Who else appreciates a stock FD?
 

I am on my 6th FD now and this one is pretty much stock and I'm really enjoying it so far. Only mods are Koyo radiator, JDM downpipe and Racing Beat dual tip exhaust.

I flew up to Detroit to pick it up and drove it 550 miles back to Nashville. A few days later, I drove it to Jacksonville for a family vacation, then to Orlando for their 7’s day event, then up to Chatsworth, GA for a 7’s day event there. In total I put around 2000 miles on the car in the past 10 days.

The weather has been super-hot and I was stuck in traffic a few times. AC kept me cool, stero kept me entertained and I wasn’t too worried about the car overheating, although I was nervous a few times.

I wasn’t too worried about scrapping the car as I was going through interstate construction or pulling in and out of gas stations.

Does anyone else appreciate a stock car as much as I do?

At Carter Lake Damn in Chatsworth, GA

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7’s day event in Chatsworth

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7’s day event in Orlando

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I absolutely LOVE the look of a stock FD. Unfortunately i've never had the chance to fully experience one in person other than just looking, mine came pretty modified.

^ just noticed you are from Jacksonville. Wished I knew and tried to sync up with you over the 4th of July week.

That would have been awesome! I was out and about yesterday with some of my old friends from the S2000 group. Without a/c I wasn't gonna make the trip to orlando or especially miami for 7's day. If you're in the area again, feel free to hit me up.

I think you were about the only car more stock than mine. I had the black FD. I only have Racing beats intake, downpipe, catback with the dual tips also and ohlins coils. rest was cosmetic items. I do enjoy a more stock car as well, at least, at the moment.

I moved to New Jersey, but I kept my FD down in jax at my parent's place. When I come down again we should cruise and if you want to drive you can take mine around. Pretty stock, the only non stock items apexi intakes, downpipe, and apexi exhuast. Mine is the faded montego blue, so still in the ugly stage haha. :D

I do ... so much so that I have a few stockers or stock cars with some reliability mods. My wife likes them too ... AC/Radio/No stink ...

Went to 7s day events here in the NYC/NJ area. Weather was nice but got up to 90. I was glad to have the AC (super cold r12 nonetheless).

^ nice.

Thoughts on bridge ported cars? They sound cool but after 5 mins of brapping, I'm like man that's annoying.

The vast majority of rx-7 owners still bone up their cars, and that's why stock and OEM++ examples bring such a premium. The rx-7 was perfectly aesthetic from the factory, and it turns out the vast majority of us are not smarter than Mazda Engineers.

Stock FDs are beautiful and reliable when well driven and well maintained. Can't say that about most modified examples.

Mine being about as far from stock as possible is what made me appreciate the stock FD.

Skeese

Yep

Stock FDs have been my daily drivers for 20 years :)

Great cars!!!!

Agree 100%! I've been saying for years that if you haven't experienced a stock FD you've missed how special they were straight from the factory. Not perfect, but damned good! And certainly agree that few of us were/are smarter than the Mazda engineers :o)

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...0525704e05.jpg

I agree, but I want to upgrade my car to stock Series 8 spec (1999-2002) in some places.

me! most fun one i've driven was 100% stock except the downpipe. you could actually drive it fairly hard without the felony speeding ticket.... plus its quiet, ac works, etc.

loud and slow is easy...

I went on a 500 miles road trip to break in the new motor and go to car shows when I bought mine stock 8 years ago, I think I miss the quiet exhaust the most because I can actually have a conversation :lol: Definitely like the current power level over stock tho.

Mixed feelings
 

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...fec2ca1f54.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...06a17ca3cc.jpg
I was also there at Ace Cafe in Orlando. My car is the red one. In 1998 when I purchased my car it was bone stock and a daily driver. Bone stock is was a joy to drive and well engineered but I wanted more performance. When the twins died the a single pte 6262 divided turbo was added with a re vmount, full exhaust and ohlins suspension. Although I do miss the no smell and quieter car but I do enjoy the performance of my upgrades. With that said I would not change anything I have done and I am happy but would love to have an additional rx7 with upgraded twins and reliability mods only.

damn Johnny. Looks like the car is doing well. Drive it and enjoy it.

I've said forever that 90% of FD owners in the last 10 years have never experienced a properly functioning factory sequential FD and have no clue how much they are sacrificing by going single. I love big power like most, but hated nearly every single turbo FD I drove until the EFRs came out. The only downside is the stock sequential setup is hard on the entire engine bay and requires a lot of love and dedication once the car gets some miles on it.

best part about that car Johnny is driving... normal battery. Let it sit for a month in the dead of winter and it will start right up, no tender required. Let the fan aftercooling control module run on shutdown, no battery draining issues.

I definitely agree. Keep the sequentials, keep the rats nest working properly and keep the car looking stock. Reliability mods are one thing, but there's no need to do anything to the outside of the car that's universally known as the most beautiful Japanese car ever built.
PFC, down pipe, radiator, AST, fuck yes. Flares, wings, carbon fiber door panels, frog eye headlights, no thanks.

Not to mention we've all seen enough Christy's and Mecum auctions to know which cars hold their value best.

Nice, I have a Greddy titanium exhaust, SMIC and PFC and agree that a little more power is fun.

Nice, did you have to drive in the rain? If so, any issue with your windows fogging up?

Thanks man. Been driving it to work also.

I just got 99 front, wing and have 99 sides coming. Can't decide it if want to put it on the MB or CYM.

The more that I own my modified FD, the more I long for a stock example.

I bough my car three years ago and have had to replaced almost every janky ebay modification that the previous owners did. I don't think that there is one aftermarket part left on my car that I haven't had to replace. In that time I have maybe driven the car 2500km with many break downs all attributed to the previous owner's cheap mods. The most recent one left me stranded 1.5 hours from home at 3:30am, which was caused by the hack job of a wiring harness that the previous owner had converted to a single turbo harness. I love my FD when it's running well but all the issues have made me a little apprehensive of driving it. Looking back on it, I should have paid 2x the price and should have gotten a nice stock example but I wanted "racecar," which was dumb.

I'm older now, have kids, and don't have that much time to tinker on broken cars anymore. It makes me appreciate a well kept stock example that just works.


Mine's half bridge with a quiet exhaust. Just a little loud at idle and quite reasonable a cruising. I've been working a lot on tuning driveability so it's not some unruly monster when I'm sitting at a red light or cruising around.

However, even with the quiet exhaust, it get's crazy amounts of attention because everyone wants to know what that noise is. Before the bridgeport, a few people would look at the car. Now everyone turns their heads, people stop in the middle of crosswalks, and I get approached a lot at gas stations.

Fuel economy is alright. I'm still tuning the cruising cells but my fuel economy is just a tad worse than when the car was street ported (50km less a tank).

I think we all think we can get a car that needs a little TLC and make it nice but at the end of the day, it would have been better to just save a get a better car at the beginning.

You still happy with the bridgeport or would you put in a new engine with stock ports if it was given to you?

Good to see you again bro! That MB FD is mint! I'd keep it that way.
Wish the rain didnt hinder the meet... its was gonna be a great one!
See you @DGRR 2020
Steve

Stockish yes. 100% stock hell no. The SMIC heats soaks too easily and the stock DP converter really chokes power above 70MPH.

IMO the perfect FD is:

• Sequential
• CAI
• Upgraded SMIC
• RB exhaust
• Upgraded radiator
• AST delete
• Max boost set at 12 psi
• ECU

What you get is a decently fast, comfortable (quiet), rock solid car that you can beat on without a care in the world.


FYI - there is no reason for a stock FD to overheat under normal driving conditions. The reason we upgrade the radiator is because the plastic end tanks on the rad have a nasty habit of cracking.

That's exactly what I have, but with efini y-pipe, Ohlins, RZ Recaros and some BBK.

^Nice :)

Besides the 3000 (?) rpm hesitation, which is better on newer ECUs (my old '95 that Johnny bought has almost zero hesitation), you can't beat the stock ECU for liveability. And I say that as someone who has done a lot of tuning and given a lot of tuning advice, on both Rx-7's and piston powered vehicles.

Stock ECU:

1) Starts consistently under all weather
2) Doesn't overboost lean out or otherwise blow up, no matter the altitude or ambient condition (winter, heat soak in summer, etc), provided you don't over mod it.

Also Stock airbox and stock intercooler are fine for reliability, just give up some power vs aftermarket units, and the stock ECU can handle heatsoak. Stock ECU can handle mild reductions in backpressure (downpipe and catback) no problem, especially if you keep stock airbox to help maintain boost control.

3) Controls the sequential twins better than other ECUs due to gear based boost control and sequential staging (transition point is higher rpm in 1st gear), as long as you overhaul all the vacuum lines and solenoids (as I did with Johnny's car)
4) Idles much better than most aftermarket ECUs as long as you keep the main cat and underhood emissions controls (as I did with Johnny's car).
5) Has a simple on board diagnostic system (OBD 1) that throws codes when sensors fail and goes into a failsafe mode. If you lose a sensor in an aftermarket ECU, you could blow a motor.
6) Allows the convenience of the oil metering pump and won't blow the motor if it fails (no need to premix unless you really want to eke out a little more engine life).
7) Good tip in throttle response that is difficult (but certainly not impossible) to achieve with aftermarket ECU.

A lot of these can be overcome with a Power FC or better, newer/more advanced ECU, but it takes a LOT of real world tuning to get it right, and the aftermarket ECUs will never have a real OBD system or some of the advanced logic of the stock ECU (unless you go hardcore with custom code).

The main reason for aftermarket ECU is more power. You won't beat the liveability and convenience and safety of the stock ECU as long as the engine hardware is kept close to stock.

I foresee a lot of WTB threads for stock parts ....

Ha, one can convert back to stock but there is something awesome about an unmolested FD. The door panels, center console, and other plastics fits great and feels solid.

Raymond - what are your thoughts on ecus such as Pettit or M2? From what I understand, they are supposed to be just reflashed stock ecus. I had the pettit and thought it did a good job, just idled a little too rich for my likings.

Yeah, you gotta go as long as you can without removing anything. And don't touch that passenger handle!

Did you run with the air pump and ACV working like stock?

I've never driven one and have only heard general things about what's changed inside the ECU. I don't think it's a good idea to run one without the air pump and ACV, especially from an idle perspective, same as totally stock ECU. The air pump air is primarily directed into the exhaust ports, where it backflows into the intake charge air during overlap, for better combustion stability and leaner mixtures, and also to oxidize the HC and CO. Thus the stock ECU logic with the stock ECU accounts for this; I'm not sure how the Petit handles it. Based on what I've seen on old canned tunes for piston engines, somebody probably changed either an injector size value, a target AFR table or volumetric efficiency table, or some other setting in there that's kind of a sledgehammer to make the tune safer.

Remember that a 13B-REW and all the other older side intake port rotaries have the equivalent of a mild cam from the factory due to the port timing (Rx-8 is different). That leads to more recirculation of exhaust gases, which hurts combustion stability. To maintain idle, the mixture is made richer, and secondary air is applied through the air pump and ACV. On a modern piston engine, the internal EGR rates are controlled by the variable cam phasers. At warm idle (cold is different), the cams are parked to a low overlap position to eliminate the exact issue we are describing, unstable combustion due to high internal EGR rates. The older rotaries really need the secondary air to idle correctly at a stock idle speed without being rich.

My back window did fog up. Other than that it was a decent drive. My car is not oem but the drivability is pretty good. My car was done correctly by Kilo Racing with quality mods. Nothing is like oem I agree but a will built rx7 can also be a joy to drive.

Nice find. Add some wheels and coilovers, do any necessary maintenance and leave the rest alone.

The FD3S is the quintessential sports car with a timeless shape and great driving dynamics. Of the 90's sports cars (E30 M3, 964 C2, NSX), this is the one I always come back to. My first one was a stock 93 CYM purchased from the original owner back in 2000. I ended up replacing her with an Alpine White E46 M3. Since the CYM, I have owned 5 other FDs, always in Base or R1 trim.

As I have gotten older, my taste for aftermarket mods outside of exhaust and suspension have diminished. A well maintained, stock FD (not modified and brought back to stock) is a rare treat to drive. As Johnny and others have mentioned, Mazda knew what they were doing. Sure with the advancements in technology over the past 25 years, the platform can be improved based upon an owner's specific needs, but there is still much to appreciate in a stock FD.

Over the years, I have returned to the FD because they presented such a great value proposition. I also rationalized the decision by telling myself I would be saving another FD from either a life of neglect or poor modding decisions by the previous owner(s). After sorting it out, I would lose interest and move on. (A major part of the ownership experience for me is working on the car.) My keeper though has been my 95 CW Base with mods.

Now, I am after an original, completely stock, never modified CYM. The hunt is half the fun!

the M2 didn't seem to do much except change the boost, ie you'd put the thing in and the car would run exactly the same, it would just boost to 12psi instead of 10.

i have an Re Amemyia ecu in my current car, and they quite obviously remapped the whole thing, it runs so much better its kind of amazing.

ECU number 3, is the 280ps one, my friend had one running in a car and it makes a HUGE difference, car just ran better everywhere. interestingly emissions, with this ecu were within 1ppm of the Rx8

moral of the story, stock ecu's work, and 32bit stock ecu's work better

STOCK FD's
 

I have been driving my stock '93 Turing ever since I bought it new in '93. It has been a pleasure. The only real problem I ever had was when the radiator expansion bottle split and I lost coolent, overheating the engine causing the rotor housing to warp. There was a service bulletin about removing the expansion bottle, which I did while having the engine rebuilt. Never had another major problem. Oh sure, I have replaced the Tach and Speedo, and now my stereo is getting a little dodgy, But after 26 years of service you have to do a little maintenance. Then nice thing about the stock FD's is they are rapidly appreciating in value. Hagerty has the stock FD as number two on its top ten list of most desirable cars.
John

I still like the bridgeport. I've gotten the idling and cruising tuned well enough that it's smooth. It's not perfect yet but I can drive multiple hours without it tiring me out and I can sit in traffic for a long time without the car getting weird. When I put the engine in, I wanted to make the car more streetable than before. I put in a six puck sprung clutch (much easier in traffic than the unsprung clutch that was in there) and I got a Tanabe Medallion Touring exhaust. I also installed Banzai Racing's Street motor mounts.

I still have my street ported engine as a spare. The primaries are stock and the secondaries have a medium street port (pretty close to stock). I can go back at any point but probably won't.

couldn't agree more, nice to see like minded owners on here. as you get older you appreciate things for what they are and not what they could be. ......stock is best for me with a few quality mods. oem ++ all the way,

I've owned two (JDM) FDs now:

#1: Full exhaust, high flow cat, intake, and a tune for power. Otherwise stock. Ohlins suspension and then some interior stuff (roll cage, bucket seats, etc.).

#2: Totally stock except for a newly installed lightweight flywheel with new OEM suspension

Suspension-wise, the Ohlins was superior for daily driving and much superior for track driving, but the gap isn't as much as I would've thought. OEM is definitely good enough for country roads if it's new(ish).
Power-wise, stock is enough to have fun, but I definitely notice the turbo lag. Although I hated the noise that came with an almost open exhaust, it really drove great with just stock twins.

I'd probably go for something like this in the regular course of replacing old, worn-out parts on an FD:
Replace dampers with Ohlins, replace exhaust with a racing beat or similar to OEM type. OEM clutch is fine, but I'm really enjoying a lightened flywheel even for daily driving.

Gman I agree I have the ohlins on my car and they are superior to the oem especially on a roadcourse. Although my pet 6262 divided manifold turbo boost pretty quickly the two twins did a better job at low rpm. My exterior and interior are oem. It's only under the hood that you notice there are some mods. I do like the vmount over the oem smic also. The twins are what I miss sometimes. I will not go back to twins because of heat and complexity. I the near future I would like to go for the 8374 iwg Borg Warner turbo.

Turbo lag on a stock setup? :scratch:

If anything, the main attribute of the stock sequential system is the instant boost response.

Nothing
 

Nothing seems to boost as fast as the twin turbo. The borg warners are close though. I live in Orlando where there are open highways and very little elevation changes. Even the tracks are high speed in this area. Single turbos medium size seem to rule this area. The twins are good for autocross around here but that is about it. I was just in the Smokey mountains and if my car was driven there I would prefer the twins. I would go with the bnr twins though

It's been two years and I'm still glad i bought a stock FD. It came with some nice 17" Racing Beat wheels and a quiet Fujitsubo catback. I swapped the wheels for stock 16s with summer tyres ust to get the original feel of the car.
Now I've spent a fair amount on maintenance, plus a Greddy SMIC and boost/temp gauge. The car drives so nicely, despite the odd hiccup from the sequential system.
I constantly daydream about track day mods, nice wheels, and a respray. But the money vs satisfaction doesn't add up for me.
I do appreciate the heavily modified cars seen at meets and trackdays, but my car is in turn praised for it's stock condition.

A whole lot of truth^. Im a big proponent of the Pettit and M2 modified factory ECUs. Even with emissions deleted, the stock ecu offers the best driveability and comfort for stock twins if you have a healthy engine. It can even handle minor porting before the overly rich idle becomes obnoxious. One thing you mention that most ignore is the tip in issues with aftermarket ecus. In my opinion, its more annoying then minor 3k hesitation that happens on stock ECUs. The stock ecu/modified ecus do have their limits but overall driveability is unmatched. The only reason I like the PFC as well is because of the commander and its ability to display so many different readings without having aftermarket gauges displayed in the car.

The problem with those stock-like ECUs is that you can't run them with a street ported motor :(

I can admire a fully stock FD. Do I want one?
Nope.
The FD for me was a must have for a long time. A fantasy car. I have always liked and appreciated the under dogs. (Almost got a damn lotus esprit instead, but I couldn't get the rotary bug out of me). There are not too many cars sub 80k that interest me, but the stock fd lacks the power I want. To keep up with the more modern cars it needs more power. I think a good solid twin sequential FD putting out 325-350ish rwhp could be as solid and reliable as a fully stock car and keep up with most things on the road. At least damn close to it with all the supporting mods. Fast enough to have fun? For me? HELL yeah!

The thing that always gets me about a stock FD, is how high you sit (and then how huge the wheel is). I've had race seats fixed-mounted on the floor and a 330mm wheel forever, and I can't remember the stocker. I think I'd need some Spirit R seats or something for a daily driver. I'd love to have the space for one though.

I believe @BLUE TII was able to get a specifically tuned daughterboard box from KnightSports in Japan, if that's what you're really after. May be an option for owners with setups outside the scope of Pettit/M2 standards, who want to retain the benefits of the stock ECU.

2nd FD = $35k
House with 2 car garage = $1.3M :lol: