Don't know. I've never ran ducting to my brakes. I do know, however, that people rarely have fading problems when running full track pads, even with the stock brakes. That will depend on how much power the car is making, experience of driver, track layout, and condition of braking system as a whole. I know John Magnusson runs ducting on his car...I don't know if he ran it before upgrading the fronts to the Wilwood setup.

I'm going to try some Hawk HP+ pads and some SS brake lines and some new brake fluid before I resort to the Big Brake Kit. I'm actually sending Jason an email right now to buy this stuff...

Jpandes, I'm real glad nothing real bad happened. I remember my first time at the track. 80K miles, stock twins and motor, all sorts of worries going through my head lol. But before I could sweat anymore about it, the instructor took me for a couple of laps in HIS 80's Beemer w/ some crazy tires (R-compounds?) on it. I swear to God I almost wet my pants a couple of times cuz of how fast he was taking the turns in what looked like to be an old hooptie lol.

By the time we got into the FD and I was the one driving, I was so scared, I had every car passing me lol. I got more confident as time went on though, and eventually started to test the limits of the 285s in the rear (to which the instructor was like "wow...you must really have some very wide tires in the back, because the guy before you was slipping and sliding all over the track at these speeds) hehe. Oh and I had already upgraded my pads and rotors (Gotham's x-drilled & slotted brembos, plus they were zinc & cryotreated). Long story short, I learned soo much about the car, and was HOOKED. All's well that ends well man. As long as you keep comin back driving the car home in one piece, it's all smiles in my book :)

~Ramy

PS: I'm jealous...you get to hit the track w/ Tyler :p:

HP+ are not a real track pad. I could do only a couple hard laps at full speed before the pads would overheat and I would have to baby them. If you're running on real racetracks there's nothing you can do other than fit real race pads or drive slow.

A lot of folks around here use thse guys:
http://www.carbotecheng.com/main.htm

You can call then and ask specific questions about what you want and what they have.

Hey Ramy, which track did you go to??

Yes, I did run the stock brakes with Porterfield R4 racing pads for some time. At first they were fine and still would be at tracks that are not hard on brakes. But once I started pushing the car really hard they just didn't hold up at certain tracks. I remember melting my pads and boiling my brake fluid pretty badly at laguna seca (top quality pads and fluid).

I changed to 13" front rotors with Wilwood calipers and the RZ rear brakes. This helped but I'd still get fade if I really beat my car hard. So I added brakes ducts - N-tech backing plates with custom front inlets. Works great. If I was to do it again I'd try ducting the stock brakes first before going to bigger brakes.

On a side note since the starter of this thread said his brakes were going away but his pedal was still stiff I'd say he was just suffering from crappy brake pads and not overtemping the rest of the brake system. Just swapping in a good track specific pad would make a world of difference in my opinion. Street pads just don't cut it on the track.

What was your top speed at the track?

Track Stuff
 

A few links below to some track / club events. Did a track masters even myself at Laguna and found some tires. Now have to replace the right front fender and a little touching up to the rear qtr panel.

I have done quite a few events with no big hiccups until last Friday. Was able to get home safely though...Benicia.

Check these out for more track time...(Thunderhill, Infinion, Laguna, Fernley..)

www.trackmasters-racing.com
www.castrep.com/PrivateTrackDay
www.ncracing.org

I had just put it up for sale the night before....looking to get a Lotus Elise.... however putting the RX into the tires made me think it is cheper to fix than a 50k Elise....

*******

93 FD
M2 Roll Cage
M2 Chip
M2 Exhaust
M2 Cold Air INtake
SR Intercooler
CCW Wheels
275's on all corners ( Hoosiers) Not sticky enough...HEHEHE

More Track Stuff
 

I have the stock rotors with the HP + pads. Work pretty good, however at Thunder Hill, they suffer a bit.

Recomend stainless lines and bleed and purge brakes prior to every event.

During my recovery from Laguna I am going to replace the stock rotors with the slotted drilled ones ...

Before and after pictures...tires were probably a little cold still... tried to counter steer, no luck, lifted off the throttle like an idiot and ...the spin was unstoppable....

Indianapolis (@ Rotary Revolution :D ) and we have Summit Point locally. Only about 45 min away. I'd love to go out to VIR one weekend...

John, not to take away from the thread, but do you have any further info about this ducting you did? A thread link? Or maybe if you could PM me further info?

I've experienced this, but w/ my FB :D I know I have crappy pads, but I thought it was essentially "heat fade" (I believe that's the term) b/c the crappy pads can't handle that high of a temp? I still have lots of meat left on the pads, and once they cooled down a bit, they worked 100% again.

Thanks for the great advice and encouragement. Getting on the track was awesome. I can wait to get back out there. It just sucks that my car has so many littlr issues that I surfaced after one day on the track.

~ Brakes/Pads/Need SS lines/New fliud.
~ Suspension Bushings(I knew these were bad)
Just fixed the sway bar end-link and replaced IC coupler.

* Oh yeah, I Need to learn how to drive better;)


Here are some pics from the pits of some of the cool cars...:uploaded to ofoto

Take your time on getting stickier tires. You'll learn faster on street tires. You give up ultimate grip, but street tires have more gradual break away at the limit. They inspire more confidence. When you master the street tire, you'll be MUCH faster on sticky tires and you'll have more car control experience to handle their more sudden break away.

I have to disagree with this statement. I find that an R compound track tire behaves in a much more predictable and forgiving manner than an overheated street tire. Many others would agree with me. Personally I don't think street tires are very safe on the track if you're going to push the car really hard.

Sure... here is a link to what I posted about the ducts:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/pictures-my-custom-brake-duct-inlets-397125/

Here is a link about the brake kit:

https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/yes-m2-wilwood-13-brake-kit-actually-fits-under-stock-16-fd-wheels-298706/

Feel free to PM me or e-mail me at rx73rdgen@aol.com with any specific questions.

The key being overheated street tire. As long as the street tires are run at the proper hot pressures and are not terribly (stupidly) abused a decent speed rated street tire will do just fine at the track, especially if it has had 1/4 to 1/2 of its tread already worn off.

John,

You may be right about some tires, but few novices have the line mastered to legitimately out drive their tires.

However, every racing instructor at every event I have attended has recommened learning on street tires. Tire Rack does the same.

I have to agree.

Street tires give newer drivers the "howling" warning as they are nearing the grip limit. R Compound doesn't give as much warning (hardly any) before it loses grip. For novice drivers, I too recommend street tires so they can learn to hear and feel the car.

jpandes,

Glad to hear you enjoyed it. However, you just experience what everyone goes through: the track finding all the weaknesses of your car. ;)

People just don't imagine how hard these cars run on the track, even when you aren't pushing it, as compared to spirited street driving. It's just not the same. :)

Look forward to seeing some future action shots from you! :bigthumb:

I think I'm going to take John Magnuson's advice and try out the N-tech BRake ducts before I go BIG and buy a big brake kit. $300.00 vs. $3000.00

RX-7 FD (93-95) Brake Backing Plate/Inlet Ducts, FD3S, stock
PN:NT00139 $225.00
Brake backing plate that fits into the rotor, sealing it off. Plate has a 3" inlet duct attached, to allow cool air from the front of the car to be ducted to them. We have been able to route ducting that does not touch the front tires on the car. Ducting hose sold separately($60.00).

http://www.ntechengineering.com/images/nt00139.jpg

Thanks for the comments on the tires. I learn on the street tires. I like having the forewarning of the tire howl.

jpandes,

I would recommend going with a track pad on the fronts before going for the brake ducts. As rynberg has mentioned, the N-Tech Lapping Day pad is ideal. I originally thought the same thing as you; get the brake ducts. I contacted Nick at N-Tech for the ducts, but he convinced me to go with the Lapping Day pads before the brake ducts (both are his products and he was telling me to go the cheaper route). He was right though! ;)

spindoctor - Sorry to hear of your incident. I had the pleasure of driving a student's Elise at the track this weekend, very nice car. Very easy to drive fast straight out of the box. Seemed a little underpowered at times (even compared to my stock FD), but that could have been my infamiliarity with shift points.

I too have Nick's ducts. Haven't measured the temp differences, but the difference is large enough to feel in the ambient air just outside the wheel after a hard session.

If you're running stock-ish power levels track pads (Hawk Blues are another option to the N-tech pads) will probably be fine, running larger power levels or sticky tires will require more brakes (larger discs or ducts).

I agree with the above. Just try some good track pads first. That makes the biggest difference. Then if you still have problems try the ducts.