose RX7 has been on the jackstands for the last 6 years.