Leaky injector?
 

does this sound like leaky injector?

- start the car up in the morning or after sitting for a couple hours -> white cloud of smoke...the engine runs on only 2 or 3 plugs or 1 rotor cuz the car shakes like a cam'd V8 and shoots out black liquid and the white clouds come out in bursts....then if given throttle...especially short taps the car will make a very low seperated idle like a motorcyyle....when the idle recovers it shakes between 1-1.25k rpms

- after driving it under throttle or letting it warm up to 140F (lots of backfiring until this point flames too) the car completely recovers...perfect idle smooth starting if shut off again....runs perfect the rest of the day unless sitting for more than 5 hours


- recently added 2 cycle oil premix in tank....i decided to add more than enough...now the car smokes blue terribly on startup until warm....so i know that there is way excess fuel mixture on startup


possible problems.....bad sensor somewhere, leaky injector, or problem from using bur9's or iridium race plugs in cold weather?????????? :bigeyes:

sounds like blown coolant seals on one housing to me.....

the smoke that comes out is not thick at all...smells nothing whatsoever related to coolant..smells EXTREMELY EXTREMELY RICH enough to kill someone..i have never had problem with overheating or coolant level dropping...ever...its a reman with 40k miles on it


its almost -------as if 1 rotor is flooding with fuel and not firing or firing rough until it burns off the excess fuel in the housing


o and by the way the car still starts up immediately..sometimes way too fast when its cold

excessive fuel is black smoke, excessive oiling is bluish smoke, burning coolant is white smoke

You have a coolant in the combustion chamber.

Sorry but those are all classic symptoms.

You're also in the later faze so you'll need an engine pronto :(

check your injectors man. if you're running 2 cycle in the gas ( more than enough) that might it hard to start. black smoke right? hard ot start? smells like a super rich v8 and idles hard? check the manual. White smoke = coolent seal. black smoke = rich fuel mixture.

ok i just looked at the car....its much more like grey/blue black smoke...smells like a rich carb beater car...lawnmower


i just remembered that it never used to do this as bad until i upgraded to bur9's all the way around


o and too add...if i lightly boost give it half throttle it drives fine but smokes alot of black/blue out the back and smells terrible...this is before its warm as soon as it hits 180 it runs perfect


---no one really believes this is injectors???? if i try backing out the fuel mixture on the idle when the car isnt warm yet it does nothing to the smell of the fuel ocming out i really think the injectors are dumping fuel when the car shuts off

im going to have to video tape this...i hate how everyone automatically says coolant seals....coolant would smell sweet be thick like fog???

your right you need to replace the injector rings.

Sorry I didn't read the part about the smell lol.

Basically coolant smells like steam/coolant. You got me with the one rotor deal and black colored liquid.

everyone says blown coolent seal! or dude your motor is gone because it's the worst case senerio. I'm talking bad about any one in particular or doubting rotary motor knowalage. but some people have never seen a blown coolent seal or have ever ridin in a car with a blown seal. I have and I know first hand. I think it's your injectors/ fuel mixture. when did you have your injectors cleaned last?????

i bought the car 6 months ago with a 35k reman in it...i doutb the injectors were cleaned and the car has 90k miles on it so i bet they have 90k on them!....i almost had a heart attack thinking it was coolant


- let me just say...it smells SO BAD that in parking lots people walk by and cough saying dude your car is going to catch flames


so how hard is it once the uim is off to pull the injectors and reinstall....what is needed in replacement parts usually?

The secondaries are a piece of cake but unfortanetly that's not your problem hehe.

The primaries are a PIA.

Do a search and you'll get what you need. You need to remove a few things. This would be a good time to do the hose job.

One of the symptoms I had when I had a leaky injector was the exhaust manifold would start to glow orange after fifteen minutes after a cold start with no boosting. It was easiest to see at night.

did you have the same cold idle problem as well?

i just ordered a fuel pres. gauge so i can test for drop in fuel pressure after shutoff

but i was also thinking of other possibilities

- could it possibly be related to the oxygen sensor? oxygen sensor bad giving false readings until the car is warm?

- bad map sensor?

I have an '05 Mazdaspeed Miata and did an injector swap about 2.5 months ago. A couple weeks later, my car did the same thing yours is doing now. It was mis-firing BAD! It was identical sounding as a lawnmower. White smoke was pouring out. Something no one mentioned here was that, on a cold start if you have condensation in your exhaust, it WILL smoke white. Its completley normal. It is not coolant. You would smell it if it was coolant. Instead my car was stinking up the whole garage with serious gasoline. What I did was shut the car off, and restarted it and held the RPM's at 2200 RPM and it smoothed out within 15 seconds.

It happened another week or so after that, and has never happened again. My car usually misfires for the first 10 seconds of starting up, not bad like yours and my story but a couple here and there minor ones and after holding the throttle for 10 seconds, all is well. It will never misfire if I begin to drive and it has a load.

Monsterbox (if its really a coolant problem then before long you are gonna get the low coolant light on the dashboard :-) ,,, but your defo going the right direction with the fuel pressure gauge (pump up the pressure and see how long its holding that will give you a good indication of a fuel leak).. Oxygen sensor mmmm possibly but if your running a standard ECU then it will throw a code so you could try see if your ECU has any stored first.

cannot be coolant as it has never had low coolant or overheat...only had the light 5 months ago when a hose broke

No. A puff of white smoke immeadiately after startup (smelled like fuel).

Car would backfire until warmed up when I let off the gas/decelerated. I eventually fixed the problem when I installed different injectors. If you find your self replacing the injectors you should also replace the fuel pulsation dampener.

As far as the O2 sensor it shouldn't give a signal to the ECU until the car is warmed up. The stock ECU has a set cycle it runs through until the coolant temp sensor tells the ECU its getting signal. There's obviously other sensors involved in telling the ECU its at operating temp.

You might want to make sure you're getting spark to all plugs. If you haven't replaced your wires in a few years do it. Wires could be loose or corodded. Also to help with the backfiring I decided to go back to 7 and 9, the problem lessened. I was running all nines before. Also check the TPS, you'd be surprised how much that affects the cars ability to run properly.

Test fuel pressure for drop after shutoff. It should hold for at least 15 min. within a couple of lbs anyway.

Check the o2 sensor cross counts. Also, if it's not throwing any codes and no SES light, all that's probably OK.

is it possible that i have could a cracked apex seal....becuz today when i started it up...it sounded exactly like i described earlier -- like a v8 engnine car shaking violently...then i reved it up to 3k before it was warm the exhaust sounded EXTREMELY weird like a weed-eater or severe misfiring

and sure enough as soon as i start driving it runs fine...and when it hits 140F on the dime it runs PERFECT...idle is normal...got home shut it off for hour came back 110degrees now still runs perfect?

should i get a compression test? is it possible the the engine has a cracked seal that seals up when the housings are warm? I did race a mustang gt about 3 weeks ago with the car in the same weird condition and i won so obviously there has been no loss in power

as of now i'm waiting on the FP gauge...and i'm going to order new plug wires

manifold glow
 

Just started my car for the first time in about 6 months battery was dead and had a hard time starting it. After fully charging the battery it started and a couple of minutes later it started smokeing alittle and looked like the manifold on the passenger side was glowing. Is this bye bye engine?

Battery is a battery problem. Always disconnect the neg terminal if you're going to let it sit for months at a time.

The glowing is probably an injector stuck open, and now the engine is running super-rich at idle. Letting the engine go completely unused with no fuel preservative is not good for the injectors. You could try driving the car a bit to get the injectors moving freely again, or use some injector cleaner in the tank.

Dave

ok installed FP Gauge....pressure drops off to zero within 2 hours....does this mean leaky injectors?

i have also noted a few more quirks -

- car backfires huge gun shots until when i let off the gas until 180F
- first time I boost after warm up smokes black out the back....clears up completely after first time


Ive alway thought this was normal about the RX7 but i may be wrong
- throttle has an ON/ OFF feel....If i let off the gas at low rpm in 2nd or 1st and then reapply even if its EXTREMELY smooth the car jerks like i let out the clutch....if i ride the throttle between the On/OFF i hear weird exhaust tone like a mixed backfire/missfire sound normal occurs if i keep the vac at idle vac when in gear

Yeah that sound slike injectors.

Dave

The symptoms indicate blown coolant seal and? leaky injectors.Let the car rest for a night.In the morning remove and check each spark plug.If you find a spark plug wet with coolant,you have a blown coolant seal.

i'd just like to add imcombatting a similar issue. just got my new motor in and its running rich ( u can smell it extremely) but the smoke is thick thick white. no cooleant leaks as it ran for +30 minutes with no loss in coolant, never overheated, good oil pressure. Im thinking possible leading coil problem but it starts up pretty easily, a little rough but never failed to start up. i have checked me injectors and they arent leaking i just pulled the whole thing..primary and secondary rail up enough to see injectors and jumped fuel pump the get fuel pressure and also made each injector ope to make sure they werent sticking open. all injectors checked out fine. it idles at 800 rpm but a little rough. revs up smooth. in neutral at idle its not as bad with the smoke but god in neutral with a good rev to 300 rpm my neighborhood is a smokescreen. when i drive it on the road the smoke clears within 30 seconds of partial throttle driving and it appears that with load, and someonewhat open throttle, the smoke goes away....next step..recheck ignition lol

could this be because of a cat that had been foiled from excess richness and now is hot and burning the fuel off without igniting it? perhaps the excess unburnt fuel is simply dripping into the cat and building up and once it gets hot its burning off..who knows.. help? i also have a thread is started on this

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/engine-smoke-new-motor-634490/

i am running br10eix....could it possibly be that the plugs are too cold when the car starts up?

No, I am running those same plugs, in the leading anyway (trailing are stock 9s). Your symptoms have nothing to do with spark plugs.

What does it mean if the injectors tick constantly on idle? Tick,tick,tick,tick, tick constant rythmn with a little engine shaking?

ticking is good..means they are opening and closing correctly. if it was a thud they would be sticking a little. ticking means the nozzle is clean most likely, since u can hear the seats hitting each time...so ticking is good...as far as iv ever known with my scope

Im almost starting to think this is my whole problem. I have the kg ultimate fuel system and a supra pump in my car. From the begining The pressure would bleed off. I would sometimes get smokey startups, and i also have sometimes had to hold it to 2k for 10 seconds let off and have it stay at 900rpms. Sometimes i'll start the car up and it will hunt at 4-- 500 rpms. I also can be driving for 20 mins with no problem then after that period the car will buck above 3k but get worse in the lower rpms. It def feels like it runs on one rotor at points and at idle you can hear the one rotor just doing the work. Also last night after i pulled the car into my shop i let it idle for 10 minutes at 900 and was confused how it was running so good. I then decided to turn it off and restart it. As I started it back up it idled at 4-- 500 rpms! Could this be part of the ignition or the ignition timing? I'm just posting this cause some of my symptoms are the same. Should i just send out all of my injectors to get cleaned? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I also forgot to mention that I sometimes get smoke out when I run it from a dig... Input?

same problem i had and the injector gromets and air bleds were broken and or leaking.
will flame for 10 seconds after you get on it good! (burn the Paint)
also sounded like a streetport.. but stock motor
my car had 73,000 at the time.

carbin waiting to be cleared by your foot:bubrub: .

i had the exact symtpoms when my front trailing plug cracked at the ceramic and it was arching like a mofo. look down there while its running and check it out. you'll see a big spark along with a loud tick tick noise. even worse could be a single leading plug. either way test spark at all 4 plugs and get new plugs to be safe or atleast check em to make sure they arent fucked up.

btw i posted a while back and all my smoke was from horribly leaking turbos. that problem is solved. i got it to run great and from swapping out different plugs and trying different heat ranges and iridiums i mustv cracked the front trailing. i got a Big hefty zap when i went to check the plug boots while it was running and grounded myself on the strut tower bar and got the shit zapped out of me holy crap. but it ran like how you describe. very hesitant, felt like 1 rotor going, shaky as fuck. put in a new plug and runs like gold now :)

Sounds like you need tuning more than anything else.

^ well the strange thing is... When i first was breaking in the new motor everything was fine.
I have looked into the plugs. Im running the stock 7's and 9's and for some reason the trailings are nicely browned. Yet the leadings are black with a slight rippled texture! I have an amp for the leadings right now so its strange to see them look fouled.
Im wondering what i should try to do. I'm going to most likely tear the car apart and send all the injectors out to get serviced. I have to tear the turbo and mani off as I'm having a problem with the turbo rattling the bolts that have lock washers, and are lock-tited. So I'll just have to double nut this bitch now.
The reason I think its not really the map is the trailing plugs are not fouled out. The only thing I can think of that may be a problem is the amp isn't getting a good ground so I'll check the resistance on that and maybe add a better grounding source.
Any other ideas???

try tps. before i found it was my cracked plug all the symptoms in the fsm lead me to believe it was the TPS. and if i unplug the tps now all those symptoms do occur. u wont get a CEL now since u have the PFC but it did trigger a CEL for me and all the same shit happened. check your tps voltage signals with the commander or datalogit i guess and check that it's getting a reading and that it's in spec.

well i just pulled the mofos and sent them to be cleaned we will know the answer soon

Can't be the tps for me. I have set it within spec 5 times and even put my spare in there, same situation still. I wish there were a better quality set of top feed 850's out there identical to the seimens that you get from kg. For some reason I think its the 850s but theres no way to tell unless I send them out or get different injectors. I love all the problems that happen one after another...

yea, problems come in waves, it's awesome isn't it.

What generally cuases excessive Oiling?

Ty

.... send them to me for testing. http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=fuelinjectclean You bought them from us, I will take care of you. Just shoot me a PM or call to discuss before you send them in.
thanks
-KG

^Thanks Keith, I was going to send them to you at the end of the week with a couple more to get cleaned... I'll call the shop tomorrow.

Ty, what do you mean excessive oiling?

excessive oilling? well the oil injectors...pretty sure they increase oil with vacuum. atleast thas what makes sense to me the way they are hooked up. but the FSM i think reads that a faulty vac line to the oil injectors can cause excessive oilling. the vac lines are at the turbo inlet, so seems that higher boost = more turbo intake vac would = more oil but dunno.

I've seen an OMP fail and lock in the full output position, no matter the vacuum/boost level. The car smoked like a mother at idle and low rpm. :)

Like for example, once my car get to operating tempature, I drive and a few blocks down the road it starts smoking like a diesel. Then you tap the gas, and it does away! It does it rarely, but does it almost everyday(does that make sense?). I mean, it does it at least once a day, but that is all, just on first time start up then getting to operating temp, generally. Also, there is a glitch with my oil pressure gauge and low level light, they seem to be hay-wire but oil level is at full. I am paranoid, I check my oil everyday!

Ty

could be a tiny oil leak in the exhaust side of the turbos. if you let it sit while it's warming up, the oil pressure will cause the oil to seep out of the turbos into the downpipe and some will burn off and some will collect at the bottom. as soon as you go to drive it all the extra exhaust and heat will burn and blow the oil/smoke out until it clears out. after that, while your driving it's continuously blowing the exhaust out so much faster that it doesnt really get a chance to build up and smoke like when you let it sit and idle. i had this same problem but a little worse than you describe. i still saw traces of smoke when i drove it.

while you're driving it, see what happens when you cruise at really low throttle i.e. cruise while your vac gauge shows like less than 5 inhg and see if you notice any smoke, then see if it goes away when you get at or over 0 psi

rynberg, would a MOP like that throw a code ?

and the outcome was??