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Modding My FD - Comments Please (Target 300HP)
I bought an FD recently and I'd like to do some modest power modifications to it. I'm very happy with the way the car delivers power, I'd just like a little more of it. With this in mind, I think I would be more than happy with 280-300HP at the wheels. After reading the various threads around here I'd like to use the following setup. If anyone has any suggestions for parts that would be better suited, please chime in. Mid-pipes are unfortunately not an option as I need to have my car e-tested every 2 years and I would definitely like to stay sequential.
In more or less the following order: -RX-7 Store downpipe -Racing Beat Catback -Aluminium AST -PowerFC (For ECU Tune and Boost Controlling) -Larger sized SMIC -Koyo Dual Pass Rad (For reliability if the situation calls for it) I'm undecided on intakes. My experience from piston engined N/A sports cars has me almost convinced that adding an intake just makes a cool noise and lets the motor suck in hot air and not yeilding any real power gain. Am I incorrect? Separate from power mods I was also wondering 2 things: 1) I'm having an issue with my legs hitting the steering wheel, really in no matter what position I adjust the seat. Is there an adaptor to bring the stock wheel out a bit further? Is the 2002 style wheel smaller in diameter than the 1993? 2) My Bose Wave system sounds like its on the way out. Is the Mazda Modular system a plug/play swap out? Thanks in advance. |
Do a compression test. I would want to make sure my engine was near it's max available power before making mods.
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Outside the mods you mentioned, I would add a high flow cat (bonez is a functional affordable option). If you keep your air pump, you'll be fine with emissions. if you are going to run near 14 psi you may also want to consider 1200 cc secondary injectors.
I would do some reading regarding what intake you like the most, but I would certainly do something. My experience has been that open intakes are fine, but an M2 style intake would address your concerns. There's also a way to mod the stock aiqrbox to flow more, but keep in mind that it doesn't fit with the larger SMICs. With all that you should reach those power numbers no problem. I made 300rwhp on basically the same set-up at 14psi. |
Originally Posted by millennm
(Post 10324364)
Do a compression test. I would want to make sure my engine was near it's max available power before making mods.
Is there a significant advantage in heat reduction in the engine bay to be had with ceramic coating the downpipe? |
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324348)
I bought an FD recently and I'd like to do some modest power modifications to it. I'm very happy with the way the car delivers power, I'd just like a little more of it. With this in mind, I think I would be more than happy with 280-300HP at the wheels. After reading the various threads around here I'd like to use the following setup. If anyone has any suggestions for parts that would be better suited, please chime in. Mid-pipes are unfortunately not an option as I need to have my car e-tested every 2 years and I would definitely like to stay sequential.
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324348)
In more or less the following order:
-RX-7 Store downpipe -Racing Beat Catback -Aluminium AST -PowerFC (For ECU Tune and Boost Controlling) -Larger sized SMIC -Koyo Dual Pass Rad (For reliability if the situation calls for it)
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324348)
I'm undecided on intakes. My experience from piston engined N/A sports cars has me almost convinced that adding an intake just makes a cool noise and lets the motor suck in hot air and not yeilding any real power gain. Am I incorrect?
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324348)
Separate from power mods I was also wondering 2 things:
1) I'm having an issue with my legs hitting the steering wheel, really in no matter what position I adjust the seat. Is there an adaptor to bring the stock wheel out a bit further? Is the 2002 style wheel smaller in diameter than the 1993?
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324348)
2) My Bose Wave system sounds like its on the way out. Is the Mazda Modular system a plug/play swap out?
Thanks in advance. |
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324392)
Roger that. Forgot to mention that a full slate of maintenance including the miserable fuel filter, compression and boost tuneup will be done.
Is there a significant advantage in heat reduction in the engine bay to be had with ceramic coating the downpipe? |
300whp is a pretty average and easily attainable goal on a correctly modded/tuned FD. The list of mods you have will get you there, just find a REPUTABLE ROTARY tuner. Piston engines are different than rotaries and they require different attention.
Aftermarket intake will do you some good on a turbo engine. Think of the stock airbox and the small opening the turbos are trying to suck air through. It is like breathing through a straw... The bose system is its own strange animal. Look in the audio section for more info but in short, likely you will be replacing the whole system with aftermarket or mazda factory parts that fit. The bose speakers work off of 1ohm (I think that is right) and are nearly impossible to find parts for to fix. Or even replacements. It is a PITA, but you will need to run wires for each speaker and install a headunit. OR a non-amped headunit along with an amp to run the speakers and their wires. The steering wheel is another common problem with FD owners. The solution is to go with an aftermarket wheel and hub adapter. Here:https://miataroadster.com/worksbell.html adapter that comes with the airbag defeat resistor. Then just find you a wheel you like. |
From the FAQ thread stickied in this forum:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/faq-3rd-gen-other-useful-links-68640/ Is this helpful post from DGeesman: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...38&postcount=6
Originally Posted by dgeesaman
(Post 8003838)
17) What mods do I need to make 300hp? 400hp? 500hp?
Since stock power levels already push the limits of the car, begin with maintenance items: fuel filter, tranny and differential oil, spark plugs and wires, coolant change, injector cleaning, bleed brakes, replace fuel pulsation damper, coolant hoses, etc. Next, install reliability modifications (alternate list) to correct weaknesses in the factory design: all-aluminum radiator, downpipe, aluminum AST or AST elimination, vacuum hose job, boost gauge, coolant temp gauge, modify cooling fans by thermoswitch replacement or manual control, and others. Finally, it is time to add power mods. FDs respond to power modifications and tuning but can’t handle more than a couple bolt-on power mods until fuel, boost levels, and re-tuning are considered. This advice isn’t meant to slow down your progress, but to ensure you don’t destroy your car. It’s happened many times before, and with modified engines pushing the limits of the stock engine systems, the reliability mods become necessities. See this thread for further info. i) 300HP can be achieved with some bolt-on mods and piggy-back ECU tuning. For example, Pettit Racing offers a +60hp package for under $1500. M2 Performance has a 290HP kit for $2000, and 315HP kit for $3500. 300hp already exceeds the stock ECU’s fuel maps, so the list includes a remapped ECU as well as intake, exhaust, and intercooler upgrades. Any similar set of quality bolt-on will yield similar performance. Any power beyond this point is difficult to pass emissions testing. ii) 400HP – At this point, it gets tougher to keep the power on the road, so upgraded tires and suspension should also be considered. One fellow planned his path to 400hp in advance to be $10k plus installation time. This list of power mods includes full exhaust, intake, upgraded turbos, reliability mods, upgraded fuel and ignition system, engine porting, standalone engine computer and wideband O2 sensor, clutch, intercooler and tuning. Auxiliary injection would make sense at this point to improve reliability. iii) 500HP – See if you can afford 400 first. Tens of thousands have been spent to get and remain in this range. Don’t expect your engine to last long. Update: 500hp still isn't cheap, but with auxiliary injection engine life is greatly improved over past high HP setups. This excellent site is a compilation of modified cars and their dyno performance. Happy reading :icon_tup: :nod: |
Originally Posted by oo7arkman
(Post 10324431)
300whp is a pretty average and easily attainable goal on a correctly modded/tuned FD. The list of mods you have will get you there, just find a REPUTABLE ROTARY tuner. Piston engines are different than rotaries and they require different attention.
Aftermarket intake will do you some good on a turbo engine. Think of the stock airbox and the small opening the turbos are trying to suck air through. It is like breathing through a straw... I have a PFS SMIC and a modified PFS intake which I'm happy with. But there are other good SMICs out there...Blitz, Greddy and others. But any of them will only be as good as the ducting. Search for more info. As for intakes, If I were looking for one, I'd go with an M2 or SR Motorsports intake box. Sourcing ambient air from the nose of the car will make a difference. Modding the stock box is fine, but it won't fit with many aftermarket SMICs. If you have the money, heat-coating the downpipe is a great. Anything to reduce underhood heat is worthwhile. But just as effective IMO is header wrap. Not as pretty, but cheaper and you don't have to remove the DP to install it. I would follow it up with the sealant afterward though. Along with the radiator and other reliability things mentioned, consider relocating the Intake Air Thermosensor (IAT) and changing it out for a faster reacting one. It's simple and relatively inexpensive. A search will tell you more. |
You don't need a super large SMIC for 300hp. You should be able to hit your goals fairly easily. If you need an SMIC though I do happen to have an M2 medium for sale!
On the intake situation, if I were you, I would go with a boxed intake. If you really wanted to get your intake temps down and get more reliability, you could go AI though it is kind of overkill. If you do go with AI, you may be able to stay with the stock SMIC. |
I hit 300whp with a high flow cat, dp, catback, PFS smic/intake and PFC tuned 12psi.
~330whp w/ same but MP, Vmount and 13psi |
Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10324392)
Roger that. Forgot to mention that a full slate of maintenance including the miserable fuel filter, compression and boost tuneup will be done.
Is there a significant advantage in heat reduction in the engine bay to be had with ceramic coating the downpipe? i am going through same situation as u :) however i knoe u have a usdm and i have a jdm.. that aside this is what i have blitz air intake with KnN air filters.. there is a metal sheet so the hot air from rad doesnt get sucked in greddy SMIC ksp exhaust with resonator and a cat knightsports boost controller stock flashed ecu by knightsports to be honest with you i have never dynoed my car and i am happy with the power she makes and still i am going for more power and the same goal as u to achieve 300hp to the wheels at least ..with 11psi of boost this is my list if it helps you 1. power fc (new) 2. hks downpipe and midpipe.. cat will b gone 3. hks twin power 4. set of pulleys 5. greddy spark plugs .. new plug wires 6. koyo rad 7. som other minor mods hope that will make my fd more reliable and bring it to 300hp :) |
3" Downpipe
3" Catback Supra Fuel Pump Delete AST Pettit ECU AEM Water meth kit Whatever IC you choose HKS Twin Power It can easily be done for $1500.00 and be just as reliable as stock. |
+1 to what everybody said
and add a 2nd oil cooler for extra reliability if you only have one. |
Originally Posted by djseven
(Post 10324734)
3" Downpipe
3" Catback Supra Fuel Pump Delete AST Pettit ECU AEM Water meth kit Whatever IC you choose HKS Twin Power It can easily be done for $1500.00 and be just as reliable as stock. |
The pettit ecu covers your tuning needs up to 14 psi. If you keep boost under control you won't need a pfc.
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First things I think should be I/c upgrade/ radiator upgrade/ and injectors... I made around 280hp back when my car was fairly stock, at 12 psi I was at 99% injector duty, I hit 100 twice and not a good thing. 1200/1300cc injectors def would of helped, and also my intake temps were up there on a stock I/c, so upgrading that is also a must
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I dyno'd 325RWHP with the stock turbos set at 14-psi, running 4x850cc injectors, and a tune on my PFC by Steve Kan.
Supporting mods include: water injection, HKS twin-power, M2 Medium, Pettit Intake, DP, resonated mid-pipe, and cat-back. :-) neil |
leave the stock I/C in the car and use a water/meth kit for cooling.. mod your stock air box with the adam c intake kit. and get the car tuned for 12 psi I think that will get you around the 300hp mark with you other mods.
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Originally Posted by jeff p
(Post 10329029)
leave the stock I/C in the car and use a water/meth kit for cooling.. mod your stock air box with the adam c intake kit. and get the car tuned for 12 psi I think that will get you around the 300hp mark with you other mods.
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And with the stock restrictive intercooler you will have alot of pressure drop, causing your turbos to work way harder to make 12 psi. at the t-body. Since they're not far from their efficiency range at 12 psi already, a decent SMIC is still recommended IMO.
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Why is this thread even posted? It's pretty easily to get 300 rwhp out of these cars esp. if you actually take the time to search this forum.
I made 290 rwhp at 10 psi with: Down pipe high flow cat catback PFC |
Originally Posted by ArmenMAxx
(Post 10324556)
I hit 300whp with a high flow cat, dp, catback, PFS smic/intake and PFC tuned 12psi.
~330whp w/ same but MP, Vmount and 13psi Going from stock to 300 and then 330, was the performance really noticeable? Was it across the band improvement or more noticeable; low, mid or high range? Thanks and just amped to get going:nod: |
For your leg hitting the steering wheel issue -- have you looked into any aftermarket steering wheels? Because I don't think you'll be able to fix it stock... plus, quick release steering wheels are really cool, anti theft, and you'll be able to maybe find something that'll help you out with that. You want to be as comfortable as possible while driving. I think that's the most important before any other mod.
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why is everyone so into numbers... 300-325-400-500????.. LOL.... these cars are great and fun at stock levels. I wish everyone would work on getting these cars in good running order first and learn how to drive them. most people cant even drive these cars at stock power levels without crashing them.. I dont care about numbers much you will never be happy. you will only want more power its just bragging rights if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by jeff p
(Post 10331699)
why is everyone so into numbers... 300-325-400-500????.. LOL.... these cars are great and fun at stock levels. I wish everyone would work on getting these cars in good running order first and learn how to drive them. most people cant even drive these cars at stock power levels without crashing them.. I dont care about numbers much you will never be happy. you will only want more power its just bragging rights if you ask me.
If I want to scare myself silly with ballistic acceleration, i'll just hop on the liter bike :) |
I'd have to agree with jeff p. This might sound sissy but the rx-7 can be a handful at stock power levels. Driving in a straight line is one thing but knowing how to handle a car as light and capable as the FD can be tricky. Not saying you are not skilled, but it is something to think about. No electronic aids. With stock tires and wheels you will be in a traction limited situation very quickly. Stay out of the rain.
A flat bottom steering wheel might help but you'll probably lose your airbag. Besides reliability mods the only modifications I've done are an HKS downpipe, K&N drop in filter and an AEM water injection system. The dp and h20 kit double as reliability mods. With stock wheels/tires my car burns rubber through first and breaks free again in 2nd at full boost on the primary turbo. Things can get hairy pretty fast. Once you get your car go with your plan and get all the reliability stuff done. Take it one modification at a time so you can not only enjoy it more but know where to start troubleshooting if something goes wrong which it certainly could. In my opinion everybody should have a downpipe (get one that maintains the factory exhaust hanger on the transmission) and a water injection system regardless of boost levels. It can make up for a stock intercooler and warm weather and can protect you if you get into an overboost situation you are not tuned for. |
Originally Posted by adamrs80
(Post 10332150)
A flat bottom steering wheel might help but you'll probably lose your airbag.
I hear you on the Aux Injection. I've been re-reading Howard Coleman's thread about "High Definition" injection and it certainly sounds interesting. Might be something for the to do list down the road. |
Originally Posted by adamrs80
(Post 10332150)
and a water injection system regardless of boost levels. can protect you if you get into an overboost situation you are not tuned for.
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Originally Posted by DeAd-EyE
(Post 10332159)
I've started looking into the Works steering wheel spacers offered by A-spec and seeing if there's a way they can function with a stock wheel. That might be the best option.
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This is where it all begins... Happy with 300RWHP? Yes you will be for a while. Wait till you meet a friend with a 500HP monster... the bug will get you.. ;) Happy modding!
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LOL....300-400-500-600-1000 hp someone contact NASA its time to launch.... LOL it will never stop. just fix the car up the way you want it and enjoy it dont worry about numbers so much.
Jeff |
I have the following mods. Racing Beat cb, Bonez dp, PF intercooler, M2 intake, fuel pump, PFC. Tuned to 295 rwhp I do have a Koyo radiator, Banzai Diff brace and a metal AST.
Hope that helps. |
I think that's kinda low for thos mods^^^ maybe ran out of fuel issue(need bigger injectors?)
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Originally Posted by KKMpunkrock2011
(Post 10332258)
not really, meth injection can, all water does is cool down the combustion chamber. Losing your motor from over boosting is a result of a lean condition. Water does not add any fuel to the combustion mixture. The best way to protect yourself from overboost is having a properly set up map with fuel cut set up properly.
So if you detonate on 91 pump gas, but not say 93, but 93 isn't available in your area, water injection could eliminate your knock. And don't discount the temperature drops water injection provides, the temperature drop can also aid in preventing detonation. Of course, the "proper" solution is a tuned ECU, but water injection alone provides a great safety net. |
Originally Posted by NguyenRX7
(Post 10332356)
I think the spacer is meant for the aftermarket steering wheel only. Bolts up completely different then a stock steering wheel.
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Water injection helps greatly, my temps jump from mid to high 30s- low 40s while cruising to mid-low 20c air temp, and helped me get to 18psi no problem
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Honestly, i've had my FD for a few years now, and it's gone from a hot mess of random mods and a blown coolant seal, to a reliable, autox and track toy... all on stock twins. For what it's worth, here's my thoughts:
300ish hp is tons. Maybe i'm maturing a bit, but i don't get into street drags anymore. Ontario is pretty brutal with street racing penalties, and it's just not worth it, so I don't need the massive power on the street. Twins are nice and driveable, and I drive the car daily in the spring, summer and fall. I auto-x the car, and it has proven very competitive, even with stock dampers and springs. In fact, there is a ton of time to be had with this car. I just don't have the skill to tap into it yet. My friend co-drove with me for this last season, last year he took the club championship, and has moved into the regional series. He's aggressive, and he can find at least 2 seconds over my best time on average. I've just refreshed the pillowballs, and added some adjustable links in the rear. More power isn't the answer, since i regularly break loose and slide the car with 245 width toyo R888's. The response from the twins is great for autox. If you get a properly sized single for similar response and a broad powerband, you'll be happier, i think. Even look into a set of BnR twins... that would be an option. The real bonus to a single comes in simplifying the boost control system, and eliminating heat, unless you're shooting for retarded power, IMO. I also track the car at Mosport, and to be honest, on the Driver Development track, which is a little tighter and really technical, my power levels are perfect. I'm not getting left in the dust, and i can outbrake and stick harder than 85% of people on the track. I'll be spending some time on the GP track this summer, and I may revise my opinion on a bigger turbo, as it may run out of legs on the big straight, but probably not. My Mods: PFS intake & intercoooler, downpipe, power FC, tuned to 14psi, no-brand cat-back, mishimoto rad (tough for fitment), rotary extreme trailing arms & toe links, new pillowballs, Tokico Illuminas w Tein S tech springs, R888's on stock wheels for track, enkei RPF1's with Fuzion Zri's on the street. Regards, Matt |
methinks better ducting and some water/meth injection is the next step.
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You won't regret a water/alc. system. Try to find an hks dp or another hap brand that retains the hanger that drops off the transmission. You will notice a nice power bump.
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Originally Posted by FD3S2005
(Post 10335639)
I think that's kinda low for thos mods^^^ maybe ran out of fuel issue(need bigger injectors?)
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<--- has 2 different downpipes if you want. An HKS JDM downpipe and what I'm pretty sure is an M2 downpipe.
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Originally Posted by Red95FD
(Post 10337208)
What? So the numbers aren't good with those mods?
thats about right for thos mods, at what psi was that power made? and was it stock ports? a friend of mine at the time made about 290 with almost the same exact mods, maybe a different intake and he had a greddy i/c... does the car have a stock ported motor? If you didn't do it already, rewire the fuel pump, so it pumps at 100%. |
Originally Posted by FD3S2005
(Post 10337807)
actually i thought i saw another mod in that list so i thought it should of been more,
thats about right for thos mods, at what psi was that power made? and was it stock ports? a friend of mine at the time made about 290 with almost the same exact mods, maybe a different intake and he had a greddy i/c... does the car have a stock ported motor? If you didn't do it already, rewire the fuel pump, so it pumps at 100%. |
Originally Posted by KKMpunkrock2011
(Post 10337616)
<--- has 2 different downpipes if you want. An HKS JDM downpipe and what I'm pretty sure is an M2 downpipe.
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I didn't read everyone's posts, but 300 wheel hp is perfectly reasonable AND reliable. My car's been at the 290-300 whp (dynojet) level for the last 3 years, about 15-20k miles, daily carbon cleaning, with open track time, couple autocrosses, and 9 1/4 mile drag runs to it's credit... it's been very solid, I already miss it... see my vbgarage link in my sig for mods. Car trapped 108-112 mph in the 1/4 mile (with shitty driver = me :) ).
Just make sure you address all the little things like injector o-rings, coolant hoses, fuel lines, clamps, etc. Get a Power FC and make sure you find a guy who knows how to tune it... run 12-14 psi boost and you're there! I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the dyno numbers though... if you want bragging rights for dyno numbers, you have the wrong motor. I think for most people 300 whp is plenty fun on the street and certainly enough to get you in trouble faster than you think... if you really want to know how fast your car is, take it to the local 1/4 mile track and get some numbers. |
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