Mazda Iconic SP
 

So I haven't logged in in months but had to share this. What does everyone think?

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/10/24/mazda-iconic-sp-rx7-concept-rotary-hybrid-tokyo-show-reveal/


https://youtu.be/988zMcZ5Iv8?si=PeGFZu9MqZ4PC8jG

Looks pretty frickin cool

It's ok but I liked the Vision better.
Also, heavy at 3200 lbs although less than the Supra or 400Z but idk... And is the rotary providing wheel power like the CX-90 PHEV 2.5 4-cyl or is it solely a generator like the MX-30?
​

color me jaded, but I remember what the RX8 was proposed to be, and what it ended up being. Not to mention everything else that came forth since.

and now this, so without further ado, here we go again … :suspect:
.

Hi Team, how is it going

Well it saids it's gonna be RE twin rotor powered generator ...

That's a no for me.

gonna stick with my 8, FD, FC, Luce, Cosmo instead. :)

Not that that will ever make production, fitting timing, the architect of the Rx7 and 8 SP programs, Allan Horsley, just passed away a couple of days ago.

There will be design elements which will reach production. I doubt the drivetrain will ever see the light of day.
we’ll see what happens in the next 2-3yrs. Don’t hold your breath. :)

^Agreed. They are just teasing us again.

One of the Iconic SP pictures shows a display on the dash with drivetrain and car exterior silhouette.

Looks like 2 rotor on a giant bellhousing in front and a torque tube running to the back (no transmission).

Best case scenario is a rotary with flywheel starter/alternator/hybrid motor and a rear transaxle.

No flooded/low compression/hot start proble.s and can limp you to the mehanic if the rotary is dead.

The way power output is stated at 365hp sounds like a NA 16X and 90hp electric motor too.

Rotary with instant torque and response- yes please

It's beautiful... but, I have no interest if the engine isn't connected to the wheels. It will drive like any other EV, and not a sports car. The last thing the world needs right now is another over-sized golf cart.

the MX-30 is a one rotor in front of the electric motor, maybe this is just a 2 rotor version?
longitudinal instead of shortitudinal

here is the blurb

"HIROSHIMA, Japan—Mazda Motor Corporation today unveiled the MAZDA ICONIC SP, a new concept car for the first time at Japan Mobility Show 2023.

MAZDA ICONIC SP is a new type of compact sports car concept, designed to adopt to the new era and respond to the emotions of customers who “love cars” and “desire a car that simply embodies the joy of driving”. This powertrain features Mazda's unique two-rotor rotary EV system, which remains compact and thus offers a high degree of layout flexibility, enabling the concept model to have a low center of gravity to enhance driving performance. Batteries are charged by recyclable energy source and the two-rotor rotary engine, used for power generation, is powered by carbon-neutral fuel. The vibrant red color of Viola Red, is a concept color created by overlaying Mazda's corporate philosophy of "enrich life-in-motion for those we serve" based on Mazda's desire to “cherish the color red.”
Masahiro Moro, Mazda's Representative Director, President and CEO made the following comment: “Mazda will always deliver vehicles that remind people that cars are pure joy and an indispensable part of their lives. As a car-loving company that mass-produces the inspiring mobility experience, we are committed to shaping the future with our partners sharing the same goal, as well as our fans, where everyone can proudly say, 'we love cars.' With such a strong will, Mazda is committed to enrich life-in-motion for those we serve.”

Mazda will continue to pursue the 'Joy of Driving' under its core value, “Human Centric”, and aim to deliver 'Joy of Living' by creating moving experiences in customers' daily lives.



Summary of the MAZDA ICONIC SP

• In creating the "framework" that forms the basis of the modeling, we aimed to achieve proportions with a low center of gravity that would give the impression of excellent driving performance. The concept of mounting the lightweight and compact rotary engine in the center of the car has resulted in a low hood.
• The two-rotor rotary EV system, which utilizes a highly scalable rotary engine that can burn various fuels such as hydrogen, generates electricity with carbon-neutral fuel. In addition, when the battery is charged with electricity derived from renewable energy, it is possible to drive in a virtually carbon-neutral state.
• The high output generated by the two-rotor rotary EV system, the proportions of the lower center of gravity, and the weight distribution of around 50:50 achieve excellent driving performance. In addition, although it is a sports car, it can supply power when enjoying outdoor leisure and in the time of a disaster.
• The exterior body color "VIOLA RED" was created based on Mazda's desire to "cherish the color red" and in conjunction with Mazda's corporate philosophy of " enriching life-in-motion for those we serve.” We focused on making a vivid color, while creating a sense of shade that accentuates the shape of the car."

RX Vision was far better, and that never materialized. I'm certain the same will be true for this.
Mazda is in a bit of an identity crisis from everything I've seen in recent time. I'm not holding my breath for sure.

It looks awesome, it generated a ton of interest, but I just don't get excited any more until there is something concrete. There have been SO many teases of future rotaries that haven't panned out.

Dale

Assuming it goes to production, what is the guess on price point?

Which new cars are considered comps?

Honda CTR
Nissan Z
GR Supra

The RX-Vision, while awesome looking, wasn't really a realistically proportioned car. This one looks far more realistic. You can't count on Mazda, but I don't think its so far fetched that they'd produce it. This configuration solves a lot of the inherent problems the rotary has with emissions, torque, and fuel efficiency. I'd like to see it come in a little lighter, but EV technology will evolve over time.

The RX-Vision/Vision GT3 looks to have been developed on Toyotas dime as the Toyota GR GT3 and is currently undergoing testing at various race tracks.

This will be Toyotas new LMGT3 race car and is supposed to have a production version by a couple of years of racing or it gets dropped.

Toyota could not compete with its Lexus RC based cars and desired a clean sheet performance car which Mazda had been working on.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...edfd9540f.jpeg

Would seem natural that Mazda would get a crack at its production version as well if $$$s align. Would it get a rotary or new Mazda turbo inline 6 like the Toyota version?

I'd be happy with the die-cast.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...8e3d3e8bb5.jpg
Its the hatch shape that is "iconic".

its worth noting, maybe that Mazda just introduced a new RWD platform, although its an SUV.
and a new inline 6 turbo

so they have some new pieces to make cars with. that being said this Iconic SP looks like a clay model or something

I think it looks pretty good. Who know what it will actually look like when/if it goes into production though. I'm also not in love with the hybrid thing.........

The reality is also that most automakers are realizing that full EV isn't doing well and is very expensive to produce. The hybrid setup works a lot better at selling vehicles and provides some of the same benefits without the high initial expense. Look at what Ford is doing with the F150 model range and the PowerBOOST engines.

I can foresee Mazda jumping into a rotary powered car again with EV for torque and then letting the rotary spin up to 8000-9000 rpm for a sports car. It would negate the need for a turbocharger and all of added complexities and heat those add to the rotary setup. The reality is that the rotary engine isn't a flawed design, it simply requires more care and upkeep than the average consumer knows about.

Mazda's soul is the rotary engine and they desperately want to get it back after they've watched Nissan Z and Toyota Supra come roaring back.

Successful marketing, they calmed down the negative publicity from the motor price increase.

I've always thought the back seat area would be a great place for batteries, and if they could use the motor in the wheel type....just put the front wheels electric and the rear from the engine....

pipe dream I know.

Even cooler would be if an independent company built a universal drivetrain and sell it to hot rodders. maybe custom axle lenghts etc so you could pick the layout and then the type of car/body to fit what you want.

i used to have this above my desk, its still true, even though we got rid of the office!

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...ca81b1aae4.jpg

In my dream, Mazda went forward with the RX-Vision concept, but put the new I6 Turbo instead under the hood.... I would liquidate assets to purchase that.

Vince

That car makes me glad I bought an ND Miata while I still could.

Just make us a road legal Furai and call it a day :nod:

.

.
fool me once, shame on you

fool me more times than I can remember … 🤔
.

i think they should just do a run of 787B's, like 77 of them.

I've got this shirt.....

I always wondered why no company has just made the TB. intake systems, front cover etc and built one themselves...maybe they have.

there's enough pictures out there and it does not look all that complicatred.

probably famous last words of someone who tried lol

Hotwheels is ahead of the curve.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...9ef360c3ef.jpg

the way things are going you’ll need to budget for what the full scale one cost back in the day, but maybe they can put a speaker at the back with a recording in the ecu that makes 787 race sounds … :suspect:
.

That is a good looking car! Love the doors. Interior is unique. Wow, way to go Mazda.

they certainly took their styling from our FDs. gorgeous but disgusting power plant. also a bit piggy at 3200.

pass

For a sportscar, I'm not sure the range extender is really that relevant.

If it was a hybrid, OK, that's NA rotary + electric "boost". Great.

if not, I'd rather just go pure electric and save all the weight of the ICE infrastructure.

Mazda already has this on the new CX SUVs, longitudinal i6T with 8-speed multiclutch AT with integrated electric motor (no torque converter), they could offer it for a performance car and also they can design a manual with similar layout.
They had a similar system design in the 16X prototypes back when the RX-8 came out.
In the current 48V system the electric motor contributes 17 hp (12.4 kW / 17 PS) of power and 153 Nm (113 lb-ft) of torque, with a much smaller and lighter Li battery. This would work wonders for torque fill wherever the Rotary could use it.
Replace the i6 with a new Rotary and voila!

RX-VISION for top dog Rotary (400Z, Mustang GT, Supra, Corvette)
ICONIC SP for affordable option (FRS GT86 BRZ)

Back to reality, NONE of these will ever happen.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...a34903209b.png

I've spent some time learning about EVs lately, and the main problem as far as I can tell is battery technology. If you happen to find datalogs showing a Tesla doing a 1/4 mile pass, you'll usually find that the battery pack voltage is dropping by at least a few percent when the driver is at full throttle and then it recovers by that few percent again when there is less demand on the battery. You can see the same phenomenon on a regular 12V car battery, the voltage drops by quite a lot when the starter engages. For both the regular 12V battery and the EV's battery pack, voltage dropping means the motor could be making more power if the battery was magically better at delivering energy without internal losses, or if something else like a generator was supplementing the battery to power the motor. I suspect there is some combination of generator output and battery size that would make for a better sportscar than a battery-only EV, even if it's just getting similar performance with less weight and the ability to refill the gas tank in places where charging stations aren't available.

I think a generator could be a good application for a rotary, since the engine can operate in a narrow powerband without needing to have good throttle response or low-RPM manners. My main concern is how reliable they can make the rotary engine in a use case that may involve starting and immediately making a lot of power without much time to warm up, my best guess is they may use battery power to preheat the engine oil or coolant.

Just give us the new rotary motors and we will figure it out.

Start collecting FD shells in the meantime.

the cooling systems in an EV are pretty different. its worth reading about if you haven't.
basically the whole system runs at a much lower temp, and then there is a lot of effort to keep the battery at the right temp

Tesla uses something called an Octovalve, its where the heat pumps and ac systems meet

Great points. I don't think they'll have a lot of trouble making a rotary reliable if it isn't turbocharged. I know the RX8 would seem to contradict that, but I think that was down to some of the compromises they made that wouldn't necessarily be made here.

if i'm not mistaken, i think Logan (Defined Autoworks) already has built a few of those slide throttle systems. as far as the rest of the engine goes, i think i heard him say the R26B was unique in the sense that it did not use standard parts like housings (side or rotor) because they had to move dowel locations for the far trailing plugs and something else. so in terms of engines, i think his (Logan's) is probably as close as we have gotten to the R26B.

as for the rest of the car, i think probably too much time has passed for someone to put an effort into building a 787B replica. i remember in the 90s, a company called Dauer (sp?) built some Porsche 962s for the street. good times ....

Biggest hurdle is the carbon tub, there's a bigger market for people wanting to spend a million on a street legal Porsche 962.
Defined Autoworks acquired lots of bits for an RX-792P GTP car, just not the carbon chassis so they're modifying a tube frame (I think a Daytona Prototype).