Blue smoke on startup from brand new engine
We get lots of blue smoke on startup from my brand new engine. Once the car is warmed up or driven around there is no blue smoke. Can this be OMP related? I don't know how it works exactly so if there are any videos or other links you can recommend I'd like to look at it. Something may be connected wrong and engine getting too much oil at first. Any ideas on what may be the reason or what to check?
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Are you talking about the very first start up? If so than it's normal to get a ton of smoke, as that's everything used during assembly burning off.
Additional lubrication during the break-in process isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm just starting to break my new engine in as well and I'm running 2-3oz/gal of premix in the tank. Mine also smokes like a shisha bar when cold, but it goes away once temps rise. It's better to be over-lubed than under-lubed, ESPECIALLY during break-in. |
Sounds normal to me for the first start up.
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To be clear, not the very first start up after the build, each cold start up we get lots of blue smoke.
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Are you premixing or anything of the sort?
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I've seen it on a lot of perfectly healthy broken-in engines with no cats. I wouldn't automatically be worried.
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A video would be helpful :)
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What are the details of the engine? Was was reused and what was replaced?
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Originally Posted by Reno_NVFD
(Post 11409882)
What are the details of the engine? Was was reused and what was replaced?
Originally Posted by ALPSTA
(Post 11409500)
We get lots of blue smoke on startup from my brand new engine. Once the car is warmed up or driven around there is no blue smoke. Can this be OMP related? I don't know how it works exactly so if there are any videos or other links you can recommend I'd like to look at it. Something may be connected wrong and engine getting too much oil at first. Any ideas on what may be the reason or what to check?
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brand new? or brand new rebuilt?
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Originally Posted by Tem120
(Post 11409814)
Are you premixing or anything of the sort?
Originally Posted by arghx
(Post 11409821)
I've seen it on a lot of perfectly healthy broken-in engines with no cats. I wouldn't automatically be worried.
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
(Post 11409842)
A video would be helpful :)
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...-989042/page4/
Originally Posted by Reno_NVFD
(Post 11409882)
What are the details of the engine? Was was reused and what was replaced?
Originally Posted by RENESISFD
(Post 11409892)
I think the engine is brand new.
Since blue smoke is not permanent, my mechanic is suspecting the OMP system but he doesn't know how the system actually works so wants some information on that to check if during re-install there was something wrong like with new lines or breathing nozzles or the actual unit etc. Obviously the engine is getting a lot of oil for some reason. |
Ok, here is a video, it's not very clear because my friend took it with his iphone but you can see the smoke:
RX7 Idle 2 Video by ALPSTA | Photobucket |
I thought you said it was smoking? :lol:
You're just being overcautious since you just spent a bunch of money. It's absolutely nothing to worry about. The engine is fine. What turbo (s)? New or used? It could be a turbo pushing a little oil but even that looks minimal. I wouldn't worry about anything until you put some actual drive miles on it and see if it clears up. |
Your engine is more then fine and that video is hilarious, I pull great compression with my motor and when I start it up cold it's like a James Bond smoke screen. Most RX-7's burn oil on start up after they've had the thermal pellet mod done, which nearly everyone does after rebuilding a motor. As long as the oil smoke doesn't persist after it's completely warm then I wouldn;t worry about it.
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Guys, I posted the wrong video, sorry :blush:
That video was after the car is warmed up. And the one below is the cold start. As you can see there's plenty of blue smoke. And the engine is brand new from Japan so I don't think it has the thermal pellet mod from factory. RX7 Idle 3 Video by ALPSTA | Photobucket The turbo is brand new GTX35R. |
Looks pretty normal for cold start with emissions removed. Probably a little overly rich while cold, that can be adjusted with water temp corrections. Another thing to remember is that there is always a lot of condensation in a wide open exhaust system at start up.
It does not look like an oil injector issue. Did you install an oil restrictor on the turbo? If it is not restricted it can cause excess pressure at the CHRA which will cause smoking. |
Yeah, yours isn't smoking too bad at all.
For comparison, here's mine (new Mazda engine (not a reman) rebuilt with a streetport and stronger apex seals) smoking while cold. |
looks fine to me also, a little leakdown in the engine through the new plates and oil seals which should get better with time. add in the grey smoke which is too much fuel which will make the other smoke seem worse than it is.
if it persisted through warmup then you should be concerned. |
Here is a short drive video, as you can see the blue smoke is there for quite some time. Is this normal? So far all the comments have been comforting. I am just hoping nothing has been damaged during, install or first minor ecu tune or first start up.
RX7 Short Drive Video by ALPSTA | Photobucket . |
Originally Posted by Banzai-Racing
(Post 11411051)
Looks pretty normal for cold start with emissions removed. Probably a little overly rich while cold, that can be adjusted with water temp corrections. Another thing to remember is that there is always a lot of condensation in a wide open exhaust system at start up.
It does not look like an oil injector issue. Did you install an oil restrictor on the turbo? If it is not restricted it can cause excess pressure at the CHRA which will cause smoking.
Originally Posted by fendamonky
(Post 11411087)
Yeah, yours isn't smoking too bad at all.
For comparison, here's mine (new Mazda engine (not a reman) rebuilt with a streetport and stronger apex seals) smoking while cold.
Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution
(Post 11411224)
looks fine to me also, a little leakdown in the engine through the new plates and oil seals which should get better with time. add in the grey smoke which is too much fuel which will make the other smoke seem worse than it is.
if it persisted through warmup then you should be concerned. |
keep in mind the exhaust, turbo and even engine will all be oil soaked and that will collect in the exhaust and take some time to burn off. if it keeps on after several hours of run time then i would probably start looking into crankcase ventilation and your turbo oil restrictor.
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Originally Posted by rotaryevolution
(Post 11411567)
keep in mind the exhaust, turbo and even engine will all be oil soaked and that will collect in the exhaust and take some time to burn off. If it keeps on after several hours of run time then i would probably start looking into crankcase ventilation and your turbo oil restrictor.
+1 |
it's better to be over-lubed than under-lubed, especially during break-in. |
Originally Posted by SWAT81
(Post 11411608)
twss...
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Thanks for the replies guys, I'm relieved but I will still keep an eye on it after the 3k break-in miles. I hope it's not there by then.
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Some comments from my mechanic for the replies above. This is both his and my first time dealing with a rotary so please take it easy :)
- The smoke is definitely not rich mixture smoke, it's blue and has plenty of oil smell. - Someone commented that it doesn't look like an OMP problem, is there a way for us to check this and make sure? - We have checked the oil restrictor but what is crankcase ventilation and how can we check this? - As for comments about the smoke getting better over time, how long or how many miles would it take? It has been like this for days, each start-up but the car hasn't seen many miles. |
Originally Posted by ALPSTA
(Post 11417221)
Some comments from my mechanic for the replies above. This is both his and my first time dealing with a rotary so please take it easy :)
- The smoke is definitely not rich mixture smoke, it's blue and has plenty of oil smell. - Someone commented that it doesn't look like an OMP problem, is there a way for us to check this and make sure? - We have checked the oil restrictor but what is crankcase ventilation and how can we check this? - As for comments about the smoke getting better over time, how long or how many miles would it take? It has been like this for days, each start-up but the car hasn't seen many miles. ( defeats the check balls for a period after shut down and this may drain a portion of the lines down into the chamber ) crankcase ventilation is VERY important to prevent smoking,, however doesnt usually present as an issue on cold start,, but when hot and when coming off throttle ( the crankcase should be run at a slightly negative pressure with draw through ventilation.. factory method is complicated two way system .. at hi and low loads it changes direction into the engine either via purge valve or via the aircleaner ) blocking the vent lines will make it backpressure,, and prevent oil draining out of the rotors and out of the turbo ( forcing it instead past seals ) easy test is to take the seal from under the filler cap and replace cap lightly ( this isnt a vacuum but is being sure no pressure will build ) if this slows the issue then you need to revise the ventilation system a big hp /boost engine will benefit from larger lines to and from catch can .. to aircleaner vacuum FD engine with single has a convenient drain point ( from ex rear turbo ) to plumb back a catch can drain if the engine was built ( not a crate engine ) then there remains possibility for placing the direction oil control ring springs on the wrong faces of each rotor.. these are specific for front or rear side of each rotor... get it wrong,, and the chromes will spin withing the rotor against the drag on the plate and thus will chew up the oil control rubbers.. |
Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 11431530)
OMP system can do this is you have the nipples hooked up to engine vacuum and not filtered / port vacuum
( defeats the check balls for a period after shut down and this may drain a portion of the lines down into the chamber ) crankcase ventilation is VERY important to prevent smoking,, however doesnt usually present as an issue on cold start,, but when hot and when coming off throttle ( the crankcase should be run at a slightly negative pressure with draw through ventilation.. factory method is complicated two way system .. at hi and low loads it changes direction into the engine either via purge valve or via the aircleaner ) blocking the vent lines will make it backpressure,, and prevent oil draining out of the rotors and out of the turbo ( forcing it instead past seals ) easy test is to take the seal from under the filler cap and replace cap lightly ( this isnt a vacuum but is being sure no pressure will build ) if this slows the issue then you need to revise the ventilation system a big hp /boost engine will benefit from larger lines to and from catch can .. to aircleaner vacuum FD engine with single has a convenient drain point ( from ex rear turbo ) to plumb back a catch can drain if the engine was built ( not a crate engine ) then there remains possibility for placing the direction oil control ring springs on the wrong faces of each rotor.. these are specific for front or rear side of each rotor... get it wrong,, and the chromes will spin withing the rotor against the drag on the plate and thus will chew up the oil control rubbers.. |
What we have done today is, we removed the turbo to check for excess oil in the turbo but found none. We also checked the ports and no excess oil there either. We tried to check for oil on the apex seals and turn the rotors etc. and nothing out of ordinary.
We then started the engine with the turbo and manifold disconnected (as seen in the video below) to see if there was blue smoke coming out but no evidence of blue smoke there either. However once we connected the exhaust system back on there was blue smoke (once started to rev the engine). Currently we are thinking there may be some build up inside the old HKS muffler (from previous owner) :scratch: Here is the video of the engine running with the turbo and the manifold removed: Idle Without Turbo And Manifold Video by ALPSTA | Photobucket As you can see no blue smoke, just sexy blue flames :) |
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