Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much it costs to have a single turbo RX7 running a Power FC?Just an estimate.

 

$300.00 Street Tune by Steve Kan of Gotham Racing. Stock twins tho...

Worth every pennies...Steve even bought me lunch

 

Sounds about Right, anywhere between $300-$350 for the tuner, and then street time, or dyno time... Dyno Time can be as little as $75 / hr. for group buy or as much as $200 / hr. at a fancy place... with a reputation....

Some places with in-house tuners charge by the hour for tuner and dyno, and then a hookup fee to hook the car up to a dyno... (It's not a discount )

 

Has anyonehad their car tuned at Ground Zero in Portland?How much do they charge?

 

wont be less then $200

 

If you have a PFC, for the price of a 1.5 tuning sessions you can by a WBO2 and datalogit. Start with a good base map such as Chuck's and adjust from there. There are plenty of books and information available on the forum to learn.

 

add one laptop to that equation. . .

 

Tuning is surprisingly easy. Like fritts said, start with a tried and true timing map like Chuck's, then just adjust fuel (and timing if sequential) accordingly. There's a lot of tuning info out there.

Either way, a WB and a Datalogit should be in every moderate to heavily modified FD for a lot of reasons, not just for tuning.

 

Don't you Believe it !!!! In theory it's childs play, just look at all those manuals (I can get you some ISBN numbers off amazon) that cover tuning on piston engines, and not a single one on Rotaries.

I tried like hell to learn, I felt I'm technically inclined, I've built my own PC's since I've been a teenager... I worked on my own car, I know it mechanically in-side and out... I learned Electronics in HS (3 yr course) I can figure this out... !!!

BS !

It's a learned craft, when I was with Steve Kahn, during a tuning session, he said "oh **** !", and let off on the gas, I ghasped and siad what ??? He said "Did you hear that knocking ???"
I said No!?

And he said it was faint, but it started. 1/4 of a second more and the motor might have let go...

And Steve's the one sitting in the dyno, without earcups listening to 100+db's of un-muffled rotaries, week in and week out... He's also the one that will get people 5-10 more RWHP out of an previously "Expert Tuned Map" without sacrificing safety.... and usually adds a better margin to boot....

If you think you know what you're doing with High HP Turbo Charged rotaries after reading a book, or listening to some dude talk about how it's "thoretically done" you're in for a $4000 suprise....

P.S. And I tried making my own maps (under vaccuum), and all I ever did is make it more irratic/unpredictable ... in certain spots... and I had two different EMS systems, and a wideband for both....

 

Maybe Bcrosby should just stay away from tuning that doesn't mean everyone has had the same problems. There is no magic in tuning. Yes, experience is good though so learn from members like Chuck that have spent the time to post and write down their tuning notes and experiences. Having a good base point is also important, it gives you a safe start with timing and fuel. Along with patience and a willingness to learn I don't see much else that's needed, well maybe a logical thought process.

I am sure there are no books on tuning rotaries in particular but at least you can learn and understand about the main issues with tuning. Piston engines and rotaries still have many of the same properties.

I have had no problems tuning my map. I'm running 15 psi non-sequential. My part throttle is smooth compared to other cars I have been in. I tune very lean at cruise 15-16's. If I would have blown my engine I would have done it already with the 100+ WOT runs I have done over the summer.

Just because you can't tune does not mean others beyond Steve can't tune their own cars either. I also don't need that last 10-20 hp that his tune could give me. Plus I like knowing I did it myself.

There are plenty of people on this forum that tune their own and enough information to understand how to do it. Also maybe you should take a look at some shops so called tuned maps. You would be amazed at how little they understand of things like timing split. Not to mention you would be lucky if they did any part throttle tuning. Which I consider much harder than WOT tuning.

 

dcrosby has raised the "disclaimer" portion that this thread really did need. it is hard to get a grasp on if youve never done anything like this before. the real problem with a beginner is learning the software enough to be able to analyze the datalog. it takes a lot of tinkering. . . and asking around. . . and tinkering. . . and looking at others maps. . . and tinkering. i used to "build" maps for myself just to pass the time. . . each time trying different approaches. it takes a while. . . and i made some bombs for sure. . . but just play with the software and see what you can come up with. the tuning aid in the single turbo section will help you A LOT. get comfortable with tuning the vaccum sections first and THEN try your hand at moving into the transition point. thats pretty much the tricky area. thats the make or break area. hehe.

good luck. . .

just to add. . . its still scary making WOT runs on a map that is being tested. . . the key is to keep it very safe in the beginning. . . and once you have more confidence, start going for the gusto.

 

Tuning is definitely not something that is rocket science. You can easily tune your own car if you have the right tools (datalogit, wideband, egt gauge)

I will say that there are some things the common person might not know how to change that a tuner might (remap your p-rows, adjust enrichment, etc etc)

But to be honest, the PowerFC comes with decent enough settings that the average tuned car doesn't really need to touch any of that. Fuel and timing changes are easy, so long as you understand how split works.

One good week of reading about tuning on this forum and I'm sure anyone could easily tune their own vehicle given the right tools.

 

I do my own tuning...wideband, and laptop. Soon to be added, EGT's and logged fuel pressure.

ramp up the rpms slowly...pull to 3.5k, then 4.5, etc...making sure things are okay...don't run it up to 8k wondering where you'll need to add fuel.

 

Sometimes I wonder if certain people get down on others that tune it themselves to justify the money they spent on having someone else do their tuning. By the way I believe a WBO2 is something everyone with a moderately tuned 7 should have in the car even if they are not doing their own tuning.

 

very true, fritts. . . changing weather or climates during a trip will almost always show some different effect on your tune. even if the car is tuned by mr. pro mcproerson, the weather is always a factor. . .

 

I agree

I have my wideband permanently mounted in the car and it runs at all times.

 

best mod I've put on...can't believe I didn't spend that money years ago.

 

Which wideband would you suggest to use?And where is the best place to buy the datalogic?

 

Rotary Performance has the Datalogits

I now have two LC-1's from Innovate Motorsports. I would suggest them or the Techedge series of widebands. From what I have seen all of the others have a bit of a lag time in their readings.

 

So to tune it myself I need to buy the datalogic($350) an air/fuel ratio meter(350) and a Windows compatable laptop(which I also don't have).At this point I would be over $1000 in just the products needed to be able to do it myself!Am I missing something here or is it much cheaper to have it tuned by a professional, not to mention more reliable, than to do it myself?I really would like to be able to do it myself because everthing else I have done myself(remove and install a new engine in a 87 RX7 and convert a 93 to a single turbo).I really appreciate the help so far, but I really just wan't to get the car tuned one way or the other for the least amount of money.

 

Well LC-1's are 200. You can make a cheap LCD gauge out of a panel voltmeter on Ebay for it.

A cheap laptop should cost around 200. Then a datalogit is going to be around 350. So yeah it cost much but you should have a WBO2 of some sort anyway for safety. So look at it as 550. These cars aren't cheap.

Also a tune is good for one setup. I have changed my setup multiple times and at 300 a pop I already paid for my equipment.

 

Lot's of great ideas on this thread on pro's & con's of tuning.

I say go for it if you have the desire and aptitude to do your own tune, plus the capable bank account to pay for the possible consequences. If you have your mod's in a row and are not doing more monkeying with mods and dont have the desire, aptitude or the bank account; then go the tuner route.

 

The point I was trying to get across initially was that with the right equipment and time, there is enough information out there on this forum as well as other sites to learn the fundementals to tuning. No one's claiming to be Steve Kan just because they own a Datalogit. He is a pro tuner- no doubt. Be there are other options....

-Scott

 

Your point of view is absolutely true and I hope you did not interpret my post as a shot across your bow.

Steve Kan seems to come up a lot when it comes to tuners, I wonder how many engines he's blown before he got to have a great reputation that he now enjoys

Steve, you out there. Come on and tell us.

 

Personally, I think you'd be an idiot to try to tune a single turbo car yourself if you have zero experience tuning. Pay Kan or Cain the $350-400 to have it done right the first time. Over time, you can pick up the wideband o2, datalogit, and laptop, and then you can fine tune idle, cruise, and weather correction.

If you are going to do it yourself, start with a GOOD KNOWN map for a similarly modded car. And proceed very slowly and patiently, starting with idle and cruise, before moving up into boost areas.