FD in 1991?
 

I seen some japansese RX-7 FDs on the web that has 1991 on them. But doesn't the FD-Generation start at 1993?
It went under the name Mazda RX-7 Type R.

Is this just miss print or what up with these cars?

i am not sure of the true answer but seeing Japan makes them it is possible. There are alot of things that dont make it here thanks to "laws" and crap.

iirc, the first FD's were available in early 1992 in certain countries

my FD is a 92

mine was delivered to the original buyer (the guy i bought it from) in April of 1992... meaning i probably have one of the first RX-7s sold in the US :D that aside, i was under the impression that there was NO 1991 RX-7 ever built... sort of a transition year.

I think there was a 91 2nd gen... and then no 92 (in this country), with the FD picking up as a 93 model.

production started october 91 - so there are definitely 91 FDs out there - whether or not they were badged 91, is another matter (I have a feeling I may have seen one in the japanese classifieds)

I think we're talking about two different things... date of manufacture, and model year. My car shows a build date sometime in '92, but is a '93 model. There was no U.S. '92 model, and I believe there was a '91 2G. There may have been '92 model year FD's elsewhere, just like there were 96-on models that we didn't get.

Ok I found the answer in my trusty book shelf :)

The model I found was the Mazda RX-7 Infini IV which was built in 1991-1992. This was a domestic RX-7 that became a real myth car.
This was a concept model that had more in common with 2G RX-7 then the 3G, but this car developed into the 3G RX-7 we saw later. Kind of a hybrid between the generations.

Don't know how many of them they built.

If someone has detailed pictures of the Infini IV please post them, I would really like to get a close look on it.

The fd that we know today as far as I know starts from 92. Mine is a 92 (year manufactured) and there are tons of other 92's in this country.

Yes the FD first year was 1992 but the Infini IV was built already in 1991 and it didn't have specs of a FD. It was FD-like body with the old FC engine.
Another interesting fact is that it wasn't named RX-7 but only had the name Infini IV on it.

This car is extremly rare, so it's not an FD at all but some mutant car.

BTW: I love you FD, paintjob is just great!

OK, time to straighten this out :).

In the US, the FC's were sold with model years of 86-91. FD's were sold with model years of 93-95. In the US, there was no '92 RX-7 - the '93s showed up as "early" 93's, and dealers sold leftover '91s while waiting for the FD.

In Japan and the rest of the world, the FD debuted as a '92 model year model, with actual production of the car starting in Dec. 91. Again, the build date and the model year aren't directly correlated - this is typical in the car industry. For example, you could buy a 2004 RX-8 in August of 2003 here in the US.

The Infini IV has been warped into something it's not by slightly overstated entries in RX-7 books and the Internet. There were multiple Infini models of the FC available in Japan, but the Infini IV was brought to the US by Mazda for a press tour. The Infini IV was simply a black FC turbo, lightweight (no radio, etc.) with tuned suspension, slightly bumped horsepower with bolt-on mods, race seats, front strut tower brace, etc. While the car is way cool, at the end of the day it's just an FC with some bolt-ons. The only thing it had to do with the FD was it was showing the direction Mazda was taking with the FD - more elemental, stiffer suspension, more "true" sports car. That's it. There are NO FD parts or anything else FD-related about it - it's simply an FC with bolt-ons sold as a special package option in Japan.

The real "final" FC was a dark green/tan leather 'vert in Japan, I think it was called the "conclusion" model or something. That was supposedly the last FC's built before they started the production line for the FD.

Dale

Wrong about the 92 3rd gen.

The series-6 (92-95) RX-7 arrived into the USA in the first half of 1992. May-92 to be exact.

Even though they where introduced in May, many had Jan,Feb or Mar-92 production dates. etc

In fact, over 60% of USA sales are 92-models. Sales took a steep nose dive for the 93- model, which lead to the cars ultimate removal from the USA market at the end of the "series-6" production run in DEC-95.

Production actually started in late-91 for the domestic release in Japan. The rest of the world followed in early 92 once stock had built up.

As for the "Infini" version of the "series-4" (86-88) & the "series-5" (89-91) in Japan, dont confuse those special edition RX-7's with the 3-rd gen "Efini RX-7" which was the sales channel Mazda Japan sold the "series-6" & "series-7" versions through. For the "series-8" version of 99-02, Mazda dropped the "Efini" channel & sold them directly as a "Mazda RX-7".


Eg, Australia got there 92-models from APR-92, one month ahead of the USA.

A basic table for those that are keen to know...........

SA RX-7 (USA=FB)

series-1 = 78-80
series-2 = 81-83
series-3 = 84-85

FC RX-7

series-4 = 86-88
series-5 = 89-91

FD RX-7

series-6 = 92-95
series-7 = 96-98
series-8 = 99-02

Correct. The design for the FD was developed in the late 80's, and finalized in 1990.

Anyone have a picture of this mythical FC/FD creature?

~Kris

And were sold and registered as '93s...

There is no such thing as a 1992 RX-7 in the United States. The VIN numbers for the FD start with 1993 ("P") and end with 1995 ("S") regardless of build date.

There isn't one...

91.10 - 93.8 I ('series 6')

93.8 - 95.3 II (last 'efini' model)

95.3 - 96.1 III ('series 7')

96.1 - 98.12 IV

98.12 - 00.10 V ('series 8')

00.10 - 02.8 VI


As noted above, US system is problematic, as all 92s were sold as 93s. The 'series' system of dating is purely an australian terminology.

2nd generation ended in mid 92. They are definitly the rarest year, but it was when the change was made.

same here:D

Remember that just because we in the USA call a car a "1993 model year" doesn't mean that other countries will not call them a 1991 or 1992 model year. I have seen 1991 3rd generation cars being advertised for sale in Japan websites. They (I BELIEVE JUST AN OPINION HERE) refer to the car more in the series terms instead of the year or model year terms. When looking at the Japanese websites, everything is advertised for sale without stating the model years.

Saying this, is there a 1991 3rd gen car, Yes. Was there a 1991 or 92 in the US, No unless imported or early production released as a 1993 model year car.

Tim

Yeah there are a few 91 model imports here in Australia. As the FC RX-7 production stopped in SEP-91, the FD production kicked in the next month. Like Japan, we call a 92 model car a "92 model".

From our side of the world it sure seems strange understanding the wanky system used in the USA.

Most USA FD sales where made in 92. Most FD's delivered during the MAY-92 release where Jan or Feb or Mar-92 production yet they are all called 93 models..... :(

A question regarding the hypocrasy here. Since the 92 models where called a "93-model". Why aren't the 95-models called a "96-model".........????

that 1st rx rolled of the production line on the 28th of december 1991

pretty sure its in Jack Yamagucci's book. I'm sure I spelled his name wrong too. No pics though

Re-read Dale's post about the the Infini IV below. It was basically a lightened FC built to keep the press happy while they were waiting for the unveiling of the FD.

here is a helpful link backing up December '91 being first production of FD, also carries good specs and info on RX from 1978 to 2002.

http://www.j-garage.com/6110.htm

NB: JDM

Jim I'm not going to crack open the book but I remember it being a different body than an FC...possibly with an fc engine as someone else mentioned

There were no RX-7's sold as an FD body with an FC engine, as was claimed above. There were test vehicles using FC bodies to hide their work, but that is not what is being talked about in this topic.

I never said it was an FD body and neither did lone raider...as I remember reading it was very similar to an FD body...don't make me break out the book. These are actual production numbers, not model years: 2nd gen, 1991-15648 1992-245 3rd gen 1991-975 1992-26654 1993-6801 1994-5962 1995-5202 1996-4762 1997-3556 1998-1423 1999-4151

How cool, that's my birthday.

Yes I remember reading that Infini IV was some kind of crossover, but since there isn't a single photo of the Infini IV this discussion is heading for a deadend.

Well it wasn't. A quick search could have answered that. ;)

http://www.rx7uknet.dircon.co.uk/rx7_fc3s_4.html
Information is listed under "the ultimate second generation RX-7."

NO NO NO - North America NEVER got a 1992 MODEL Year RX-7 (FC or FD), US SALES of the 93 Model year RX-7 (FD) started w/ the FD's North American introduction at the LA Auto show in Jan 1992, with the first US Deliveries in APRIL 1992. ALL US/North American models were sold as model years 93-95 even though the final dealer stocks of US 95's were not sold out until mid 1996. The PRODUCTION of North American (and iirc European) LHD FD's started in DEC 1991, or about 3 months after the start of production of the RHD FD's that were sold in the Japan/Austrialian/Asian market as 1992's

Maybe the one I was remembering reading about was not called the infini...who knows. The car I read about is actually in Mike Ancas' book not Jack Y's and I am about 95% sure it was a cross between 2nd and 3rd gens in one way or another.

Similar to the corvette placing masking markers over the body to disguise the car while in development.

If it was a cross between a 2nd and 3rd gen., it was an FC with a 13B-REW and possibly other components of the drivetrain and suspension. The previous model is often used for testing of a new model's powertrain and suspension components because it's readily available and it masks the changes from prying eyes. Testing of the C6's new LS2 engine in C5 Corvettes, for example.

No FD was ever produced with an FC powertrain, and no FC/FD combination was ever produced in quantity or offered for sale.

Yep I recognise that, and i'm sure that that it also said that this myth car wasn't a car with just panels stuck on to it to hide details but it really was a original car.
And that Mazda executives actually owned these cars.

No I don't think it was ever produced for sales purposes but only a in company promo car for domestic Japan market, more of a rolling concept than a production car.

I don't know how much weight this holds, but on the RX-7 screensaver that I downloaded from the Jap. Mazda site a while ago says "September 1991 FD3S"

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but the US did get a '92 model year RX-7 (in fact, it was produced through august of '92, making it a '93, in essence). If you belive it or not, the Convertible FC was the ONLY '92 RX-7 produced. They built it longer, just to give the world the only rotary convertible a little longer, being that the FD didn't have a cabriolet option.

If you don't belive me, go to www.mazdamark.com and go to FC specs, then the s5 specs page. They go in depth into the info on the Infini IV and the '92 convertible.

Correct... in fact mine was fabbed in December 1991!!

David

Thank you for that link, I really don't know what the book really meant on it having a diffrent body than the standard FC versions. I see no real diffrence.

Mine is no. 207 with mfg. date 12/91.

there was no "cross-over". the infini IV was the ultimate FC, as in it was FC in its final and fully developed form. it was a sign of what's to come in the FD, but nothing really crossed over. FD made its debut in october of 1991 in japan, and just under 1000 were made for the '91 MY, i'd guess a good number of those didn't reach showrooms but were press cars, etc. so for the japanese market, technically there were both MY '91 FC's and FD's

It has been stated that the FC made it to model year 1992, and proven.

It has been stated that the FD made its run in late 92' as a 93' model year and began production in 91' in Hiroshima.

Mazda may have made a car with and FC chassis but differant looks as a show car to get everyone hyped for the FD... now what it looks like is the ultimate Q... if it did exist there must be pics somewhere.

~Kris

No, it appeared on a personal web site, which does not constitute proof. Someone cough up a title or registration showing that they have either an FC or FD registered in the United States as a 1992 model, and then we'll see proof. Or not...

Short of that, try to find a 1992 RX-7 listed by Edmunds, Kelley, NADA or on Carpoint or any other used car web site.

I sear i saw a 1992 listed on autotrader.

Maybe the guy was mistaken.

Someone go ask in the FC forum.

Or reading the build date off the door jamb sticker. $5 says the VIN had a "P" in it for 1993.

Jimlab is right there was no 1992 fc the production stopped in 1991, whoever is selling that RX-7 doesn't know what he has.The first 3rd gen did start production in Dec. 1991 and the first ones that was sold in the U.S was sold in mid 1992 but it was a 1993 moldel.In the U.S there is no such car as i 1992 RX-7 you have a 3rd gen if the production date is 1992.

With this ever confusing issue of calling a 92 model car a "93-model" for the USA market & some even doubting the fact that FD production started in Oct-91.

I think a real easy way of dealing with this is to simply go with what Mazda Japan say. Thats where the cars came from. Thats there origin. Whether some USA marketing wanker wants to call a car that was built in DEC-91 a "93 model" should be dis-regarded as it creates too much confusion with the large percentage of international visitors to this forum & even many of you Americans who see this as confusing too. Perhaps stating them as a 91 would create the same confusion the "93" issue does (despite starting in Japan back then) but as a 92 would be more generally accepted since thats when they came "on-line" around the world.

I propose "BOOSTED7" to change the directory from "93-current" which is clearly wrong, to 92-02 which is accepted everywhere but the USA. However, this forum has the ability to replace this American misconception & set the record straight.

REgards