Which electronic boost controller ?
 

Been searching to find what brand/model is the best for a stock sequential setup. My car is boosting to 12psi and I want to get it back to 10 or 11 max. There is a whole other thread about why I'm boosting to 12 if you're interested in the details....
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/12-psi-4th-5th-stock-car-926710/

The only conclusive thing I could find is that GoodfellaFD3S hates the Greddy Profec Type II and that the original Profec and Type S are good.

There are so many different models for sale. I would like to have one that displays boost. Do any of them display vacuum as well?

Any opinions or info would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully this thread will be useful for others in the future.

This info has been posted 1000x over the years. General concensus is the Profec B is the way to go. Either version really is essentially the same, one just has the digital readout/controls where the other has no screen and just uses knobs. The one with the display shows vac too fyi. I wouldnt ever rely on this display for boost/vac readings as it is kinda slow reacting and being digital it is a little bit harder to see the boost pattern as the numbers are flying by through the RPM spectrum.

Dont have time to read your other thread, but just make sure you are purchasing the right part to fix your current problem. Overboosting stock turbo systems are usually a flow rate problem (ie wastegate is not allowing enough air to bypass turbos), not a turbo control problem. Like I said dont know if you know this already, just dont go wasting $300.00 + for something you might not need at all.

Greddy actually has four controllers, at least from the past 10 years.

-- Greddy Profec B - this is discontinued. It has 3 knobs and a stepper motor. The middle knob says "balance" on it and there is a dipswitch on the back

-- Greddy Profec S - this replaced the Profec B. It has 3 knobs and a 3 port solenoid (basically the same as the Apex'i and AEM solenoid). The middle knob says "gain" on it. It's one of the easiest to use affordable electronic boost controllers out there. It's pretty hard to screw this one up. I like it, but you do have to put the box somewhere.

-- Greddy Profec Spec II - this uses a 3 port solenoid like the Profec S. It's commonly derided as confusing and hard to use, but it actually works a lot like the AEM Tru Boost except it has some feedback capability. The instructions are not very intuitive and I wouldn't recommend it to a n00b.

-- Greddy E-01 - this is an expensive unit. it has a display and is configured kind of like the Spec II. It's not really worth getting IMO. It's meant to work alongside with the Greddy Emanage.

You didnt mention your but I've always had Greddy Profec B (classic version) in my previous cars, was fairly happy with it. I'm thinking of trying Blitz Dual SBC (or sbc-id) in the RX7 cause I've heard good things about it and it's dual solenoid. You might want to look into that. Good luck.

Greddy Profec Spec II is the most featured (out of the Greddy's and ignoring the E01) and the best one in my opinion. If you don't like electronics and just want some knobs, the Profec S is a good option for you. Been using my Spec II for 4 years with zero problems. I have also tuned many cars with them in it and zero issues. I believe the whole 'its not as reliable" thing comes from the fact that its the most sold unit and like arghx mentioned, isn't an instantly intuitive to learn device. However, once you figure it out, your like omg this is easy.

Apexi AVC-R. I like this one a lot but it would be more difficult to use then the Spec II. With some extra time, you can tune boost by gear and RPM which is an awesome feature. Also, its a little bulky compared to other boost controllers.

AEM truboost is a nice gauge and boost controller in one. The features are pretty much the same as the Spec II once you figure it out. I don't personally like it but that is just a preference, It does the same job.

The HKS EVC is probably the most difficult to use imo. This one isn't intuitive at all even after understanding how to up the boost with it >_>. I would not recommend this one to anyone but that's just me.

thewird

I like this one if running twins....
 

If running the twins, which can be really fun if working right, I like the HKS EVC-EZ.

It is used by tons of guys in Japan. It is different than any other HKS model.

HKS even has "special" supplemental installation instructions for it when used with an FD w/twin turbos. These do not come w/the controller and are only available in Japanese as far as I know. However, the vacum routing is all you really need and the pictures are good no matter what language.

I am actually thinking of selling mine if your interested.

http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...93R1PB/053.jpg
http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/...93R1PB/010.jpg

Engine pic shows stepper motor mounted in center of right side inner fender.
Dash pic shows boost controller mounted on top of steering hub.

With this boost controller I can control the boost up & down with the gas pedal, and it always holds boost.

Opps...
 

You want one that displays boost. Ok, I assume you dont have a good boost guage then? If not you need one. I find it hard to believe you dont have one though.

However, if you are dead set on the display, then I recommend the AEM TruBoost
boost controller. RX7 Store has these and I know the work great for dyno tuning.

I love my EVC, just set it and boom, I am there. I have however never used it on twins.

I have a VDO mechanical boost gauge. I got it because I know VDO makes good stuff and it's foolproof, however I wouldn't mind having an empty spot in my guage pod for something else someday. I do wonder about the accuracy of the gauge. When the car is off the needle is into the vacuum range showing 1" Hg. I'm not sure if this translates into it reading 1 psi low on boost so recently I've been concerned.

The AEM system appeals to me because it's also a gauge but I was concerned that it would not work well with the sequential system. It doesn't seem like there have been a lot of guys using it and I really didn't want to go trailblazing into unknown territory.

I searched for "AEM" and could not find much other than posts about the AEM water injection system that I made myself.

Your right on...
 

There probably isnt alot on the TruBoost, I think its kinda new. Its kinda new to me anyway. I think it works ok w/twins though. I prefer a boost guage that reads boost psi only and no vacum, but I'm sure thats just preference.

My Autometer guage and HKS EVC-EZ have always worked flawlessly when I was running twins (14psi).

Most important guage in my opinion though is a quality oil pressure guage.

Interested in my HKS EVC-EZ? Remember this is a great one for FD w/twins and hard to find I suspect.

AEM truboost works identical to the Spec II, both in solenoid which is just a MAC valve and controls, duty cycle + have wastegate shut until X boost + gain% + overboost boost cut. I tuned one car with it on sequential twins without issue. It's just a slightly harder to navigate through the options but same end result.

thewird

No thanks, as nice as it probably is I try to stay away from used electronics.

I think that I would get the AEM if I end up getting one. I might trying drilling a restrictor pill and seeing if this fixes anything.

AEM Tru Boost does not have a gain setting but it has all the other features you mentioned. Its only boost tuning settings are

1) "Spring" to set the pressure at which the gate will be allowed to open. This corresponds to the Spec II's "Start Boost" aka SET GAIN

2) "Duty" which is the equivalent of "SET" on the Spec II. This is a solenoid duty cycle setting for after the wastegate is allowed to open.

There is no closed loop/feedback/gain system on the AEM Tru Boost.

Hmm, your right it has no gain after going through the manual again. For some reason I remembered it as having it. Ah well, everything else is the same though.

thewird

Does anybody have or have experience with the HKS EVC-S ?

arghx, do know something about it? I was hoping there may be something specific in the HKS instructions about running it on a sequential FD setup.

http://www.hksusa.com/products/more.asp?id=3723
http://www.rx7store.net/ProductDetai...de=45003-AK009

The display looks small and easy to read, would fit under the speedo real easy. It seems fairly simple and is not too expensive.

The specific FD setup instructions that come with some boost controllers are nothing special and doesn't mean the boost controller will work better with the sequential twins. All boost controllers work in some way pretty much when it comes to hooking it up.

This is how you hook up a a boost controller on an FD with twins... Version 1 is your standard boost controller hookup and is what most people do. Version 2 was something that was started being done to have more consistent boost through weather changes. By doing version 2, your eliminating the ability for the ECU to prespool the 2nd turbo which also keeps the ECU from interfering with anything boost related. Which one you use is up to you and trying both to see which works best for you doesn't hurt. I have used both and on my car as well as other peoples cars and what I noticed is version 2 creates more of a kick when the 2nd turbo comes online and is more prone to spiking when it comes on a little and then comes down (especially on unported wastegates).

All electronic boost controllers will be hooked up in this manner. You just need to reference your manual to find which port goes to the boost source and which goes to the wastegate which is a universal thing depending on the wastegate type. Twins use an internal wastegate which is an actuator type.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...&postid=952472

thewird

http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/EVC-S-map.jpg
http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=3717
thread on Supraforums about it: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho....php?p=7199223

HKS EVC-S has the "S" in the name because it uses a solenoid, as opposed to the stepper motor used in the other HKS EVC products and in the discontinued Greddy Profec B. The solenoid appears to be the same Denso solenoid used in the Greddy and Apex'i controllers, which is functionally equivalent to the MAC solenoid rebranded as AEM. The EVC-S looks to be a direct competitor of the Greddy Profec Spec II and the controls aren't much different.

In post #13 the OP says this "Now, the problem with a boostcontroller is that it cannot lower boost, it can only raise it from where its default value is."

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho....php?p=7199223

Is that correct? It seems to me that a boost controller can lower boost.

A boost controller cannot lower boost below the wastegate spring level. That's the lowest you can go without a boost problem which is ~7 PSI on the stock twins.

HKS EVC S. Hands down best boost controller i've ever seen or owned.

Now that makes perfect sense.

Are you running the stock twins? How difficult was the setup?

"I have a VDO mechanical boost gauge. I got it because I know VDO makes good stuff and it's foolproof, however I wouldn't mind having an empty spot in my guage pod for something else someday. I do wonder about the accuracy of the gauge. When the car is off the needle is into the vacuum range showing 1" Hg. I'm not sure if this translates into it reading 1 psi low on boost so recently I've been concerned."

I have actually heard otherwise about vdo products. I wonder if this could actually be your problem of overboosting. The gauge may just be reading incorrectly, which seems it already is since its not zeroed out at rest.

I e-mailed rx7store.net asking about the HKS EVC-S with stock turbos and here is the response I got....

Adam,
The HKS unit doesnt work very well with the stock turbos. I would go with the greddy profec or AEM tru boost.

Thanks

Adam,

You are going to get as many answers as you get responses. At some point, you'll have to make up your own mind and get something.

Yeah I know. At this point I think I'm going to go with the AEM Truboost. I think it will fit in my center dual guage pod, looks to be a 52mm and will replace my VDO boost/vac gauge that I am not completely confident in anyways. Sort of kill two birds with one stone. I'd like to not buy anything but if I drive the car when it's 40 outside I might have a problem and I certainly don't want that. Cheaper to be proactive.

Cheaper to drill the pill ;)

You're a cheap bastard. :rofl:

like I was saying, buy 3 factory pills and drill each of them to different sizes. Then try each one. it would still be faster, easier, and cheaper than installing a boost controller and tuning it plus it would cost you basically nothing. worst case scenario you buy the AEM

as for the EVC-S not working well on stock turbos, I'm skeptical of that. It works just like every other EBC out there with a solenoid. They clearly copied their competitors' design. It's the exact same Denso solenoid that Greddy and Apex'i use.

Alright I'm going to buy three pills and give that a shot. Does the larger pill size actually lower the boost, or just allow the car to lower the boost more effectively if necessary? I just don't want to be running around on 8psi when it's hot outside.

Arghx and AdamC, I am only working with the wastegate pill correct? So I'll call Ray and get three of them and then go to a machine tools supply house and get the 3 consecutively larger drill bits starting at the 1st bit up from .062"

Hypothetically if the first larger hole size works, would it hurt to go with the next larger size.

It allows more air to flow to the wastegate. The ECU has some limited feedback capability to make up for that.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1287410919

That's not a direct answer to your question but I have never seen the internal boost control mapping in the factory computer. I have dealt with it on Subarus which also use restricter pills. Sometimes you have to go with a bigger or smaller pill on those cars, but it's a little easier because you can reprogram the factory boost controller built into the ECU.

Don't drill it too big.

You don't need to buy 3 pills. Remove the wastegate pill, and drill it ever so slightly larger. That's all you need to do. This will lower your boost. If it is not enough (which it most likely will be) take it out and drill it again. Do not do anything to the precontrol pill.

When you drill the pill, remember that it is made of a soft material. Take care not to crush it if you put it in a vice to hold it for drilling.

I called Ray to order three pills and he said they come in a set of two, already pressed into the hoses, they were around $40 per package for the two hoses. Maybe I said something wrong but I told him what I was doing and he said "you know thats going to lower your boost" so I think we were talking about the same pill that effects the wastegate.

I will try drilling out the one I have before I order any new ones.

Anybody know if there is a part number for just the restrictor pill and not the hoses too?

Mazda will not sell you the pills alone. Most parts guys don't even know they are in the hoses.

Some Subaru owners use welding tips as a cheap and more easily available replacement for restricter pills.

I saw the chart on the welding tips. I'm going to drill the old one and see what happens.

Holley carb jets can be used in lieu of stock pills and are easily available. Sizes in the 60 -->70+ range should be about right. They are numbered by flow but roughly track orifice size as seen in the following chart. Keep in mind that flow varies as the square of the change in orifice size, so a small increase in diameter can result in a large change. As an example: increasing the orifice size from .060 to .070 results in approximately a 36% increase in area.

Hope this helps.

That is very helpful. If I can't find the right drill bit to get me to .07 or so I'll pick up the right size jet. It will be much cheaper than buying new pills from Mazda.

Didnt get a chance to re-respond. But HKS EVC-S works amazing with non-seq twins (what i am running) and single turbo. More so.. it has functions to control boost response/turbo spool (night and day difference) as well as over boost settings that will drop boost pressure to wastegate spring pressure (7psi). Hands down the best controller I've ever seen, used, etc. I ironically left an indepth review on the West forum the day before I originally posted here. Not to mention the controller is essentially plug n play, no crazy wiring. Well organized, easy install as well as has the thin sleek control unit separate from the main unit allowing for easy and discrete mounting.

Blitz Dual SBC Spec R works flawlessly for my single turbo. I'm confident it would do the same for the twins.

Has anybody tried the EVC-S on a stock sequential setup?

Does the EVC-s display vacuum readings as well?

Anybody?

Why wouldn't it? If it reads boost, it reads vacuum, lol.

thewird

I asked if it displays vacuum. word.

Has anybody tried the Turbosmart e-boost street? Looks very simple, uses a solenoid.

http://www.boostcontroller.com/index...category%3D264

Setup videos
http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?id=

Just get whichever you'd like in your interior. Your over thinking one of the simplest devices you could put in our cars. So unless your buying some chinese knockoff, don't stress over it so much. They all do the same job.

thewird

There is just a lot of information out there. I have read/seen plenty of posts regarding boost controller setup that sounded troublesome, or just problems with boost levels after installing one. I thought maybe somebody might have used this one specifically. I know some are more recommended than others for a stock sequential setup.

knight sports ebc 111 :)

Been sort of looking for one of those. Only heard good things about them. Not really wanting to buy a used piece of electronic equipment with or without japanese instructions though with no tech support or warranty. Maybe I'll come across a nice one though. Probably leaning toward the turbosmart eboost street. It seems like a new version of Greddys original profec for about $75 less than a profec type s and it has a digital display that can function as a boost gauge along with some safety features.