fluidyne vs mazdacomp radiator
 

hey guys and girls look i need a radiator. i was on the hiway doing about 95 and all of a sudden i had bells and whistels going off i pull over and there was coolant leaking one good thing is that i didnt see smoke comming from the back so now i think that my radiator went out on me if you anyone can give there 2 cents i would like that i allready tried to do the search thing and i get a whole lot of crap that im not looking for so please help im looking at the fuidyne or mazda comp radiator

Fuidyne is thicker and cheeper then the Mazda Comp.
Koyo is the best though, IMO.

Koyo is the biggest (pretty sure) and its cheap (in comparison) its 2" think where as the fluidyne is 1.5" and the stock is 1". more cooling!!! :D

I've never had any efficiency problems with either stock or my current Fluidyne. The stock will finally breach at the end tank joints in time. I think one can make a solid case for any of the three depending on the application.

Be sure to find the leak before you buy a new radiator. Hoses, AST, and temp sender are common sources for coolant leaks.

I just got Koyo couple weeks ago, I am pretty satisfy with it. it looks great!!!!!

I have the fluidyne and it works great and has a great reputation, not that Koyo or mazda comp arn't good as well but many people suggested fluidyne over the others. You can't go wrong with either, I'm just a nut when it comes to running top quality name brands.

Mazdacomp is the best, works like a 3-row. If you can afford it, then git it. Water cooling is 75% and our cars can "not" handle overheating. Chances are you've got blown o-rings from just this one incident.

and how do you know this? dont get the guy scared for no reason. hopefully the system alerted him before damage was done.

On the Gothamracing website there is a remark on the Koyo radiator saying they had some troubles when used with a FMIC.

Anybody got info on that??

The mazdacomp has ducting around the sides that helps seal ot off so the air has to go thru the core. The others done have this.

STEPHEN

Why would you write something like this:confused:

The Mazdacomp is smaller than the Fluidyne and Koyo. If the guy pulled over right away, there is no way that he would have blown his o-rings. The engine won't overheat instantly.

I would check your hoses before buying a new radiator. Its probably a bad hose, or one came off.

Ducts can be made, I would rather have a thicker radiator core.

GoRacer, I expected better from you.

Actually the Mazda Comp and Fluidyne both have a 1.5" thick core compared to the 1' thick stock and the Koyo has a 2" thick core.

In addition the Mazda Comp has ducts (more like wings on the sides) to keep the air from going around the sides.

STEPHEN

Incorrect

Size comparison as follows:

Stock = 1"
Mazda Comp = 1.33"
Fluidyne = 1.5"
Koyo = 2"

My info is just acording to info on Lightening in a World of Thunder where someone measured it with dial calipers and said it was 1.5" thick. Could be that its changed since then though. Course even on SR's website where he is trying to compare it to his it shows to be 1.4 with a tape measure and if you look close the metal peice on the end of a tape can move as much as .1 so it wouldnt supprise me if it was really 1.5"

But if you measured on at 1.33" then who knows.

STEPHEN

my old mazda comp was 1.38" thk, vs 1.0 stock and 1.5 fluidyne, and 2 koyo.

mazda comp alum side plates assume no ac lines ... I removed side plates and made better fitting closed cell foam pieces, like stock.

mazda comp front core area was less than stock, and had unfined tubes near the tanks. I figured net was a disappointing 25% better than stock. took lots of mods to make the fan frame fit properly on the radiator.

The fluidyne core has full stock front area, no unfinned tubes, and 1.5" core for about 50% gross improvement. Much better than M-comp, imho.

Since you've had both did you ever happen to count how many fins per inch they both had? Thats about the most important factor in heat exchange for a radiator

I've been very curious of the fin count on all these radiators.

I'm suprised about the fin problem around the endtanks on the Mazda Comp....that being an AWR core and all. Or at least it is now.....maybe they have changed cores at some point cause the pics certainly look like its a very high density of fins.

STEPHEN

Can you guys count the fins for me? I'm wondering about the Mazda Comp, Fluidyne, and Koyo, and I guess any other misc radiators out there. Just mark off an inch and count how many fins there are.

It would be a big help if anyone can do that.

STEPHEN

AWR starts with the finest radiator cores available, from Ron Davis Racing, to build it's high performance and competition radiators for Mazda vehicles. There is a controversy as to whether BTU's should be used to compare radiators. We say no. Track tested performance is what matters. CLICK HERE to see why.
You can now purchase AWR's parts through it's online store. Most of AWR's radiators are also available through MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development's racing support program, to eligible racers. You may also purchase direct from AWR or selected items through RX7.com or Protege5online.com.

This 6061-T6 all aluminum competition radiator features a heavy duty 1-125" core, and bolt in replacement into your 3rd gen Mazda RX-7. This radiator will keep your RX-7 rotary engine cool. Featuring a multi louvered fin design, this race radiator is equivalent to a 3 row radiator in cooling performance, but without the added bulk. Bolt in installation. No modifications required.

There are cheaper radiators out there, but they are not as good. Many people have purchased the 'other' brands to save money, but end up spending more money when they have to buy AWR's radiator AFTER wasting money on another radiator that didn't do the job.

Due to it's uncompromising quality and efficiency, this is chosen by Mazdaspeed Motorsports as their race radiator for the Mazda RX-7.

This is the BEST radiator your can get for your RX-7

He could have easily blown his o-rings with only one event just as I did and the race shop was suprised my car was driveable. The problem is it is a slow process and just gets worse. I had 15k mi on my rebuild when I blew my o-rings. As you can see from the link below, i'm quoting AWR. As for the o-ring experiance that was my own and not hearsay or made up. I too have had o-ring denial and i'm still not over it as my engine sits in my garage on a damn crate! Furthermore, if you read MazdaCompetition's web site it states that water cooling is 75% which leaves oil cooling at 25%. :eek: :(

http://www.awrracing.com/pages/cooling.html

The Fluidyne has a larger capacity, and is also a direct bolt in. The Fluidyne brand is well known as top of the line quality. I don't think the Mazdacomp is any better, and is certainly not worth the extra money. The best radiator I could get would be something I had custom made for my car, to fit with the mods I have. It would be very expensive, and not worth the price IMO.

If he pulled over right away, chances are very slim that he would blow an o-ring. If his o-ring was about to go anyway, that would certainly increase the odds a little.

Bad hoses cause my o-ring failure or at least in my conclusion. Coolant leaking out causing hot spots, which in turn causing overheating which in turn causing warpage and allowing the o-rings to get unseated. Once that's happened it only get's worse and a rebuild is needed. This is what i've concluded from my own engine from tearing it down myself. I have one with a small slit and another that bursted afterwards but since it was covered with a rubber sleeve I never saw the break. This is the small one to the turbos that I've posted for everyone to replace. I replaced mine with a Fluidyne but as I said the damage was allready done and the o-rings were allready blown. Since cooling is 75% water, then the Mazdacomp radiator is "not" over priced and certainly cheaper then a rebuild which cost me $5k and is still not back in my damn car.

I pulled over imediately and left the fans on and opened the hood but as anyone has experienced it only takes a fraction of a second to overheat and then it's too late!

Sounds like someone has had the wool pulled over their eyes by AWR's marketing department.

Simplly put, there are two ways to lower water temps.

1) increase air flow over the radiator
or
2) inrease the surface area of the radiator core.

There is no way in hell that a 1.125" radiator will cool better the a 2" will.

Sorry GoRacer, try again.

A fraction of a second to overheat !!:rlaugh: :rlaugh:

I don't think so :rolleyes:

You won't be laughing when yours blows! That's just silly to assume i'm mistaken when I have personal experience with this and obviously you don't. Everyone know the stock water temp gauge is incorrect and will not move untill the engine has "allready" overheated which is why it only takes a second for it to climb to the top ...because it was already there. It doesn't matter or change reality if you don't think so because i'm posting my experience. Welcome to o-ring denial.

You can go to your local ODA weekly meeting and get your chip. Hello everyone, my name is Adam C and I have o-ring denial.
Hello Adam C :wave:

I would bet that you engine went becasue you did not have a functional temperature guage.

Well, I do have an aftermarket water temp gauge. I hope that I am watching it when it shoots up to 250 degrees in a fraction of a second.

BTW, I have been racing and working on RX7's for 22 years. You are not the only one who has torn apart a blown engine. Hello Mr. Experience :D

I would contact the manufacturors as well if I were you.

No I didn't have an aftermarket or acurate temp guage. I Can't say without a warning light and/or buzzer on it "preset" to my desired temp that I wouldn't have overlooked it either.

I never said a "aftermarket" temp guage would climb in a second, I said the OEM "stock" gauge would and you actually know that. The needle stays at warm untill it's allready overheated and that's why you have the aftermarket one. The original poster does not mention owning an aftermarket guage and this is gotten off topic. He's asking for experience. It doesn't matter that I only opened one block, I still replied with my experience. I replied with links to AWR and Mazdacomp which is where I got my info from on the radiator and water cooling. If anyone can prove those two companies wrong then great, we all benefit from the posted results. If I had the money, i'd sell my Fluidyne and buy a Mazdacomp and run evens coolant and install a real water temp guage with a warning light.

My reply still stands: If he can afford it to get the mazdacomp version. If anyone can prove Fluidyne is better then great, we all benefit. Untill that happens, I think Mazdacomp/AWR is a better choice. Everyone can post what they think, that's what this forum is for.

In the For What Its Worth department, my first aftermarket radiator was a Mazdacomp. It blew a leak in one corner for no apparent reason, so while I may be the sole failure in the history of that unit...my opinion as to its quality isn't so high. I ended up replacing it with a PWR, and I've been happy with it. No overheating here in South FL (to be fair I never overheated with the Mazdacomp either) and no giant leaks in the parking lot at work :D It didn't have the "wings" ont he side, which was actually fine with me because I have a Pettit intake and its supposed to get air from that space. The PWR was also nicely polished, not that you can see it once its installed.

jds

so whats the best rad to get if lets say you're going to get a fmic at the same time..

i mean like so you dont have to do any cutting or fabricating to make them both fit..

If any of you guys can do a fin count for me I'd greatly appreciate it. All you need to do is count the fins in one inch. I'd like the info no matter which radiator you have

Thanks,
STEPHEN

Anyone?

repost from performance forum:

fin counts:

19 stock 93
18 mazdacomp (~96-97)
13 fluidyne (~00-01)

Thanks a ton Kevin.

Anyone know what the Koyo count is?

STEPHEN

Featuring a multi louvered fin design, this race radiator is equivalent to a 3 row radiator in cooling performance, but without the added bulk.

Isn't that a similar innovation that Apexi uses on their FMIC's which everyone beleives is the best design?

Since AWR uses Ron Davis cores and it's purchased by Mazdacomp, you are saying all 3 of them are hype? Anyhow, you didn't prove them wrong. Efficency can beat size just like in ball bearing turbos.

Who were the add wizards that came up with that one.

Thermo dynamics and over all surface area assist in cooling.

Smaller radiators = less surface area = less coolant capacity = less airflow over actual area = less efficiency. Its simple math.


Try again GoRacer ;)

if the mazdacomp has 18 fins per inch vs 13 on the fluidyne then it has more surface area.

Cooling fins are only one aspect of surface area. In fact, too many fins would block too much air, and reduce cooling efficiency. You cannot just say that more fins are better.

Number of cooling tubes is also a big factor in surface area, and efficiency.

For arguments sake:

Lets say that the AWS radiator that GoRacer is championing has the same fin count as the Mazda Comp radiator.

Also for argument sake, lets say the Koyo has the same fin count as the Fluidine radiator. (I am championing the Koyo).

AWS = 18 fins per square inch.
KOYO = 13 fins per square inch.

*KOYO'S ACTUAL NUMBERS HAVE NOT BEEN LISTED HERE.

This measurement unfortunately does not take into account the thickness of the radiators.

AWS = 1.125" thick (according to GoRacer)
KOYO = 2" thick.

AWS = 18 fins per square inch X 1.125" = 20.25
Koyo = 13 fins per square inch X 2" = 26

That was my argument on efficiency of the radiator. This does not take into account the fact that more coolant is in contact with the cooling surface area on a Koyo then on an any of the above mentioned radiators. For arguments sake, this is the Mazda Comp's numbers and the fluidine radiator numbers.

Mazda Comp = 18 fins per square inch X 1.38" = 24.84
Fluidine = 13 fins per square inch X 1.5" = 19.5

This is my argument that the KOYO radiator is the best radiator that you can buy for a RX-7.

Jason C. Williams

That's not a good argument either. Your cooling airflow that is transferring heat away from the radiator is entering the front...by the time it hits the back fins its already much hotter and therefore able to carry away less heat. A radiator that is twice as thick is much less than twice as "good" because of this.

jds

Your not taking into account that there is twice as much coolant in a given square inch of radiator surface becasue of the thickness of the core.

Air velocity plays a big part in cooling. If your fans are running at high speed, the air goes thru the radiator so quickly, that it is not in there long enough to increase in temperature very much. In this case, the rear portion of the fins will provide nearly as much cooling as the front.

Conversely, if you are stopped, with no fans running, a larger capacity radiator will keep the car from heating up as quickly .......... advantage Koyo.

All that being said, I chose the Fluidyne because of increased capacity AND fitment. :)

There are MANY balances in deciding the most efficient way to design a IC and many factors come into play.

There has to be a balance between, thickness, fin count, surface area, amount of ambient air hitting the radiator, and speed your traveling. Then you select a fan based on all that cause it all chances the efficiency of the fan. Its damn crazy I tell ya, I never thought of them in so much depth till I started doing my own custom radiator and IC.

To give you a little info about mine, its got more surface area than any of these mentioned, is thicker than any of them, will have the correct fin count for our application, is dual pass, and is also going to cost MORE haha. But hey, you'll get what you pay for.

Anyway, when its all said and done if you guys ask real nice I might start selling them ;)

STEPHEN

Fluidynes are nice but they are not a direct bolt-in. I've had to lower the rad a little so the IC duct (stock one) would fit and the upper rad hose pipe requires trimming of the fan plastic.

3 different NEW Fluidynes fit the same way.

I didn't have to lower the radiator duct, but I did have to trim the fan bracket.

uhm ok, please :D

We are excluding http://griffinrad.com/faq.php and by the way AWR is the manufacturer of Mazdaspeed radiators which is also sold by Mazdacomp (4 z newb's).

thank to all with the info i hope that this can awnser some of the those ? for others that looked on the search and could find anything thanks again