Mazda Remans..... the saga continues
 

I've cracked open a few of the 'new' mazda remans for portwork/oil&coolant mods/upgraded apex seals etc since they started assembling them in VA alongside the RX-8 blocks.

Cons:

*Typical loose (but in spec) side seal clearance
*Nasty rust in lower coolant passages from being run with water and left to sit

Pros:

*So far, majority of parts (and all iron/alum housings) have been brand-spankin' new

In general, they're an absolute killer deal.... a pair of rotor housings new cost about half as much as the current reman prices from Ray Crowe at Malloy :nod::icon_tup:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1368631062

I have an extra Mazda Reman sitting in storage that I need to pull apart. Anything I should look out for?

hmmm i cant see 3rd gen remans on my account.

it shows rx8 remans at 2500. but nothing for the 13b.

part number for both was 23-800

Just to confirm... You are saying that the "new" ones are half the price of the remans when both are ordered from Ray at Malloy?

And these are the "new" ones you are showing us ?

I am not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think Rich is saying that you get a screaming deal if you buy a reman from Ray Crowe. Rich's example being that you can get the entire engine (which is constructed with all new parts) for just double what you'd spend on only the rotor housings.

i.e. if each housing costs you $700 + shipping, than you get the brand new housings, brand new irons (at approx $485 each if bought separate), a brand new e-shaft, new rotors, new seals, new oil pan, etc., etc., etc. for SIGNIFICANTLY less than what you would spend if you tried to piece together a new engine.



I spoke with Ray Crowe about this exact thing last fall. Essentially the "new" reman engines that he is getting are being put together with all new parts since none of the cores being turned into Mazda have usable parts. Mazda cannot/will not reuse a part if it has been ported or if the wear is out of spec. Since virtually ALL the engines turned back in to mazda had porting or significant wear, Mazda fell back on using (mostly) all new parts in their reman engines.

Mazda is no longer selling brand new 13B-REW engines (I purchased the last one from Ray :egrin: ) and the remans, with the new parts being used in them, are now a viable option for people who want to renew their tired engines :icon_tup:

It's a good deal if you plan on opening it up to port...then you are looking at an additional cost to replace the o rings and port etc

Oh ok. It makes sense now. For some reason I thought he was comparing reman housings to "new" housings that were actually still reman.

It is reman engine vs new housing. Makes sense. Not sure how I didn't make sense of it before. Sorry :blush:

Thanks for sharing. That is a killer deal for all those new parts.

lets say I bought a reman and cracked it open myself, sent the housings/plates out to get ported and then I put it back together with new soft seals, how much extra expense would that be?

IRP Porting charges are $450 to $650 depending on what you want done, and a 'closeup' kit is about $175.

Does the $450-$650 include the cost of breaking down and rebuilding the engine?

Read the question above his post

Porting costs don't usually include disassembly, that is normally a separate fee.

Did someone mention porting :D?

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1369891149

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1369891149

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1369891149

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1369891149

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1369891149

New housings :awesome::bigthumb:

+ i have a "reman" engine in the garage as well, although it hasnt (nor will it) be opened, it looks brand spanking new. ive never seen a brand new engine but this is what id imagine it'd look like. everything is so crispy and all the irons/housing edges are sharp and clean cut

what's the current price at ray for a reman?
Thinking of buying one and store it for "bad times" ;)

I want to say it's $2,800 plus a $1,000 core charge (so $2,800 with an engine exchange, or $3,800 without) but don't quote me on that just yet.

2800 plus your core .. 3800 without core..just emailed ray week or so ago...
Would it be worth it and in my best interest if I bought a reman to tear it down to check and clean out everything

Yes, it would be a worthwhile purchase. If you plan on porting it and changing the seals thsn def break down and rebuild. If you plan on keeping stock ports/seals than I'd say just flush it out real well and plug it in.

you can easily spot new parts. the freeze plugs in the irons will be new, and have excellent gold cad plating, as will the dipstick tube, all the studs will be new as well, and the gasket surfaces will be shiny and unmarked. new parts are not pained, so if there is paint, or overspray its not new.

the rotor housings are also easy, like the irons they will have new studs, exhaust sleeves will be shiny.

an engine assembled in japan will have the brown japanese tape over all the port openings. the US plant will use those round red plugs

Goodfella for those of us that might buy the reman engines to replace our own, how do we go about removing all that rust without dissasembling the engine?

Alex

Glad i bought my engine from ray when he had new japanese ones!

I can vouch for Richs comments on the rust inside. I flushed a reman from Ray and the coolant was still dirty after running for the first time. Also had a new radiator.

Jeff

The new Japanese ones have the same problem for the same reasons. I've torn down many.

Alex, we take them apart for port work etc which makes cleaning easier. I don't have any crazy idea for flushing a built block that you haven't thought of.

Jeff, appreciate the vouch bud ;)

mine was also brand new (NOT REMAN) and there was quite some rust.

Ihor and Rich took care of it though :)

Are these a cost-effective alternative for someone considering a rebuild? Stock rebuilds seem to be around $4500 at shops in my area, but I imagine that price goes up if hard parts need to be replaced. If one is not looking for port work, is it more cost effective, or better for future reliability, to pay a shop to pick up the reman and just swap it in?

I would say yes. 4500 seems like a high price for a rebuild , but if you are not looking for porting . I think a reman is a very good option . and its the path I would personally take given the chance .

Seems high to me too, but that's what both the shops within a couple hours drive quoted me.

is that with labor of removing , and putting the engine included? or just the rebuild ?

No, whole deal, in and out. Drop off car, pick up car.

yeah thats the issue , it sounds about right for all that .

to flush it out without really harming the seals would probably be 100% distilled water and a bottle of water wetter run through it for a few weeks(preferrably not mid winter) and then flush the water out.

think ill be calling ray for a reman real soon.

Are you talking about the bare keg? Or in the vehicle?

in the vehicle.

^ Doing it in the vehicle and running it like that will cause some of the crap to clog parts of the radiator. I would not recommend running one of these engines unless it has been flushed thoroughly before installing one in a vehicle

i think you underestimate the amount of crap that dislodges itself that is already in the system..

fact is, the engine is one big sludge trap and collects almost everything that can't float freely in the coolant. you likely aren't going to get much out of the engine once it's assembled. nor will it really cause much harm where it tends to collect anyways.

many of these engines were like this from day one.

^ What crap thats in the system?

If the cooling system is maintained properly then there should be no crap in the system. It certainly is not smart to have the attitude that just because it is dirty I should not care and contribute to the problem. That is asinine.


If the engine is removed and the person doing the work notices contamination proper actions should be taken to remove said crap before installing an engine that someone pays minimum $2800 for. Not counting all the external seals, gaskets, and other things people generally replace when working on these cars. Plus their time.


It is really not hard to clean the rest of the cooling system when all of the components are removed from the car except the heater core. But there are easy ways to flush it out while performing the engine swap.


But to say just leave it is just asking for trouble, and bad advice.

when you take an engine apart you see the accumulation spots which always have the sludge i was referring to.

the water jackets are always rusted as well.

yeah it kind of sucks getting an engine you think should be clean but it isn't but all the crap stays where it started and doesn't "plug up the radiator" or other things. how else do you suggest doing it without tearing the engine apart?


i swear you guys are too fucking anal sometimes.

^ have you ever disassembled one of these reman motors?

The rust is loosely attached to the walls and can be easily flushed out.

It is dumb to not take that step before installing the engine.


Regarding being anal: When building a 500hp+ car it is important to pay attention the every detail.

then blow it out with compressed air, beyond that not much else is going to come out.

Deposits like this can easily be flushed out prior to running the engine in the car. Do you want that in your radiator? I sure dont.

Attachment 656982


Look, a passage partially blocked by flakes of rust and "crap". again easily flushed out.


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More flakes of crap



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BTW, these pics are all from my own engine.


Compresed air wont do anything. Water and maybe a solvent of some sort will. I would make a plate to bolt to the WP housing flange on the front iron and feed water through one side and let it flush out the other.

alright, do what makes you feel better. you might get a few small blobs to loosen up but the rest just finds another pocket in the system to settle into without filling the engine with water/degreaser and spinning it around like a washing machine for 10 hours.

looks nasty i know, so does every other engine that gets torn apart, but those cars didn't have plugged up radiators either.

Here is a pic of my engine with 70kmi. In car since 1992.


Look at the coolant passages on the housings and look at my new ones. A properly maintained cooling system does not have crap in it.


Attachment 656981

you will never get a reman engine that has had rust in it to look like that, because you are comparing a mazda reman to a third party rebuild with brand new housings that were never exposed to the same environments. i'm not sure why you are even making that comparison as if i'm trying to say that rust is fine or that what i'm actually trying to say is that it sucks that it's there but it already is and 90% of it is staying right where it is.

Did you not read? The engine above has 70kmi on it. Those housings have 70kmi on them.

you just proved my point :lol:

ok then mazda didn't use the same flushing procedure on the brand new engines(probably none) that they use now on the remans.

but why do you still think that is relevant? you still won't get one of these engines to ever be flushed out and clean like that, ever.

Moral of the story--use distilled water and we wouldn't have all these f'd up housings now.

Recently pulled apart a reman for porting, and upon tearing down the engine rotors discovered that on each rotor one of the outer blue-marked oil control rings springs was UPSIDE DOWN.

Beware guys, I couldn't believe this when I saw it, I do have pics I can post later.

Wow. Please post pics.