need some info about removing P/S
 

So guys, I decided to pull my power steering out and use that space to fab a bracket to mount my MSD and coils on. Anyway, I was on the phone with Rich at Gotham Racing and mentioned I was thinking of doing that and he said he has a hydrolic hose with the correct fittings and everything for like $35 so I decided to get it. I figured if I dont like the car without p/s I can always put it back on, hell its only $35.....thats like a tank of gas

Anyway, how do you guys like it with no power steering? I'm getting pretty excited to get that big ugly POS out of the engine bay

Thanks,
STEPHEN

I have driven my car without power steering for a couple of months and I can't say I like it much. At high speed, the steering is almost like if you have the power steering and when you are in parking lot trying to park, it's pain in the butt to steer. So I put mine back on.

Chuck Huang

One of the best single modifications I did to my car. I'd never go back, and won't be with the V8. In fact, my rack will be converted to full manual operation by Maval Gear once I have the fittings eliminated.

If the car is even slightly in motion, there's no problem whatsoever with turning the wheel, but if you're one of those people who wants to sit in one spot and let your power steering yank your tires around before you start rolling, then you'll probably need to eliminate that habit. :D

my favorite subject...

my favorite modification.

you really don't need to buy anything to do it, of course if it satisfies an inner need.... :)

most people that say the removed their power steering and hate it STILL HAVE POWER STEERING. you don't get manual by just removing the belt. you get the worst of 2 worlds. heavy wheel no feel.

you have to remove the power steering pump, plug the 4 lines from it to the rack and loop the 2 fittings near the center of the rack. any piece of rubber hose will do. before you loop them together turn the wheel back and for a few times to purge most of the fluid from the rack.
that's it

hello road feel. power steering works great on buicks and trucks etc.... not on an fd

howard coleman

I'm currently running beltless since i put in a fmic, and removed the a/c condessor, and compressor. Its ok, i'm hoping if i remove it entirely it will be better, anyone have a pic of the lines plugged or the line you loop? i'm gonna do it entirely one of these days..

I installed a manual rack from a FC. I like it. While moving it really doesn't feel "much" different at all. Parking can still be done with one hand on the wheel, and one in my girls lap. :)

Yeah I had no P/S on my 87 TII and now on my 93 R1 also. It ROCKS. So much nice road feel and no drawbacks.

B

Recirculation loop...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlab/pi...ack_recirc.jpg

referencing Jim's picture (funny looking subrame/mtr mts) ........ i just cut the two small metal lines near their rack fitting and ran a rubber loop between them. i then plugged the 4 holes on the pinion housing.

worked for me since '99 and it is lighter than jim's setup. of course he has a few more cubes.

howard coleman

so I'll need to use the loop I bought just like in Jims pic, what are the holes I'll need to plug in addition?

Also Howard, how much fluid should I leave in there? You mentioned draining some out (which I've heard before), do you have an estimate on how much to leave? Do I just turn the wheel and let it run out till I cant get any more out like that?

STEPHEN

turn the wheel back and forth until no fluid drains. since i removed the steel lines i had to plug their port at the pinion housing. jim retains the lines so he sidesteps needing to plug the 2 holes.
see you at the RR

howard coleman

I have heard that you are suppose to leave as much fluid as possible.

Amel

i personnaly hate no PS, its fken impossible to drift. its ok for dragging but i hate dragging.

Hmmm, Skunks if you have it completely removed you might want to try getting some fluid out like Howard mentioned. I'd imagine it makes a pretty big difference if its full or not cause you have to push all that fluid around if its full.

Anyone ever run if full then take some out to do a direct comparison and see if it helped?

Thanks,
STEPHEN

it's not impossible to drift. I think it makes it easier to drift with manual. Going over 30mph you can't even feel the difference besides feed back.

try a manual FC rack in the FD. Should be about 50 bucks from a junk yard.

the thing is, sometimes you do drop below 30mph when drifting. i have been in cars which have come down to about 10-20mph but be 90degrees or even more to the side of the road and then recover and then start to speed up again...

If you have the line loop at the steering rack, without an excess of fluid inside, the steering feel and effort is great. I think a lot of people that talk about how bad they hate non-power steering have not driven a car that has propery removed the P/S. I pulled the belt off my P/S pump a few years back, and hated it. Then, I properly looped the lines at the rack, and wouldn't go back to P/S if you payed me. The ONLY time it is ever a bother, is while trying to pull out of a very tight parking spot (where you have to turn the wheel without the vehicle moving), while talking on the cellphone. Seriously, if the car is even going 2mph, the steering effort is cake. Shit, when I first did it, my fragile little GF of the time didn't even have a problem with it.

Hey p'cola FD do you have a writeup on how to do it the RIGHT WAY? Are you suppose to leave as much fluid as possible in there or take it all out?

Amel

well, he said "without an excess of fluid inside, the steeting feel and effort is great".


Id assume he did it similar to how Howard did it, just move the steering wheel back and forth till all the excess fluid is out. Then put the loop on.

BTW - That line loop from Gotham is pretty nice, especially for $35. I got it in today, I'll take a pic and maybe do a little write up about the install once its finished. I wont be able to comment on the feel untill my car is running which should be in a couple weeks.

STEPHEN

The way I did it:

Pull out the pump, the cooler that goes in front of the radiator, and associated lines. The two big lines coming out of the steering rack start out as banjo fittings with metal lines for a few inches, then rubber lines. Just cut the two lines a few inches from the rack and get a length of heater hose to loop the two lines, with hose clamps on the ends. Maybe $2 worth of parts. I didn't drain all the fluid out because I wanted to keep it lubricated and rust free. I just pulled a little fluid out of the rack, maybe turn the wheel to 9 o'clock, and 3 o'clock.

That still isn't the "right" way to do it, as some people weld the quill shaft, and a bunch of other shit, but it feels great like that.

What cooler is in front of the radiator? The only thing in front of mine is the a/c condensor. I'm not sure what your refering too

STEPHEN

If you look close, you will see a line that curves, kinda like a really big, skewed "S". That is the power steering cooler. It doesn't look like what you would think a cooler would, but that is what it does. You get to clean a bunch of shit up when you remove your p/s right.

I ran mine full. I doubt there's much difference, because whatever is left over in the rack, you're just pushing from one side of the piston to the other. It's the elimination of the pump and lines that make the biggest difference, in my opinion. Removing the belt alone does NOT give you a good idea of what the car will be like without power assist.

http://www.ddearborn.net/images/rx7/008.jpg
Done without PS!!! :)

Damn, if only that pic was more clear. Pretty cool anyway even blurry haha

STEPHEN

Yeah, it wasn't in focus and he had to snap the picture quick. I could probably clean it up a bit in photoshop. :)

:werd:

You're the man, Jules! When ya comin' out our way to visit :)?

Man, I need to come out that way and pay you guys a visit in the worst way. Brews on me!!! :beerchug:
Gotham looking for anyone? :)
Time for a career change, you guys need a dyno or mandrel bender?

I'd love to come out that way. Matter of fact me and Phillip (Herblenny on the forum) talked about taking a road trip out there.

You know when I was 1yr old to 5yr old we lived in Euless (sp?). Dont know what thats like now a days, my understanding is there wasnt much to it back then, cours that was like 23-28 yrs ago lol. I wonder if I could find the house we used to live in and see what it looks like. It was across the street from a elementary school

STEPHEN

My apologies for stealing some of Bob's thunder, but he just got a converted FD rack from Maval Gear (I've posted the contact information and cost in other threads), and I thought it was appropriate to post a picture of the modifications in this thread.

Both fittings on the center tube were removed and it appears as though they welded closed and milled off some of the material around the pinion shaft.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...postid=2884341

Shoot me an email---- Rich@GothamRacing.com

Jim i know that you posted the price in your other thread but being that it is 120+ pages is there any way you could give us a price here?

Thanks
~Luke

Is there anybody else besides Gotham Racing that carries that p/s line loop?????

Actually, I've posted it in a couple other threads too. :)

Here's one...
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ght=maval+gear

$165 + $60 core charge. Send them your rack and you can eliminate the core charge. Bob said it took about 3-4 weeks to deliver and that total cost was about $240 shipped.

Crooked Willow Racing used to (and possibly still does) sell a power steering bypass loop.

http://www.crookedwillow.com/products.htm

I have the crooked willow p/s loop and I love having no p/s!!!

Yea, I knew they did the but Crooked Willow one is $75 so I just got the one from Gotham Racing for $35.

That way I figured if I didnt like it I'm only out $35, or basically nothing haha

Jim- thanks for the updated info on Maval Gear conversion. I wonder if they really do anything internally or if they really just block it all off. Hmmm

STEPHEN

You can't block off the fittings without doing something internally. The internal piston has to have a way to move air or fluid from one side to the other, so it has to be removed or the resistance would be extreme and only breaking its seal would allow it to move in either direction. They also weld the quill (input) shaft to eliminate the ~5° of freeplay, I believe.

I talked with Jim about a month ago and decided to get the Maval steering rack. Just arrived today!

Very nice piece and Jim is right about the internal altercations that Maval does to the rack. David at Maval also meantioned to me that the rack is greased rather than cap'd with small amount of fluid left inside.

While doing some work on my FD tonight, I broke my PS pulley. :( So....out it came! The POS, is'nt hard to break, and I'm begining to think it was cracked before I started working on it. It allways made a clicking sound....O well, now to get a loop line.

After tearing into that stuff, I began to think that maybe I don't need AC either. What do you guys think. ;) CJ

No, you don't need it.

Especially in Oregon.

Dump it man, both together, including all associated crap is 52 lb total.

Jim,

I'm pretty interested in this, as the 5deg of free play has always annoyed the shit out of me.

Can they do custom ratios however?

Nice drift....
so it means i can just loop the P/S hose without change anything , when i want to remove the P/S pump, right ??

No.

That was a little ambiguous Jim.

Am unable to process this answer "no." :(

It looks pretty straight forward, once you get the AC compressor out of their, and all the brakets and stuff. I may have to give Gotham a call soon. CJ

OK. Fuck no. :D

Well I guess I'm just going to have to approach that ratio from a different perspective. Maybe a new wheel:


http://www.intplay.com/images/G02023.gif

BTW I just sent my rack to Maval (thanks Jim and Bob for the info). Dave at Maval said they have been unable to find cores anywhere so you'll have to provide them with a rack to modify.

Oh, I also have 1 used CWR P/S loop for sale, if anyone's interested.

had to send them mine as well...
as they had no cores available..