pluto

I was wondering what most of you guys see in a road course? I was running my mostly stock CYM w/ exhaust, dp, mp, fluidyne radiator and PFC at the track. After 8 laps, I glanced at the PFC monitor and saw 119C water temp and 99C air temp. I never expected 99C air temp since the most I would expect is 80C. outside temperature was 70F so it wasn't hot at all. I ended up blowing the IC pipe in half (bottom piece to IC) and kill my alternator. I never thought stock setup would run that hot at a track. Since this is the only time that I actually monitor my air temperature, what are most of you guys run at the track??

1st to 3rd

How much boost were you running? 80°C with a stock IC at 10lbs of boost is about right. Also, 119°C water temp is in the danger zone, but I guess you already know that.

Edit: Fixed typo.

rynberg

In my car with the exact mods listed in my sig, I had the following temps after a few laps:

95F ambient, well over 100F track temps
running 13 psi, 25/75 coolant/water, fresh t-stat

water: 105C on PFC, 230F on water temp gauge
air: 65C
oil: 260F

RTS3GEN

Don't know intake temps, but with an FMIC my hottest water temp has been 265F. (that was with NPG Evans coolant). Now typical temp for 30 minute session in 95F ambient is 110C to 115C. I get worried, Steve, when it passes 118 to 120C. I think if it's cooled off gradually at these temps. there should be little problem, it's when the motor get's shut down due to panic and cold water is sprayed on the engine that causes most damage. Would you agree? Have you gotten that Blue FD with the flares and the white interior track worthy yet? Intereseted to see the thing in action.
Art

pluto

I was running 10psi at the track since hp has very little to do with being fast in road course so I usually keep it down. My motor is fine and still pulls 20in HG. I probably cruise for at least 3 laps to let the temp come back before I got back on it again, I was still faster than half the people that were there while crusing though, I guess I wasn't really concern, but rather suprised that air temp is so high.

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

You didn't mention an IC so that might be the reason?

911GT2

That air temp is crazy high! I get worried if/when I see 60C, so that freaks me out.

Thanks for the tuning BTW

pluto

Nah..my engine bay is stock so I'm running the stock IC. the last lap before I pull off, I notice the car feeling slow so I slowed down and looked at the PFC commander. that's when I realize that the car was running pretty hot. i also notice my boost was very low (3-4psi), after letting it cool down and pull off the track, that's when i realize that my ic hose blew apart and alternator going bad.

I guess I couldn't believe that the stock IC is so insufficient for track use.

HeatTreated

Stock IC is insufficient for everything. (but you already know that)
Man I watch all my gauges like a hawk. And at the last track event, never even saw 200F on the stock radiator with water wetter and fan mod on hi the whole time. (I think you know 'rx7gsle' (Eric) he was running with me at Hallet on Nov. 4th)
I hooked up a IC sprayer to help the crappy Stock IC.
(I turn the Profec B off and run 8psi)

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

My FD at the same track event that Steve is talking about was running 240F according to my son who was driving the car. No PFC so I don't have any intake temps to report. Motor is stock, only downpipe. I was driving a 1st gen, temps never got over 180F.

BTW, You never passed me Steve.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Oh, Snap

Pauly talkin' smack.....watch out my man, something might *ahem* happen during that rad install

On a serious note, I wasn't monitoring air temps but saw 99 as my highest water temp under hard lapping. Gotta love my front mount fluidyne

Oh, also--in 9 laps I managed to lap a certain other FD not once but *twice*.......guess who ?

ArcWelder

My rule of thumb is to back off when water temps hit 115degC (239F). Possible damage level at around 245F (118C). It depends on the condition of the water seals, i.e. age and how many times they've been exposed to high temps.

Air temps? I'll back off in the low 70C's. Med intercooler.

Most of the cooling mods I've done allow me to stay well under these temps during a 30 min. session, although ambient temps above 100F make it close.

BTW, I have Fluidyne rad(well sealed), CWC dual oil coolers, med IC, DP, drilled thermostat, Water Wetter, 20% coolant/80% water.

Mark

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

Could it be Nik in my FD? Man I gotta teach that kid to drive.

Of course it was kind of hard for Steve to pass me since I was in a different run group.

DamonB

Stock motor with downpipe, stock radiator, 80% water/ 20% coolant and inlet sides blocked I would see 230+ F coolant temps after about 3-4 hard laps at MSR and would then begin short shifting at 6000; that would keep temps stable.

With the new splitter and everything else the same I never got water temps over 215 and could drive as hard as I wanted.

splitter

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

DamonB,

Now that you brought your splitter idea up, I do notice that the car runs cooler, even way back when my engine was on its last legs. What about making it to fit under the 99 lip? I would buy something like that.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Very nice pic......who was your camerman? He must be very talented

DamonB

Yeah, he's just naturally very close to his work in that pic

DamonB

I can't even begin to say for certain it would work. The splitter completely replaces the whole lip, so I can't say what would happen if you added it in conjunction with a factory R1 or '99 spec lip.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Amazing some of these #'s I'm reading. You guys are NUTS and asking for serious trouble. Keep in mind that the PFC starts yanking timing big time at 110degC (which begs the question all you guys running Evans have you upped the retard temp in the PFC to account for higher operating temps? my bet is NOT) water and IIRC 80degC AIT so pushing the car past these #'s is pointless as you will probably be down at least 50rwhp anyways not to mention risking significant engine damage. You may not see engine woes from overheating until 6-12months from now when your car "mysteriously" starts consuming coolant or constantly puking it out the overflow tank. Once overheated and the rotor housings warp there is no resealing those and they WILL leak at the seals eventually.

My rule of thumb lift when you see 110degC water. PERIOD!

260deg oil temps? YEEOWWW. Say good bye to your eshaft bearings if you continue to run like that let alone turbo bearings. At these temps might as well be using water as a lubricant.

99degC AIT it's no wonder you fried your IC. You might be quick in a striaght line but driving a road course is a whole nother ball game. For example I have more money invested in my **BRAKES** than I do power mods. A road course will merely highlight the MANY shortcomings of a car...cooling, brakes, tranny, you name it.

As for my temps...after years of work and lots of mods I see AIT's in the 60degsC in ambient temps of about 80-90degF, Water temps solid at about 100 to 105degC, and oil temps no higher than 215-220degF. I can run the car hard at 12psi for 30 minutes straight with NO cooling issues at all. And my car uses a stock unported motor and the original sequential turbos. No nitrous

My cooling mods: Mazdacomp radiator fully ducted and sealed, (this includes ducting on the sides and to the nose, a pefectly fitted undertray, foam in holes around piping pass throughs, etc etc. Hold a bright light behind/under the undertray, in the engine bay near gaps, and look through the nose of the car. See light? Got a hole...plug it), drilled T-stat, 80/20 coolant mix, bottle of water wetter, vented hood, sharkmouth nose mod, CWR twin MOCAL oil coolers (even the dual R1 coolers were inadequate - and as oil cooling in a rotary does about 40% of your cooling duty bigger oil coolers is just as important as a bigger radiator), synthetic engine oil (no debates please...it lowered my engine temps a few degrees where every degree counts), relocated battery (allows more engine bay flowthrough and removes a huge heat sink), and PFC fans set to come on at a lower temp, and a CWR large IC to get the AITs down.

And then as a bandaid solution for a poorly prepped car one may also simply run lower boost and or turn on heater full blast when on the track.

Good luck and start saving your pennies for a new motor.
FWIW,
Crispy
- was I ranting?

rynberg

I agree with your points, Crispy. That 260F oil temp occured at my first time at the track in 95F ambient temps. It was a learning experience, and I fully plan to upgrade to at least the R1 coolers before I do anymore road racing in hot weather.

On the plus side, my water temps (PFC block readings) did not exceed 105C (the t-stat housing sensor measured 230F however) and my intake temps were in the mid 60s C.

I'm still going to do my best to avoid any more 95F+ track days. Of course, I've got 75k on the engine and turbos now, so they only have so much life left anyway...

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

There's no question getting these cars truely "trackable" takes significant work and $$'s. I often wonder if ignorance is bliss because I was wholely unaware of my oil temp problem until I installed a temp gauge...and then it was "HOLY COW!" Oil coolers went in 4 months later.
Crispy

CCarlisi

My friend runs a M2 med with water injection. He told me his temps stay below 40c day in day out on the track with the water injection switched on.

Water temps are the limiting factor for him. He switched to Evans 2 motors ago and is happy with the results.
A couple weeks back he removed the 110c timing correction with my datalogit. He says the car feels great now at 110-115. I believe he backs off at 125c.

Kd recently tore down one of his motors and found no temperature related damage to the o-rings or housings.

115+ sounds a little nutty but I can't argue with his results to date.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

I'd still be leary of running temps that high, Evans or not. Short term effects are not the real issue it's the long term degradation that can sneak up on you. If he's now on his 3rd motor using the Evans it's possible the long term effects of running at temps this high simply haven't had time to manifest themselves.
Just a thought,
Crispy

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Is water injection illegal for track use?

SPOautos

Steve do you think part of the high ait could have been from the crack in your IC pipes? If it happened gradually over the course of a couple laps then your turbos were probably working overtime to overcome the leak and heating up the air like crazy

In other world maybe it wasnt the heat that caused the split but rather the split that caused the heat?

Just another theory you can toss around

Later,
STEPHEN