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HKS Twin Pak Ignition
HKS twin pak ignition, worth the money? Have high RPM break up. Anyone hear anything bad about HKS twin pak ignition?
-lightly ported engine -intake -downpipe -muffler -stock cat -power fc 14psi -lighter flywheel -1300cc secondary injectors -310rwph |
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hey mahjik,you wouldnt happen to have a link to the dyno sheets with the hks twin power on there now would you? I searched but found nothing.
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Originally posted by speeddemon7 hey mahjik,you wouldnt happen to have a link to the dyno sheets with the hks twin power on there now would you? I searched but found nothing. Here's a page of FD dynos: http://www.catenet.net/dyno.php |
twin power, not twin pak
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Also you may want to look at the B&M New Volt basically the same thing but quite a bit cheaper if I remember correctly. I have it on my car and it's very nice.
-Nic |
While I didn't notice a huge difference, it really made a difference from about 5800 RPM and up. Before, my car would kinda' fall on its face but now it pulls all the way. FYI, I'm running about 14 PSI too. I still consider it worth the money.
Frank |
Oh yeah, install took all of 5 minutes. That is the fastest any of my mods hooked up.
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Stay tuned. I plan on installing the HKS Twin Power Ignition @ the Rx7 Store. I will have a base dyno pull before, and fine-tuned dyno plot after the HKS Twin Power is installed.
If I forget to post the dyno, someone PM me, and remind me. |
I've found that with upgraded leading coils and the HKS twinpower, I don't have ignition break up at high rpms anymore.
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Yes, these are the symptoms my car has @14.5 psi. Jason (Rx7 Store) recommended I get a Twin Power. He thinks 10 hp is available with better ignition. We'll see :)
Originally posted by Flyrx7 While I didn't notice a huge difference, it really made a difference from about 5800 RPM and up. Before, my car would kinda' fall on its face but now it pulls all the way. FYI, I'm running about 14 PSI too. I still consider it worth the money. Frank |
Post the dyno when you get it...that would be nice to see.
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I've read the stock FD ignition coils are pretty good?
Originally posted by jspecracer7 I've found that with upgraded leading coils and the HKS twinpower, I don't have ignition break up at high rpms anymore. |
Originally posted by SleepR1 I've read the stock FD ignition coils are pretty good? While some may give you a hotter spark they just don't seem to have the longevity of the stockers. |
Originally posted by Flyrx7 True, there should be no need for any other type of coil. While some may give you a hotter spark they just don't seem to have the longevity of the stockers. |
Probably using the Jacobs Pro Pak or other type ignition amp that are known to fry coils. Do you know what type amps they were using?
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i just installed my twin power last weekend it made a huge difference in the way my car feels. probably didn't add much power, but it is smoother and comes in a lot quicker. midrange is definately where you feel it, and it seems like it just keeps pulling harder up top
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Originally posted by Flyrx7 Probably using the Jacobs Pro Pak or other type ignition amp that are known to fry coils. Do you know what type amps they were using? |
I installed my friends for the trip to seven stock last year. I didn't really notice a difference in anything. I don't have ign. break up symptoms like most of you guys though. Not worth the $$$$ in my opinion.
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Originally posted by fdeeznutz I installed my friends for the trip to seven stock last year. I didn't really notice a difference in anything. I don't have ign. break up symptoms like most of you guys though. Not worth the $$$$ in my opinion. |
It's a problem @ high boost levels with rich AFRs...If you're running stock boost with few mods, then an ignition amp isn't needed...
Originally posted by fdeeznutz I installed my friends for the trip to seven stock last year. I didn't really notice a difference in anything. I don't have ign. break up symptoms like most of you guys though. Not worth the $$$$ in my opinion. |
It was worth it for me. As soona as I switched from my main cat to hi-flow cat I was noticing misfire sometimes as low as 11psi if it was really cold out. I ran 15psi with the stock cat with no problems. The HKS unit cured my misses.
SleepR1 has a good point with the high boost and high AFR as I have a Pettit Unlimited chip and it dumps everything out at top end. I was scheduled to re-dyno this past friday at KDR to see if there was a hp increase but the weather forbid it. As soon as the roads clear, I'll be going back and then I will post my numbers. |
I have before and after, with the only change being the HKS ignition added. If I could get David (glassman) to host it again, I'll scan it in and e-mail it to him.
Tim |
my car made 15 more rwhp at 16 psi and same tuning after we through the hks twin power in. Im very happy with the results, and it allowed me to go up to a higher boost.
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Originally posted by Tim Benton I have before and after, with the only change being the HKS ignition added. If I could get David (glassman) to host it again, I'll scan it in and e-mail it to him. Tim |
if you meant to quote me instead of Tim Benton then same dyno 1 day apart, same time of day, and same intake temps (withing 5 degrees).
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Originally posted by SleepR1 It's a problem @ high boost levels with rich AFRs...If you're running stock boost with few mods, then an ignition amp isn't needed... |
Really, I think the point here is that if your are running stock boost then the ignition amp isn't going to do you much good except for maybe a little smoother response, but if you are running anything over stock boost, like 14 and up, the HKS will help in the upper mid to high range.
Frank |
Originally posted by Flyrx7 Really, I think the point here is that if your are running stock boost then the ignition amp isn't going to do you much good except for maybe a little smoother response, but if you are running anything over stock boost, like 14 and up, the HKS will help in the upper mid to high range. Frank |
i can host the dyno charts. email them to transcr.03@ipacc.com.
Has anybody installed a Twin Power on an FC? |
I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead).
I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both :) If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case. PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP). See ya, -Matt '88 Turbo II '93 CYM |
I dont see why everyone wants a HKS twin power. Is it just cause its HKS? I run a MSD ignition amp on my leading and it works awsome. As a matter of fact when I very first went to tune my car I had a/f ratio's down into the 8's with no breakup. Steve Kan has made upward of 600rwhp with a single MSD amp on the leading coils (he was running T2 leading coils) and thats it. You can buy a MSD for $120 brand new.
The only think about the HKS is a amps the trailing, however thats a waist unless your running TONS of boost......As in way over 20psi. I'd buy a MSD 6a for the leading and use the other $350 for something else like a bad ass fuel pump or something like that. STEPHEN |
Where can you get the MSD? I checked on Gotham and rx7store's web sites, but neither list any MSD stuff.
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How difficult is it to install the MSD? I know that with the optional harness for the HKS it installs in about 2 minutes.
Frank |
Does anyone have a pic of where they mounted the HKS?
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Originally posted by AgentSpeed Does anyone have a pic of where they mounted the HKS? Frank |
More MSD info needed here!
POM HB |
If anyone is interested in a cheaper prewired ignition amp I am selling one at:
https://www.rx7club.com//showthread....hreadid=262396 Thanks, sorry to interrupt :D |
Both the HKS and MSD connect into the harness right before the coils. The differnce is the HKS has a connector that just snaps in and makes the install take about 5 minutes. The MSD doesnt have the connector so you have to splice it in.....or actually krip on some connectors to the factory harness and the MSD harness then connect them together. It took me about 30 or so minutes to install the MSD. I'd gladly put up with a 30 minute install to save $350.
You can buy a MSD 6a from just about anywhere. JEGS, Summit, ebay, ect ect ect STEPHEN |
do you maybe have instructions on how to install MSD igntion? I'm looking to get one soon :)
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Originally posted by Yellow R1 I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead). I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both :) If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case. PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP). See ya, -Matt '88 Turbo II '93 CYM P.S. where are the location pic's on your cars for the HKS and MSD's? Let's go, let's go let's go!!! |
Originally posted by AgentSpeed Does anyone have a pic of where they mounted the HKS? |
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Originally posted by Yellow R1 I have an HKS but took it off after I had a serious grounding wire install. That ignition has too much a$$ when combined with a serious ground kit. That HKS was sooo strong it fried by Iridium plugs & destroyed the MSD ignition wires I had (Geezus its strong!). I had 5k miles on my plugs so when that HKS got hooked up, it fried the plugs & wires (it amplifies ANY weakness in the electrical system & smokes it dead). I'd recommend getting one or the other (Ignition amp or the Ground Kit, but not both :) If anyone wants mine, its brand new, 22 miles on it. I bought it for $465 & am selling for $350. It was just an overkill in my case. PS - I've get every bolt on for my CYM & am running 15# of boost (about 380 RWHP). See ya, -Matt '88 Turbo II '93 CYM |
first I've heard of that type thing happening with hks unit. I have heard plenty of people with MSD and crane frying their coils in the past. Way past, like 5 years ago, not sure if they still do it though.
Tim |
Originally posted by Tim Benton first I've heard of that type thing happening with hks unit. I have heard plenty of people with MSD and crane frying their coils in the past. Way past, like 5 years ago, not sure if they still do it though. Tim I've heard of Jacobs and Crane frying coils....but I've never hear of the MSD frying a coil. Not saying its not possible though, especially if they had a weak coil but I'd imagine if that were the case any ignition would have fried it. I've been running my MSD 6a for a year and prob put about 10K miles on it and havent had a prob yet. Maybe they used a different MSD besides the 6a, MSD definatly makes some much more powerful models that I'm sure would fry a coil. That might be what happened. STEPHEN |
I don't doubt that adding an ignition amp places more stress on the coils. However, Matt seems to be saying that the combination of the HKS system AND an upgraded ground system is the cause of his coil failure. I suspect that his coils would have failed regardless of whether he had a ground strap system or not. Or, at the very least, weak coils will fail if used with an ignition amp and ground strap system.
A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe? This is off the HKS site: "The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)" |
Originally posted by CCarlisi I don't doubt that adding an ignition amp places more stress on the coils. However, Matt seems to be saying that the combination of the HKS system AND an upgraded ground system is the cause of his coil failure. I suspect that his coils would have failed regardless of whether he had a ground strap system or not. Or, at the very least, weak coils will fail if used with an ignition amp and ground strap system. A couple people seem to be saying that the HKS and MSD systems perform the same function. I was under the impression that the HKS system increases the duration of the spark discharge as well as the intensity/amplitude, whereas the MSD amplifiers only does the later. Yes, no, maybe? This is off the HKS site: "The Twin Power ignition amplifier incorporates both the CDI and transistor method ignition to provide optimum spark duration and maximum voltage output, resulting in crisper throttle response and a smoother engine power band. The CDI method, capacity discharge ignition, provides maximum voltage by transferring all stored energy in the capacitor to the ignition coil so that the ignition current can buildup quickly, thus making the Twin Power very effective in the higher revs where a normal spark would tend to diminish. This strong rapid spark prevents the high rpm ignition miss that reduces peak power. The transistorized method generates high voltage by using transistors to cut off current to the coil, thus allowing for a long energy discharge. This longer spark duration allows the Twin Power to improve lower RPM throttle response and torque. The combination of the CDI and the transistor method incorporates two distinct systems into one high performance unit, hence the designation of Twin Power. The Twin Power produces a spark output that is typically 1.5-2.5 stronger than of the stock ignition system and consumes about 35% less power input than other ignition amplifiers. Each compact and attractive Twin power unit is constructed of durable anodized aluminum and sealed to prevent corrosion from moisture. General wiring harnesses are included in each unit to aid in installation and mounting. Vehicle Specific wiring harnesses are also available for certain models to further aid in installations that require intricate integration.(CARB E.O. # D-186-22)" The main reason FD owners are using ignition amplifiers is to fix the high-rev "break-up". For this the HKS and the MSD6a have both been proven to work well. Secondary reasons would be to get slightly more power by creating a more effictive combustion. This might be achieved by a stronger spark and/or a longer spark. So in this regard the HKS and the MSD work differently, but has anyone decided that one works better than the other by trying them both? I.E. is the longer spark needed to get the optimal power? And can an aftermarket ECU be used to change the spark duration? (I think most people getting an ignition amplifier probably already have an upgraded ECU) |
Stephen,
Your right, its the crane and Jacobs, with Jacob's being the main one frying coil, not the MSD 6a. Tim |
I just picked up the crane yesterday before I saw this thread...you guys have me worrying now. Is it worth it or should I dump the thing?
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