so you dont think that sloted would bringing the tires to the braking threshold faster then drilled one??...as the sloted rotor is heavier weight and has more surface area in contact with the pad...

For someone who is a track beginner, the BBK has only a few real benefits: The seals can take higher temperatures, the pad thickness is obviously slightly thicker, plus you get a larger rotor size/thickness. Those are the only 3 things that will be felt from the brake pedal directly and for someone who is a beginner that is all that really matters. I think starting off with crappy tires, decent brakes with good modulation instead of the high bite stuff, and the bare minimum to keep the car reliable is all a "track" car needs. Focus on seat time instead of buying shit for the car.

50 percent of good brakes are good tires. Drilled rotors are popular because of the way they react with pad material, it gives a really good initial bite and decent mid-range. Their heat resistance is poor, and not really used in racing unless the racing category regulates rotor use. It really depends on the TYPE of slot too. AP racing J hooks react differently than Brembo Curved vane, and those react different than Endless E-Slit rotors. Too many variables to give a blanket statement like that as of what I have seen.

I think some people should do a little more research on brakes before offering up too many comments:

http://www.scirocco.org/faq/brakes/p...n/pfpage1.html

Again, if the brakes are working properly (i.e. bringing the car to the braking threshold), there is nothing else they can do. It's all up to the tires (i.e. you want shorter braking distances, get stickier tires not a BBK). The stock brakes are certainly capable of doing that. However, they aren't necessarily capable of doing that for 30-40 minutes straight on a road course. Once you address the heat, it's all up to the tires.

The "bite" is more about the pad friction coefficient and the position the caliper is to the rotor radius rather than whether the rotor has holes or slots.

The type of slots do make a difference in the level of "bite". It also has to do with piston diameters, and a lot of other things as well. The "bite", "mid-range" and "release" are just what drivers say to describe the brake feel to the best of their knowledge. Sometimes those comments can help improve a brake setup, but other times driver just has to adjust. The stock brake calipers, if equipped with the right disks, pads and fluid can go a whole 12 hour endurance race (when the Rx7s raced at Bathurst in 93, 94, and 95 the OEM calipers were used). This also depends on the type of circuit, the amount of ducts allowed, and the temperatures seen.

then use the 2500 mod budget on a second driver school

You are still directly dependent on the friction of the pad material. You can increase the force (i.e. the torque I spoke about above), but the car is still only going to slow down as fast as the tires will allow.

http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/p...on/default.htm

The force of kinetic friction doesn't change when you add weight (or more force in this case). The force of kinetic friction does change when the material changes (i.e. the pad material).

No dispute there. I completely agree which is why I was saying BBK's are not necessarily a required upgrade. However, it does at some point become an easier path for most than getting creative with pad materials, ducting, etc.

+1

A couple comments and thoughts here.

1) In an FD, if you are near stock power levels and aren't running R-comps, really aggressive track pads aren't always necessary. I ran for a few seasons (when I first started out) on Hawk HP+ and had no problem with pad fade.

2) Probably as, if not more, important is fresh brake fluid. I've seen more problems with people boiling fluid than pad fade (at least with anything better than a stock street pad).

3) I've seen too many cracks (and in some cases complete structural failure) with drilled brake rotors. No thank you. At least not until we start looking at some fairly advanced materials, and I don't think that anyone here is talking about ceramics when they discuss "drilled rotors";

4) I would strongly look at implementing proper brake ducting before considering the BBK. The additional cooling may be all you really need.

Just my opinions.

-bill "can never stay out of a brake discussion" rankin

invest that money at a professional driving school like skip barber, youll enjoy your car more when you know how to drive it correctly.

That is some really good advice. I was actually thinking of doing the same! Amen brother :bowdown: FWIW, a few years ago I was at Buttonwillow and one of the miatas there was driven by a track instructor... he was all over the "supercars" in the corners, I thought it was hilarious. I think the supercar drivers were really upset that this guy could hang with them thru the corners... of course on the straights it's a different story - but at the next corner, guess what? Miata is all over their ass again! Was great to watch, that guy could drive!

EDIT: supercar for that day = slxxx amg coupe, 997 porsche 911 turbo (probably 2005+ year), c5 vette z06

Was that when the Turbo miata lapped the 911 turbo hahaha?

I'd say brake ducting, and aggressive pads would be a good start!