My first Track Day... A humbling experience.
And quite frustrating...
I went to Infineon Raceway(Sears Point) and did a track-day with the Jim Russell Racing school(http://www.jimrussellusa.com/driving.../trackdays.php) I'll start with the positive things first: 1.) I didn't pop my motor 2.) I didn't crash/damage my car 3.) I was able to drive myself home and not need towing 4.) Great instruction...many things learned 5.) Good Instructor-to-Student Ratio (7 instructors-to-18 drivers) 6.) Saw some pretty sweet high-end cars on track(mostly from behind:mad:) I got some good pics too. ~Fully Modded GT2 which may have been supercharged driven by some chubby guy named Boris. ~Carrera Cabrio Supercharged with Slicks ~Supercharged NSX ~C6 Corvette ~Chrysler 300 SRT-8...this fucker was a BEAST. 4100+lbs with 425fwhp. This car was fast. ~3 BMW M3's ~Dinan 5 S2 ~"Something" 7. It looked British and only weighed 1000lbs. w/ 240 rwhp driven a by a guy that looked just like Sammy Davis Jr. ~and some other cars...Mustangs, Camaros, stock 911, s2000 etc. This was my first time taking my FD out on the track. I was nervous to say the least. I didn't want to smash my car into the wall or pop my motor. I learned a lot about my car today. I whoel shit-load of little things went wrong today that sucked up my track time and threw a wet blanket on my enjoyment. Don't get me wrong I had fun but this time. The next track day will be much better. Since I know what to expect. Here's what went wrong: 1.) My rear sway bar end-link broke(again). This happened before I even left SF on the way to the track. My bushings are also shot, so my car didn't insprie much confidence. 2.) I experienced Brake-fade for the first-time! It was the first of six 25 min. track sessions. I was chasing the Porsches, driving aggressively, I was going around 100mph into turn 7, which is basically a big, wide U-turn. The pedal was firm but the brakes weren't grabbing/stopping. This was pretty scary. I let them cool off and went out the rest of the day and tried to drive mellow and stay off the brakes. Gee, I guess I can't just drive like a mad man. I need to upgrade my brakes. 3.) I popped my hood after the second session and saw oil every where under the hood and on LIM and TB. Th It turned out to be the 3/8" oil line off the filler neck. I had to drive 15 mins to a gas station to buy a $2 hose clamp. I'm glad that it wasn't something major. 4.) And what finally did me in was a stupid IC coupler. lIt popped off while I was on the track and I thought I blew my motor! It would run but it had about half the power. It was the coupler between the Greddy elbow and the pipe to the SMIC. It popped off during the 5th session and I just couldn't get thing to stay on. I ended up just leaving early. It was a learning experience. There are so many little things that I take for granted with my 13 year-old FD that just work fine on the street, But get it on the track and the little things start to go wrong... I'll be better prepared for the next track event. Just my .02 |
Hey John, glad you could make it out to an event....sorry for all your problems, but the track does tend to bring these types of problems to life. At least it wasn't anything serious! :D
Now that you've got your first taste of the track, want to start hitting events with me? :) |
Originally Posted by rynberg
Hey John, glad you could make it out to an event....sorry for all your problems, but the track does tend to bring these types of problems to life. At least it wasn't anything serious! :D
Now that you've got your first taste of the track, want to start hitting events with me? :) Hell yeah! That was a blast. I just need to take care of these issues and get more seat time. Just let me know when you are going. I'm in... J |
Sounds like fun mishaps aside. I bet the SRT-8 was a bit of a handful around the track, putting that power down through an open diff.
Also, how'd the C6 fair? I see them almost daily around here and a few Z06s a week, one of the perks of living around Detroit :). |
lots of good info there. now i'll know what to check for before my first track event... and what to expect with my worn pillow bushings.
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Originally Posted by jpandes
6.) Saw some pretty sweet high-end cars on track(mostly from behind:mad:) I got some good pics too.
Tell me you took pics in the paddock and not from the cockpit :D The important thing is you made it through your first time without any big mishaps. On the other hand you learn real fast that there is no such thing as a "small" problem when at the track. Gotta have her buttoned up tight before you even leave the garage. |
Originally Posted by ROTARYFDTT
Sounds like fun mishaps aside. I bet the SRT-8 was a bit of a handful around the track, putting that power down through an open diff.
Also, how'd the C6 fair? I see them almost daily around here and a few Z06s a week, one of the perks of living around Detroit :). On a side note, his left front tire was basically trashed by the end of the day. I guess that 4100+ lbs took it's toll. |
Originally Posted by jpandes
"Something" 7. It looked British and only weighed 1000lbs. w/ 240 rwhp driven a by a guy that looked just like Sammy Davis Jr.
Glad you had fun! It sounds fabulous. |
the "something" seven is a caterham super seven, weighs around 500kgs and is a kit car - has a higher power to weight ratio than an FD even when it has the standard 1.4 engine in it hahaha.
Awesome cars, nothing really can match them for handling. http://www.madmotors.com/images/seven.gif |
Originally Posted by BobfisH
the "something" seven is a caterham super seven, weighs around 500kgs and is a kit car - has a higher power to weight ratio than an FD even when it has the standard 1.4 engine in it hahaha.
Awesome cars, nothing really can match them for handling. http://www.madmotors.com/images/seven.gif |
Awesome post! Thanks for sharing. Sorry that some things held you back, but I'm sure it was a lot of fun. Get those things buttoned up and start taking names:)
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Originally Posted by ROTARYFDTT
Sounds like fun mishaps aside. I bet the SRT-8 was a bit of a handful around the track, putting that power down through an open diff.
Also, how'd the C6 fair? I see them almost daily around here and a few Z06s a week, one of the perks of living around Detroit :). |
Originally Posted by DamonB
I'm picturing some nutter in an FD going 100+ down the straightaway, one hand on the wheel and another holding a camera to his nose snapping pictures :p:
Tell me you took pics in the paddock and not from the cockpit :D The important thing is you made it through your first time without any big mishaps. On the other hand you learn real fast that there is no such thing as a "small" problem when at the track. Gotta have her buttoned up tight before you even leave the garage. |
I was just about to call you and see how it went. What were the temps out there? 90*?
I knew your brakes would not be up to par. I hope you weren't running on street pads.... HP+ at the minimum. The big U turn is turn 11..... but turn 7 is one also and can be a tricky late braking zone. I've run off there a few times and had to go wide. http://www.infineonraceway.com/image...eating_web.jpg Sucks about the rear sway bar mount breaking..... and you knew about the pillow ball bushings.... git to work :) 1st time at the track always brings out the weak points. At least you didn't have cooling problems. Next time come out to a NASA HPDE event. $149/day There are quite a few left in Sept/Oct and November. -Mark |
That's awesome. I'd love to do that. Anyone know where I can get a "track day" like that in the mid-east states?
The Caterham is based on the '60s Lotus Super Seven. I always wanted one. Something so low you can drag your knuckles on the ground. |
I want to go on a track day, we have a couple big ass tracks in CO, I will check and see if they do that sort of thing. sounds fun as shit. I also want to more about that super 7 kit car, anyone know where I can find some info?
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Originally Posted by mibad
That's awesome. I'd love to do that. Anyone know where I can get a "track day" like that in the mid-east states?
The Caterham is based on the '60s Lotus Super Seven. I always wanted one. Something so low you can drag your knuckles on the ground. Summit point raceway has fatt (friday at the track), here's the school that runs it http://www.bsr-inc.com/SCHEDREC.HTM, and the track site is http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/. |
Originally Posted by jayk
Summit point raceway has fatt (friday at the track), here's the school that runs it http://www.bsr-inc.com/SCHEDREC.HTM, and the track site is http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/.
Great. Thanks. I'm going to look into it. As far as the Caterham 7's go, they aren't the only company that produce the super 7 replicas. I actually have a book on building your own from scratch. I'll look for it when I get home from work. You can also find them already built on ebay or Hemmings. Another bad ass replica is the Beck 550 Spyder. A replica of the infamous James Dean type Porshe. |
Oh, and jpandes, I feel your pain. I put in a new intercooler and pfc a week before going to the track last weekend. I turned up the boost to 12 psi, blew off my bov, a small hose off the y-pipe output, and for the grand finale split the coupler off the y-pipe.
I decided to just turn down the boost to 8psi and not push the car, really made me appreciate how fast 1st gen rx-7s and miatas can be! Or maybe how slow I am in a corner and how much of a crutch the speed of the car is... |
My co-worker with the brown supercharged mustang was there. He had alot of fun. Don't sweat the FD breaking down. Everytime I've gone to track with the FD, I've had a minor problem. Good thing your engine didn't blow, I've know quite a few people who have blown their engines at the road course.
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That sounds like a fun day. I've been asked to go out to Buttonwillow in Bakersfield for a track day, i have somethings i need to clean up first.
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A pad upgrade may be adequate for your next few track days. I have my 4th and 5th events of the year this fall, I can hardly wait.
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What pad are best suited for both Street & Track?
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Originally Posted by jpandes
What pad are best suited for both Street & Track?
The best way to go is to run good street pads on the street and swap in some of Ntech's Lapping Day pads or similar in the fronts for track days. I've heard the N-techs are quite "streetable" to get to the track with. Your rears should be fine with street pads. |
Originally Posted by rynberg
None, LOL. The Hawk HP+, Axxiss Ultimates are probably OK for your first several track events -- IF you are not overdriving the car...:)
How much of an improvment do you think he would have if he had ducting for the front breaks with stock rotors and pads? |
Originally Posted by t-von
How much of an improvment do you think he would have if he had ducting for the front breaks with stock rotors and pads?
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I'm going to try some Hawk HP+ pads and some SS brake lines and some new brake fluid before I resort to the Big Brake Kit. I'm actually sending Jason an email right now to buy this stuff...
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Jpandes, I'm real glad nothing real bad happened. I remember my first time at the track. 80K miles, stock twins and motor, all sorts of worries going through my head lol. But before I could sweat anymore about it, the instructor took me for a couple of laps in HIS 80's Beemer w/ some crazy tires (R-compounds?) on it. I swear to God I almost wet my pants a couple of times cuz of how fast he was taking the turns in what looked like to be an old hooptie lol.
By the time we got into the FD and I was the one driving, I was so scared, I had every car passing me lol. I got more confident as time went on though, and eventually started to test the limits of the 285s in the rear (to which the instructor was like "wow...you must really have some very wide tires in the back, because the guy before you was slipping and sliding all over the track at these speeds) hehe. Oh and I had already upgraded my pads and rotors (Gotham's x-drilled & slotted brembos, plus they were zinc & cryotreated). Long story short, I learned soo much about the car, and was HOOKED. All's well that ends well man. As long as you keep comin back driving the car home in one piece, it's all smiles in my book :) ~Ramy PS: I'm jealous...you get to hit the track w/ Tyler :p: |
HP+ are not a real track pad. I could do only a couple hard laps at full speed before the pads would overheat and I would have to baby them. If you're running on real racetracks there's nothing you can do other than fit real race pads or drive slow.
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A lot of folks around here use thse guys:
http://www.carbotecheng.com/main.htm You can call then and ask specific questions about what you want and what they have. |
Hey Ramy, which track did you go to??
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Don't know. I've never ran ducting to my brakes. I do know, however, that people rarely have fading problems when running full track pads, even with the stock brakes. That will depend on how much power the car is making, experience of driver, track layout, and condition of braking system as a whole. I know John Magnusson runs ducting on his car...I don't know if he ran it before upgrading the fronts to the Wilwood setup.
I changed to 13" front rotors with Wilwood calipers and the RZ rear brakes. This helped but I'd still get fade if I really beat my car hard. So I added brakes ducts - N-tech backing plates with custom front inlets. Works great. If I was to do it again I'd try ducting the stock brakes first before going to bigger brakes. On a side note since the starter of this thread said his brakes were going away but his pedal was still stiff I'd say he was just suffering from crappy brake pads and not overtemping the rest of the brake system. Just swapping in a good track specific pad would make a world of difference in my opinion. Street pads just don't cut it on the track. |
What was your top speed at the track?
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Track Stuff
A few links below to some track / club events. Did a track masters even myself at Laguna and found some tires. Now have to replace the right front fender and a little touching up to the rear qtr panel.
I have done quite a few events with no big hiccups until last Friday. Was able to get home safely though...Benicia. Check these out for more track time...(Thunderhill, Infinion, Laguna, Fernley..) www.trackmasters-racing.com www.castrep.com/PrivateTrackDay www.ncracing.org I had just put it up for sale the night before....looking to get a Lotus Elise.... however putting the RX into the tires made me think it is cheper to fix than a 50k Elise.... ******* 93 FD M2 Roll Cage M2 Chip M2 Exhaust M2 Cold Air INtake SR Intercooler CCW Wheels 275's on all corners ( Hoosiers) Not sticky enough...HEHEHE |
More Track Stuff
4 Attachment(s)
I have the stock rotors with the HP + pads. Work pretty good, however at Thunder Hill, they suffer a bit.
Recomend stainless lines and bleed and purge brakes prior to every event. During my recovery from Laguna I am going to replace the stock rotors with the slotted drilled ones ... Before and after pictures...tires were probably a little cold still... tried to counter steer, no luck, lifted off the throttle like an idiot and ...the spin was unstoppable.... |
Originally Posted by 2Lucky2tha7
Hey Ramy, which track did you go to??
Originally Posted by John Magnuson
So I added brakes ducts - N-tech backing plates with custom front inlets. Works great. If I was to do it again I'd try ducting the stock brakes first before going to bigger brakes.
On a side note since the starter of this thread said his brakes were going away but his pedal was still stiff I'd say he was just suffering from crappy brake pads and not overtemping the rest of the brake system. |
Thanks for the great advice and encouragement. Getting on the track was awesome. I can wait to get back out there. It just sucks that my car has so many littlr issues that I surfaced after one day on the track.
~ Brakes/Pads/Need SS lines/New fliud. ~ Suspension Bushings(I knew these were bad) Just fixed the sway bar end-link and replaced IC coupler. * Oh yeah, I Need to learn how to drive better;) Here are some pics from the pits of some of the cool cars...:uploaded to ofoto |
Take your time on getting stickier tires. You'll learn faster on street tires. You give up ultimate grip, but street tires have more gradual break away at the limit. They inspire more confidence. When you master the street tire, you'll be MUCH faster on sticky tires and you'll have more car control experience to handle their more sudden break away.
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Originally Posted by technonovice
Take your time on getting stickier tires. You'll learn faster on street tires. You give up ultimate grip, but street tires have more gradual break away at the limit. They inspire more confidence. When you master the street tire, you'll be MUCH faster on sticky tires and you'll have more car control experience to handle their more sudden break away.
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Originally Posted by FDNewbie
John, not to take away from the thread, but do you have any further info about this ducting you did? A thread link? Or maybe if you could PM me further info?
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/pictures-my-custom-brake-duct-inlets-397125/ Here is a link about the brake kit: https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/yes-m2-wilwood-13-brake-kit-actually-fits-under-stock-16-fd-wheels-298706/ Feel free to PM me or e-mail me at rx73rdgen@aol.com with any specific questions. |
Originally Posted by John Magnuson
I have to disagree with this statement. I find that an R compound track tire behaves in a much more predictable and forgiving manner than an overheated street tire.
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Originally Posted by John Magnuson
I have to disagree with this statement. I find that an R compound track tire behaves in a much more predictable and forgiving manner than an overheated street tire. Many others would agree with me. Personally I don't think street tires are very safe on the track if you're going to push the car really hard.
You may be right about some tires, but few novices have the line mastered to legitimately out drive their tires. However, every racing instructor at every event I have attended has recommened learning on street tires. Tire Rack does the same. |
Originally Posted by technonovice
However, every racing instructor at every event I have attended has recommened learning on street tires. Tire Rack does the same.
Street tires give newer drivers the "howling" warning as they are nearing the grip limit. R Compound doesn't give as much warning (hardly any) before it loses grip. For novice drivers, I too recommend street tires so they can learn to hear and feel the car. |
Originally Posted by jpandes
Thanks for the great advice and encouragement. Getting on the track was awesome. I can wait to get back out there. It just sucks that my car has so many littlr issues that I surfaced after one day on the track.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. However, you just experience what everyone goes through: the track finding all the weaknesses of your car. ;) People just don't imagine how hard these cars run on the track, even when you aren't pushing it, as compared to spirited street driving. It's just not the same. :) Look forward to seeing some future action shots from you! :bigthumb: |
I think I'm going to take John Magnuson's advice and try out the N-tech BRake ducts before I go BIG and buy a big brake kit. $300.00 vs. $3000.00
RX-7 FD (93-95) Brake Backing Plate/Inlet Ducts, FD3S, stock PN:NT00139 $225.00 Brake backing plate that fits into the rotor, sealing it off. Plate has a 3" inlet duct attached, to allow cool air from the front of the car to be ducted to them. We have been able to route ducting that does not touch the front tires on the car. Ducting hose sold separately($60.00). http://www.ntechengineering.com/images/nt00139.jpg Thanks for the comments on the tires. I learn on the street tires. I like having the forewarning of the tire howl. |
jpandes,
I would recommend going with a track pad on the fronts before going for the brake ducts. As rynberg has mentioned, the N-Tech Lapping Day pad is ideal. I originally thought the same thing as you; get the brake ducts. I contacted Nick at N-Tech for the ducts, but he convinced me to go with the Lapping Day pads before the brake ducts (both are his products and he was telling me to go the cheaper route). He was right though! ;) |
spindoctor - Sorry to hear of your incident. I had the pleasure of driving a student's Elise at the track this weekend, very nice car. Very easy to drive fast straight out of the box. Seemed a little underpowered at times (even compared to my stock FD), but that could have been my infamiliarity with shift points.
I too have Nick's ducts. Haven't measured the temp differences, but the difference is large enough to feel in the ambient air just outside the wheel after a hard session. If you're running stock-ish power levels track pads (Hawk Blues are another option to the N-tech pads) will probably be fine, running larger power levels or sticky tires will require more brakes (larger discs or ducts). |
I agree with the above. Just try some good track pads first. That makes the biggest difference. Then if you still have problems try the ducts.
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