Interest in a Alternator Relocation Bracket?
 

Ok, folks I need to see how many FD guys are interested in something like this.
Blake Qualley and Pineapple Racing have designed an Alternator relocation bracket for the FB/FC that allows you mount the alternator where the A/C and PS pump were previously located.

The benefits include lowering the weight and being able to run a electric water pump and water pump housing adapter.

They are willing to make or modify the current one to fit FD's if us FD guys can show enough interest and potential buyers (15+) of this product.

Here are a few pictures of the product that Blake posted in another thread.
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket1a.jpg
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket2a.jpg
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket3a.jpg
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket4a.jpg
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket5a.jpg
http://pineappleracing.com/images/misc/altbracket7a.jpg

More images and information can be found in the following
thread.
Please don't post in that thread, instead express your interest in this thread.

Will they provide a useful waterpump pulley as well?

I am very interested in this.

If so I want a nicer looking bracket...All fine and dandy for the fb/fc folk but for us fd guys we need some nicer stuff to make it worth while IMO! As for the electric water and housing we would need that too. Might as well do all the work at the same time!

im interested, what is the expected cost? not sure what kind of bling nashman likes but it looks nicely made to me.

Yes it looks OEM.
Nashman probably wants chrome which would look nice.

price estimate? i am very interested.

I don't think so, but you could ask. I've got an electric water pump and no housing or water pump pulley.

I think it looks perfectly fine and I'm one of the most anal people I know. Personally I think it looks great, but you could get it powdercoated or chromed or whatever floats your boat.

As for the water pump housing you can already purchase one of those from Summit or KG Parts.

As far as price goes, I don't know, but I would imagine that it would be similar if not almost identical to the other brackets they will be making. I'll see if I can get Blake to chime in on some of these questions for us.

It looks like we have the ball rolling folks, hopefully we can get a few more people interested and can convince Rob and Blake to make some up for the FD crowd. :)

I have some interest granted the price is decent

I'm interested, even though I'll have to hack the crap out of it to fit the new 200A alternator!

IN for 200A relocated bracket.

Wait...can I still keep Power Steering and A/C with this?

doesn't look like it

im in...




this would be a nice option

I'm interested, but wouldn't an electric water bump be less reliable?

How much is an electric water pump? This is important since depending on the additional cost.

No

An electric water pump isn't necessarily less reliable than the stock pump. Besides the additional horsepower gain from less parasitic drag you can also set up a electric pump to continue cycle coolant after you shut the vehicle off. Doing so decreases heat soak.
Cost wise depending on the pump and options you want you are looking $150-$300

As for cost of the bracket, I've been told that it will be in the $50-$85 range depending on options and quantity.

Looks good, but I'd need to see it installed first to look at clearance issues. I have my ignition amp installed on the rail there and don't want to run into any issues with that.

Otherwise, looks good.

Interested. I have everything else...just been waiting for someone to make this bracket before I had to.

I've received a few PM's regarding my electronic water pump setup. For those of you who are interested in a similar setup here's what I have.

For the water pump I have a Davies Craig EWP and Controller
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/images/ewp1.jpg
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/elecpump.htm
I can get them cheaper if anyone is interested.

For the water pump adapter I have a Meziere water pump block adapter.
http://img16.exs.cx/img16/5189/adapter7td.jpg
It comes in two styles one with two or three ports.
http://img107.exs.cx/img107/686/im0007297co.jpg
http://img107.exs.cx/img107/2072/im0007305jd.jpg
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=KeywordSearch

Or you could use the KG Parts one if you like.
http://kgparts.com/images/Turbo/kgwpf.jpg
http://kgparts.com/diy.htm
Or you could make your own if you wish.

I also have an Unorthodox Racing Ultra R main pulley, but you could use the stock one and just take off the front section.

Carlos (Spic Racer) runs a similar setup with great success on his GT40 FD.
http://img143.exs.cx/img143/5552/setup7hq.jpg
https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-292/spic-racer-gt40r-414533/

All I need is the alternator mount to finish my installation.

Glass Man: Looks good, and definitely provides for an interesting option.

But I'm curious as to how much support you'll get from the FD community for this. Relocating the alternator means that you MUST run an electric water pump (unlike FB/FC). I understand that there are some people running e-pumps (as you pointed out), and others that are interesting in going that route. But I'm wondering if there's gonna be enough support for an Alt relocation bracket to make it worth Pineapple's time to build.

Good luck with this though, I'm interested to see how it turns out!

-Rob

Glassman, you can count on me to buy one. I wish it was lower more like where they ac goes instead of ps...but I dont really care. Either will be fine, I just have a preferance for a/c locations.

Try to get them to throw in a good quality belt (Goodyear or something) thats the correct size (obviously they can add it to the price).

What's the benefit of relocating this?

Well there are several benefits of doing the conversion.
First you bringing the weight farther down into the chassis. This might not make much of a difference for most folks as they might not be able to fully appreciate the benefits it provides.

For the weight weenies (myself included) you are losing some weight from the engine as the water pump housing weighs much more than a normal electric water pump.

Also you are freeing up some extra horsepower by reducing parasitic drag.

With my setup you can set the pump to continue to run after you shut the vehicle off to reduce thermal stress and heat soak.

that is what im in it for

I, too, prefer this location since the primary reason why I am relocating the alternator is to decrease the center of gravity.

Cut your head off and put it in your lap... :D

Seriously, how much effect do you think moving the alternator has on the overall center of gravity of the car? I'm sure it has some impact, but I wouldn't do it just for that reason.

I'd weigh them both before claiming a weight loss benefit. The stock water pump isn't exceptionally heavy and a reasonable sized electric motor usually is.

More importantly, what's the effect on the rate of coolant flow? An electric pump typically outflows a mechanical belt-driven pump at low rpm, but at higher rpm, you can't get any more flow out of it than it's already delivering.

And replacing it with more electrical load. You still have to power the pump and if your alternator is already borderline because you've added other electronic devices, you may not be gaining as much as you think you are, especially if you have to go with a higher output alternator.

That is one benefit. On the other hand, the electric water pump may stop functioning and the first indication you'll have of it is when your temperature gauge immediately heads north.

This is one reason why I'm not planning on using an electric water pump any longer. They're great for trailered race cars, lousy for the street. Make up the ~5-10 horsepower you'd gain some other way.

It may work to decrease the center of gravity in your case...since your ego is huge. :D
But for me it would not make such a big difference. I would still contemplate it if it were possible.

I agree with your assessment. The effect may be minimal. But similar to yourself, I tend to be anal, at least about certain things involving my car. And I am anal about lowering the center of gravity of the engine/car.

Hey guys. I was told you might be interested in an FD version of our alternator relocation brackets. I'm willing to try it if you're willing to buy it.

Someone asked about mounting it lower? Don't know what pictures you're looking at, but any lower and it would be under the car!

Reliability with the electric water pumps is, if anything, as good as mechanicals. The Davies Craig EWP has won the Le Mans 24 Hour race (GTS class, in a Ferarri 550) which speaks volumes for its reliability, not to mention a favorable trade-off between mechanical and electric load. Another thing I think is easily forgotten is that water pumping speed is NOT ideally matched to engine speed...at high RPMs you don't want that mechanical pump spinning so fast (cavitation) and once the radiator is maxed-out, faster coolant flow is detrimental to cooling. What you want is the *right* speed of coolant flow, which is independant of engine speed. I'm not saying EWPs are necessary nor are they the best thing for all people and applications, but in the world of car mods, it's not remotely in the realm of stupid things people do in the sake of performance. Race cars see real benefits, at any rate, so those people who like to make their street cars into race-like vehicles can't be faulted for wanting to emulate a sucessful setup. Just my $0.02.

I won't take deposits yet, but I will start some pre-production work, such as making a CAD file and getting some blanks laser-cut for test fitment. If you are happy with mild steel and powdercoating (or nothing), then the price will be similar to the other brackets ($50-85). If you want Cadmium coating or something else, it may go up. Same if you want 4130 Chromoly or Titanium or Inconel or... One thing is certain, however. They must all be the same because the quantity is so low. Perhaps unfinished is best, so you can all do your own thing? Let me know what your thoughts are and try to reach a consensus.

--
Blake Qualley
Pineapple Racing

Im interested if it can work w/ 200 amp alt..

Well, I'd have to disagree, because in some cases, there's a difference between good performance under typical street situations and good performance under race conditions with regards to certain components.

I have no qualms regarding the reliability aspect. However, the "favorable trade-off between mechanical and electrical load" is using the context of a 600-hp racing machine that is usually at full throttle most of the time (and doesn't have much of the additional electrical loads of a street car) versus a 300-350hp street car that is seldom at full throttle for long periods. There's a big difference there.
But you also want the right coolant flow for the speeds that you're usually traveling at. The same detrimental effects of coolant circulating before it can shed enough heat can be said for traveling at slower speeds as well, which is why most street cars are designed with engine-driven water pumps.
I agree, probably not, but for street cars driven on the street, I don't see a whole lot of payoff for the additional complexity and labor to install one.

I love the idea in principle of relocating the Alt but IMO it's a heck of a lot of effort AND expense (bracket, epump, block outlet, hoses, fittings, wiring, alternator(?), etc.) for not a whole lot of gain, and added potential for failure (The OEM mechanical pump is dead reliable and rarely prone to catastrophic failure, ie. it doesn't just STOPS working). Not that my opinion counts for much these days anyway.
Pure race car/track car maybe but for a street driver, nah.
Crispy

Not to pick a fight (honestly), but 24 hours of operation during a race isn't comparable to what an electric pump would go through in a street car. The Meziere and CSI electric pumps are rated for 2,000-2,500 hours of service, but people have had them fail far sooner, and they go without warning. People have tried to create LED indicators that light when the pump stops flowing, but I haven't seen a satisfactory "early warning" solution yet, and once the pump is gone, you're done. With a mechanical pump, at least you can usually limp to where you were going.

Just fair warning for anyone considering this swap. This isn't something to go into without a full set of facts for consideration. In fact, this is one reason why I sold my 396 short block. I no longer had the option of running a mechanical pump with that configuration.

My water pump only weighs 2 lbs. You can read more about specifications listed here.
http://daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=8
I haven't weighed the water pump with the water pump/thermostat housing, but can safely say it weighs significantly more than the water pump and aluminum housing adapter.

I'm with jim on this one, why would you want to spend money on this mod and have the worry of the pump going out with no warning and the chance of overheating your motor and spending more money on a rebuild, also not many people would want to take their p/s and a/c just to do this mod when the stock water pump is fine.

That's fine if you feel that way, but could you guys put it in another thread and please keep this one on topic? :soapbox: 0 :)

You know, I don't have my 200A alternator installed yet....I'd be willing to send it out to Pineapple if they'd be willing to fab a bracket for those in need!

Got a question glassman....does it bolt up to the ps/ac bracket or to the actual engine?

I would like it to bolt to the actual engine and be down around the ac location.

I dont know what they have in mind, but that is my preferance. Let me know the details when you find out. I need this for my water pump conversion. I havent had time to fab my own.

Stephen

Stephen, it attached to the actual engine where the PS, A/C bracket used to be. Fear not. :)

We've got another person interested who wants to use one with a 20B with an FD front cover. :)

Just another bump. Just to confirm most of you guys are happy with a powder coated mild steel setup correct?

Bump, hopefully we will get the details straightened out in the next few days regarding prices, fitment, options, etc... if I don't get sidetracked and buy an SRT-4 instead. :\

any updates?

I'm still waiting to hear back from Blake regarding the prototype. When I hear something back, I'll let you know.

definitely in
 

I'm definitely interested in the bracket, I hope that Blake gets back to you soon with a prototype.

Still no news. :(

add one more.

any updates?

change order for 2 brackets please
 

I'm good for at least two brackets, if production ever starts!

Sorry I was out of town on a business trip, let me see if Blake has any updates.

bump

anything new?

Nothing new yet, I sent a PM. If I don't hear anything in the next few days I'll let you guys know.