BNR stage 3's???
 

I was just looking at rx7store and saw the new bnr stage 3's. Ive always been thinking about going with BNR's but iam wondering how much power these new guys will make. anybody know anything about em?

Hells yeahs fo shnizzle mah nizzle des double turbo be makin 400 hp at da rear wheels B. Thats runnin da hi boost at 17 psi prolly aight.

Check with GoodfellaFD3S he has them and started a thread about them.

I've got 'em too! They're great. I'm expecting just shy of 400hp at 15psi. I've just started running a little boost now and my car is very responsive. I'm running then non-seq.

They should be good for 400rw on pump gas with good tuning and all the bugs worked out of the car. They are great turbos, WAY more beefy internals than the stockers had. Should hold up much better to high boost.


Stephen

im not sure, but i think 400rwhp on these turbos is a little high for a goal on pump gas. at least it is here in cali, we got shit gas!

At what RPM you get full boost with the BNR"s running non-seq, I'm debating them for a future project.

When you said "WAY more beefy internals" what do you mean by that?, what is the difference or changed to improve from stock internals?
I'd realy like to know.


---------------
Thanx.

Totally new CHRAs. The only thing reused is the comp housings and the turbine housing. The entire assy is longer from front to back, necessitating a modded y pipe and w/g actuator arm. I love mine.....no leaks or drips, and pull like a freight train. 400 rwhp reliably on 93 octane is a distinct possibility. I didn't say definite, I said possible. If I can ever get JD to tune me for more than my current 12 psi, i will have more dyno sheets. Check the dyno section for my low boost sheet.

I can't say for sure on full boost. I'm still breaking in my engine. I can say that non-seq turbo lag is a bunch of BS! I start building boost pretty early and it pulls real hard for only about 7psi of boost.
I'll be posting a more in depth write up once I have my car tuned. Here are my go fast mods though:
BNR Supercars built streetported engine with low compression rotors
BNR Supercars stage 3 non-seq twin turbos
Rotary Extreme V Mount IC with KOYO radiator and Greddy intake elbow
Apexi Power FC stand alone ECU with commander and datalogit
JDM Lower Intake Manifold with block off plates
HKS twin power ignition amp
Stock 550cc primary injectors with upgraded 1300cc secondary injectors
Walbro high flow fuel pump
Down pipe, resonated mid pipe, and Apexi N1 single cat back exhaust
K&N twin intakes with M2 performance hard pipes
Unorthodox full pulley set, removed air pump
TIAL blow off valve
SEC 6 puck clutch
ACT lightweight flywheel (street-lite)
XS Engineering high performance dual stage boost controller
Taylor plug wires, running 4 BUREQP 9's

I've got a set of Stage-3 BNR's I'm looking to sell. They do not have many miles on them. BUT you will need to use your exhaust side turbine blade on one of the turbos as mine has some chips out of the blades. This exhaust side of the BNR uses the stock shaft and blade so you will need your factory part to make these useable. In addition, the manifold has some cracks so you would want to use your exhaust side manifolds as well. I can send some pics if you are interested.

What's the turn around time on these? I tought i read somewhere that it was something like 4 months?!? I know it takes a lot of work to make these turbos, but that's crazy if it's true.

You have the old style stage 3s.....the new style are completely different. The old style (which I had for awhile) are stock assys with diff (larger) compressor wheels as the primary difference.

Not 4 months, but it can take from 1 to 2 months. It all depends on how busy Bryan is. He is a one man show, so his work takes time.

^thanks for clearing that up :).

decisions, decisions, decisions......................

Did BNR ever get a site back up?

He's just got the front page up with his e-mail and phone number.

GoodfellaFD3S
Thanks for clarifying that, btw are you running them non-seq too?

How much are they directly from Brian @ BNR, I see RX-7Store sells them for quiet bit, I'd rather save up lil more and go single, ball bearing instead...





Thanks again.

Yup, non-seq.

go to the bnr website and call the # on the site. I'm sure bryan will be happy to talk to ya :).

these NEW bnrs are still pretty much unchartered territory. There isnt any data out at all on these. How can the manufacturer expect a person to make a purchase without thist have an data out at all. One thing that I always questioned was does the cost / value work when compared to a single. In all honsty i dont think so. Here is why : Stock twins can get you 350-365 pretty easily on a ported motor. The old bnrs got you 375-385 with one guy making 400rwhp. So thats a gain of ~ 20 rwhp with a cost of $2300. Now compare to a single...$3500 cost with power potential of 500 rwhp but most guys making in the 400s. I am a missign soemthing here? Why are u guys going upgraded twins? Enlighten me.

Yeah, I would love to see more data on these. Other than that, I guess that if your twins die and you want to keep your current set-up (or emissions), then these seem to be a very nice upgrade. I think that's where their is a huge market for these turbos.

Hey Matt,

Allow me to enlighten you :D

As I'm sure you know, peak rwhp isn't everything. A fat powerband and wide torque curve count for alot as well. If you are trying to compare stockers to the BNRs, you definitely haven't experienced them back-to-back. You're welcome to stop by my house in NJ.....my dad has stock seq twins on his R1, so the comparison you are looking for lies in my garage :).

The 'sleeper' effect, whether for the street or for competition use. "gee, those look like stock twins, sure, I'll race you for $500" or "Ok, you passed visual tech for this endurance/road race/autocross event." Believe it or not, I talked to many customers at the shop from other countries looking to get a performance advantage in sanctioned spec racing.

They can still be run sequentially, from the standpoint of emissions.

Personally, I don't want to screw with a different dp/wg/bov/wg dump/filter/oil feed/oil return. I like the fact that the BNRs bolt right up. Oil and water cooling is a plus, also.

Also, there is some data. I posted my low boost dyno #s........as per Chris at RP, I would have made ~355 rwhp at 12 psi if I dynoed later in the day once it cooled off (august texas heat). To give you a real idea of their performance potential, I ran the 40 to 140 mph sprint at 14 seconds flat repeatedly with the old style BNRs on pump gas. Go out and log a stock twin car and let me know what you get ;)

take it easy man,
Rich

good points....i still would like to see some hard data first my man. I need more power then the 340 rwhp @ 14psi that i am currently making on the stockers. When are you going to post up some 17-18psi dyno plots?
Also dont you think that Bnr should have done some dyno testing as part of their R and D, not to mention as a part of their marketing for these. I just dont get how you can develop a new product thats costs 2300 and not have any hard data to support it. Its not like BnR is new to this game either....i didnt see any data from the first sets either. I guess its simply cavet emptor and that in my mind sucks. I want to buy these but I wont lay done the cash until i see dyno sheets and i would guess many other share a similar view. I would be happy with close to 400rwhp @ 17-18 psi on stock ports. That in my mind would jusitfy the 2300 cost.

I'll be posting my dyno sheet everywhere as soon as I get tuned. I'm only going for 15psi though but I should be knocking door of 400hp. (I don't have stock ports) My break-in is all but finished, I just got to get Steve back out here to wake my car up!

All I can say is these BNR's are SWEET and well worth the money!

did u ask brian about what kind of rwhp can be expected? did he test these at all? and why onyl go for 15psi...do u have fuel mods? these turbos are designed for more boost!!!

also goodfellas...why did u only run low boost for dyno...i am curious.

I'm probably looking at replacing my stock twins within the next year or two. Would you elaborate a little on this? How extensive are the modifications?

With all of my engine and manifold porting, Bryan expects me to max out at about 420 rwhp at 20 psi, roughly. He tells me that the turbine manifold will end up being the restriction. You are correct, these turbos are designed for 17 to 19 psi all day.

Low boost.....I was making a crosscountry trip from TX to NJ the next day, and didnt feel like pushing the envelope. Plus, it was a 100 degree day, and the car had been on the dyno for base tuning for like 3 hours---heatsoaked like a mofo and high boost don't mix.

Rich

Oh, also......you are only in CT, once there is clear weather we should meet up halfway and you can see these bad boys up close and personal :).

Bryan takes care of it all for you, you just have to send him your y pipe in addition to the twin turbo assy. No problem at all. You get them back and they bolt right up.

Rich

Who does??? You cant get dyno sheets from Greddy or Garret, ect on thier turbo kits. They might give you some off the wall max based on compressor map flow sheets, ect. they are arent rotary spacific and they dont tell you anything about powerband, ect. The only reason we know what other turbos make is because of customers that have purchased them and dynoed them. The same will happen with these BNR's, he's been selling tons of them its just that no one really has thier car finished and bug free. Well a few people do but they are waiting on tuning.

Bryan knows what these turbos and compressor wheels are capable of because he has built this similar turbo setup for other cars. The restriction will be the exhaust manifold not the turbos, they will definatly max the exhaust manifold out. Also....stay tuned sometime around mid year of '05 because there MIGHT be some upgraded goodies that can be purchased for the stage 3's to really get them making power (cough exh manifold caugh caugh). But you didnt hear that from me (hear what? I didnt say anything). Yes, I've been begging and pleading for about a year for this and I think its fixing to happen pretty soon.

Huh? what might happen, I have no idea what your talking about. lol


Stephen

Stephen, IT'S ABOUT TIME lol. I remember I talked to you about this like 8 months ago, and I talked to Rich about it a few months back, too. You're *def* gonna run into restriction from the exhaust manifold well before you max out the flow of the stock twins. The stock twins can flow a lot, as evidenced by the similarly sized Supra twins, yet their manifold and runners are designed so much better, that they have less turbulence and restriction, and thus are capable of producing so much more power.

I'm pretty confident you can make 450 to the wheels w/ an upgraded/hi-flow exhaust manifold on the BNRs. I really think it's doable. I just think it's a shame that it's taken practically 11 years for someone to make a hi-flow exhaust manifold...

I know RE just came up w/ a design a few months ago, but they haven't released it yet, since they kept on having problems w/ it cracking I believe.

More than just the power, I would like to see the reliability issues solved with these turbos.

Stephen and Rich, I know that Bryan has treated you guys right and you have loved your modded turbos, but EVERY single BNR set I've seen in person (five, I think) has either had horrible oil leaks (not restrictor pill related) or other problems.

And I KNOW other forum members have had issues with the BNRs as well. The reliability is the important factor to me, not whether the new ones can make 15 more rwhp.....

Hellooooo Tyler :)

No smoke, no drips. You are thinking of the old style BNRs, which were rebuilds and upgrades. These are brand new turbos upgrades and no rebuilding at all, thus no more problems.

And 15 rwhp is a bunch of poop......these new ones are torquier and have the potential to trap 125 mph on pump gas, while my stockers topped out around 112 mph. 13 mph increase is a hell of of a lot more than 15 at the wheels ;)

Rich

what other mods are needed to run the bnr stage 3 twins? fuel ecu ect?

No leaks, drips, or otherwise for me either. All I'm waiting on is tuning, my breakin is all but finished.
To answer the question on page 2, I'm only shooting for 15psi because that was my goal for this set up. I wanted a real nice streetable car that I could enjoy without pushing too much boost. I asked Bryan for a good reliable engine and turbo set up that would produce at least 350hp @ 15psi with all my other mods. After talking, we decided on the stage 3's. Now that my car is built, Bryan and I both are sure we passed my goal! I don't think anyone would be disappointed with these turbos.

I think that's a very wise decision on your part. 350 and 15 psi are #s that should keep the car running well with no problems for a long time.

If you kept the boost down you could prolly run them on an otherwise stock car.......but what's the fun in that :)? You will definitely need porting, fuel, intercooler, ecu, clutch, etc to take full advantage of their capabilities.

whats the most rwhp anyone has pulled out of them? at what psi?
they are cheaper then 99 spec twins and from what little i have read i think they are alot better and more reliable im just not sure if i want to spend the kind of money to go single or stay twin

thansk for the invite and that sounds like a great idea. i would love to race u even. However i am putting the car away on saturday. If you can meet saturday morn that would be cool, if not spring time would be the other alternative.

does BNR have a web site? if so what is it?

Hey Rich, the new turbos sound more like it...:)

Oh, and my 15 rwhp comment was addressing the differences between the "old" BNR Stage 3 and the "new" Stage 3s. I know the Stage 3s are a significant upgrade over the stockers. Since my turbos are getting close to being tossed in the scrap pile, I need to start looking for options -- preferably smog-stealthy options like the BNRs....

What mods are required to the y-pipe? Compatible with the Efini?

He takes the y-pipe and extends it to make it fit with the longer set-up. Where the two pieces are put together, he cuts and welds in a spacer. I think you just send him yours when you order a set.

Sorry to crash the party but in my last 7, an '89, I had a BNR Stage 2 with all the bells and whistles. After driving with a BNR built turbo, I have nothing but praise for his turbos. It was built for a nice mid-range for autocross and daily driving duties and never gave me any issues. Leaking? Not a drop. He does good work no matter the turbo.

Find out how those people had thier crank case vent set up. I've talked to a few people that had smoking issues with the old ones and they all ended up being fixed by seting up the crank case differently. Basically, instead of running it to the uim with a one way valve just run a hose (or two) from those oil filler neck nipples down to the intake (before the turbo). That way the intake is constantly sucking on the crank case and it stays in vacume so that the oil can drain out of the turbos. Actually any dynamic seal turbo could run into this problem of needing better crank case vent. I've seen some brand spanking new dynamic seal Garrett single turbos that smoked like crazy and I fixed it in 5 minutes by redoing the crank case vent. I didnt have this problem with my old stage 3's and the people I know that had thier crank case like mine didnt either.

If you know anyone with smoking issues (no matter what turbo's) tell them to try rerouting thier crank case before doing anything drastic. It only takes about 5 minutes to do.

Also, if rerouting solves the problem you might want to add a catch can so that any junk that might come from the oil filler neck gets caught in the can and not into the intake.

I've heard of some 13B race cars that acutally had to run two -8 lines from the oil neck to the intake to vent the crank case enough. I think the larger the ports the harder it becomes to vent the crank case.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there since it might help your friends.

Stephen

Um, Stephen, the crank case is vented to the intake before the turbos. One of the nipples on the plastic primary inlet elbow should go to the filler neck unless it has been modified.

There are 2 nipples on the oil filler neck. One goes to a hard line that goes to the prim turbo inlet (as you describe) and one goes to the uim with the pcv valve in-line (as spo describes).

Rich

unless its a 95 where the pcv valve has been eliminated.
I just ordered my Stage IIIs and bryan should be shipping them back tommorow. I was going to go with an upgraded fuel pump and upgrade the secondarys to 1300cc. Am I going to need more or is this fine?
I have not ported anything yet.

Ditch the 1300s. While it may not be 100% established, people have reported 1300cc injectors sticking, and someone not too long ago posted how he lost his engine due to the 1300cc injector sticking, AND he had the KDR anti-det mod at the time. That's a risk I just wouldn't wanna sit w/. Besides, you'll leave yourself more flexibility for whatever future plans may arise w/ 1600s. That's my opinion.

leave the primaries alone?

Some guys use the stock 500s, some guys run 800 primaries. I think 500 pri and 1600 sec is more than enough, unless you ever plan on running some incredibly HUGE single...BUT, I'm sure someone who's much more knowledgeable (Stephen, Rich, etc) can provide you w/ something more concrete.