AT to MT swap
 

I'm going saturday to buy my new FD. My only problem is the AT transmission. I am definitely going to swap it but I am interested in how much I should expect to pay for parts and how much I can sell the rebuilt auto tranny for. Thanks.

If you are in SC, talk to my technition Bryan right outside of Charlotte. He is the best around and all he works on is RX-7s. He'll definitely be able to help you out with the manual conversion. I am not sure about the total price but it is well worth it. Tell him Garrett sent ya.

www.rotorsportsracing.com

thanks but I'll be doing it myself.

It's always the best way.

A few people on this forum have done the swap. One had posted a walk-through with price listings for his swap. Try and find that.

wow that would be ideal as it would provide me with exactly what is needed as well. Thanks diablone

The user is 'ejmack1.' But it seems as though the thread was deleted.

I'm also interested in what would be required for a tranny swap.

Im pretty much just interested in what is a good deal for the parts... for example:

transmission - $x
driveshaft - $x
pedals - $x

COsborne, I don't know if you remember me or not but I'm in Charleston and had the '93 Touring 5 speed. The car has now become a parts car if you're interested. My entire driveline is still perfect and I'd be willing to work something out with you for the parts that you'd need. Especially if we could work out a deal on your FC. PM me or email at thephoenix858@hotmail.com I do hope that you're interested. I'd really like to pick up your FC. Let me know something. laterz.

Zach

doesnt happen to be the drivetrain john is trying to sell me does it? :)

Yeah, that's the one. Hey, are you near a phone that I could call you on??

If so, PM me with the number and we'll talk.

yeah I can go get it downstairs or you can IM me on aim OsborneStyle

Go get the phone. I'm at work and can't access AIM. THanx. PM me with the number

you have a pm

Maybe, maybe not TTurboXfd3s. I'm trying to work out a sweet deal with him. Laterz.

Zach

good tranny = $500

shifter = $200
4:10 diff = $500
or just 5 speed companion plate (recommended) = $100
drive shaft = $75
wiring harness used(recommended) = $250
pedals = $100
clutch (new dude) 6-puck ceramic w/ HD pressure plate = $500
stock flywheel = $75
miscellaneous bolts (like bell housing bolts) = $50
manual ecu = $100
new fluid (neo) = $75
boot leather = $50
knob = $100 oem
instrument cluster = $200 used low miles
lightened flywheel (what I did) = $500
clutch master = $70
Clutch slave = $50
SS clutch line = $25
clutch pipes= $12

*TOTAL: $2932 (at least)

350 rwhp 5-speed Fd: PRICELESS!

Great some folks claim did it for under 1k...whatever!!! this is very rare...and I would not put a used clutch etc since you will not want to do this again!

*The above price does not include getting GANKED by other members on the Forum.

This is a huge undertaking...do not underestimate it...if you are buying I would avoid this altogether and get a 5speed.

Very simple task, I can not tell you how simple it is. I did this conversion on jackstands, with a 90 piece mechanics set. With no air tools. And yes it was right around $1K. Selling all my stock parts, I wouldn't be suprised if I did it for around $800. It takes a lot of patience to get this done, that is how I got it done so cheap. I found a guy parting his car and made an offer for everything. Then i bought a new clutch, 400 bucks from rx7.com.Wiring harness was a very very easy task to convert.

good tranny = $300

shifter = $200 you are on crack, $20 bucks for stock shifter
4:10 diff = $150
or just 5 speed companion plate (recommended) = $100 so i guess you added this price in also
drive shaft = $75
wiring harness used(recommended) = NOT NEEDED
pedals = $100
clutch = $400
stock flywheel = $25
miscellaneous bolts (like bell housing bolts) = $10
manual ecu = $100 I didn't include this, because i was upgrading it anyway
new fluid (neo) = $75
boot leather = $20
knob = $20
instrument cluster = Not needed, but i got mine for $70
lightened flywheel (what I did) = Not Needed, plus you already added price for stock flywheel
clutch master = $20
Clutch slave = $20
SS clutch line = $10 at autozone
clutch pipes= $12


Your prices are screwy man, you add the same type of item multiple times, you increase many of the prices by 100%, and most people will buy used equipment...

The people that have needed help in the past, and are actually interested in this conversion, have found my telephone number and called me personally. I have spent probably 10-12 hours on the phone with people walking them through shit, but responding to bullshit posts like this is really a waste of time.

Btw, there is nothing wrong with using a used cluthc(I did it at first, then bought a new one, and still remained around a grand), as long as there is meat on it and you replace the collar and ring on the pressure plate, you will be fine.

Don't we expect this at the time we sign the loan or title of the car anyway?

Seriously...tell me BULLSHIT?....I have damned near R&Red the whole car....

I bought the tranny and sent it away to have it rebuilt...I guess if you want GHETTO job yes it can be done much cheaper...but I plan to keep my car for awhile and think doing things right the first time is the best. I want solid piece of mind...you never know what kind of parts you get on the forum.

Really ejmack1.....how many people on this forum have a chance to buy everything for less than 1k? Not many.

I dont want to put used clutch in my car...I'm there...might as well do it right...not saying you can get away with doing it another way...that is just not my way.

Yeah dickhead..the pettit short shifter runs about $200..that is what I have...sure you can put a $20 shifter in your car (to go with your veilside front end)...I would rather not.

My tranny I bought ($350) had rebuilt for another $300...to make sure it was fit for track and agressive driving...do not want to go back in 10k miles later to repair.

WHO SOLD YOU A 4.10 DIFF FOR $150?...if you got a good one well more power to you...not likely as they go for $450 regularly on this forum and $850 at the junk yards.

Where can you buy a stock refinished flywheel for $25? (sure you did...but is this the norm?) if you are going to get a new clutch...most companies will not even warranty them without a resurfaced flywheel it costs about $30 just to resurface it.

Dude, please dont talk out the side of your neck...big deal you did it with jack stands....well so did I. my car has been down for four months....the engine bay is completely polished....brakes, coilovers, intake exhaust...did it all blah blah...you like braggin to others how cheap you did it...but anyone who has done reasonable research knows better.

Why put a used knob inside? I wont, my interior panels are complete carbon fiber....no wore out knobs...since I have a pettot short shifter you cant use the Fd knob ($97) I used the miata knob ($119)...unless you want to put a fake apc knob in your car!! Yes, I am aware mspeed sells a knob for $50...(not anymore they are discontinued)

Why put a used clutch slave or master in your car? It is not that much more to buy it new...hell thats like buying used brake lines!

I personally chose the 8.5lb billet Al flywheel...so i'll be selling a brand new flywheel soon for about $75.

so please help people but dont speak for others....I have damn near rebuilt my car...the whole thing.

This is not hard per se...but the conversion is very involved and I am just sharing my experiences....and costs since I have done it myself.

$2432...at least for parts

Or I guess they can do it ghetto for 1k!

I dont ever want to do this again...so much work...learned a bunch though...and will post pics very soon.

I will run car for about a week to make sure all checks are good then it will be in the body shop for two weeks.

oh btw, let chat about the ecu...this $100 is if you dont have mods...

used ecu pettit $400
power fc = $1300

"...an this hits just keep on coming."

ejmak1:
"thanks for playing"

hmmm, so you are giving prices for nearly all new stuff, a lot of the people that are interested in doing this conversion, don't have a lot of money to spend, and there is nothing wrong with used items(except the clutch with should get replaced, but if you have to go used, there is nothing wrong with that). It takes 30 minutes to drop a tranny, so if a clutch goes... who cares!

stock shifter, you can get for about 20 bucks... you don't NEED a pettit shifter to do the conversion, you don't even need a new shift knob. Mazdaspeed(can't remember who it was) or someone has them for 50 bucks if you want a new one(not stock, but it still looks good), and they look pretty damn good. Clutch Slave and Master, rebuild kits all together cost around 20 bucks for both... and you can pick up the actual cyclinders for cheap

I am very happy for you that you have a nearly rebuilt car, and have a degree in mathematics(whooop'd doooo). Im perfectly happy, with school full time and work full time. Is that such a bad thing?
Obviously English didn't rank high in your education.
The flywheels was kinda pushing it on price, but hey, i found a resurfaced one for that price. Shit happens, you get deals if you wait.

All in all, for havin my car since i was 18, and pretty much knowing every part of the car(or having every part removed) lol, I dont think im doin to bad... Ghetto??? Nah, just well thought out and extremely patient. No one could tell it was ever an auto, and I have had 3 RX7 owners drive it.

BTW, the differential wqas bought from a reputable shop in Florida.... you just have to wait for deals man... and chill thefuck out!

No one is asking what you would rather do, they are asking for information....

Since I plan to run around 350rwhp, it is important that the every critical part is upgraded for increased performance. Not everyones goal is the same therefore their cost/experience will not be the same. Personally, the conversion has cost me alot since I have been GANKED by many on this forum. But hell, someone may be lucky and have a salvage FD next door w/ a retired mechanic from Pettit and a dyno in his garage....but I also have a Brooklyn bridge for sale.

My car is highly modified so using substandard equipment is futile.

Sure it can be done much cheaper, but for my needs and goals for performance/longevity/reliability those were my costs.

Hell, I am even in the process of rebuilding my diff so what happened to vosko does not happen to me.

"Do it right, do it once!"

As far as the attack on my composition abilities, I really dont spend alot of time proofreading informal posts on an internet site. You dont want to go there. Search under my username is check out some of my more "formal" and very technical posts.

Well I got what I wanted :p:

Im goin to K.L. during the weekend and was planning to look for 2nd hand parts... but i would rather get the clutch and the flywhell new!

ok... this is for the not so bright people like me... does any1 have the parts number of all d list stated above... :D and is there any link that you guys can recommend??

ejmack1 & Cover8: it's definitely interesting how u guys have different solutions to this swap... we appreciate you both for sharing...tanx for the info!!! :D

My overall opinion looking back:

If you are buying an FD then get a manual! Unless the car price makes close to $3k in conversion cost worthwhile.

Evaluate your goals for performance and your budget. The auto is still a killer car...if I had to do it over again, I would have simply sold it and put it towards a manual FD.

But $1000 for a conversion is BULLSHIT (possible but highly unlikely) and is not the norm. How do you change a clutch, buy a new one and still keep the overall conversion price under 1k? Sounds like ENRON math to me!

Did I mention purchasing a torque wrench? $100

Hopefully, your used tranny will have a clutch engagement collar...$100

tanx cover8... where i live, it will only cost me less than $600... wiv labor!!! ;)

Theres a great workshop here, where they sell choped half FD3S exported directly from Japan... Guess how much??? $1800!!!!! just imagine, from bumper to midsection, including engine, turbo, trans... ect... :D

A couple of months ago, there was an half chop pink
RE-Amemiya fully modified... but some1 got if first... :(

I did my swap for about 1500 bucks, but thats with my and my dad doing the labor. You just have to look around and find the best deals you can, lucky I know alot of friends that were parting out there's when I was doing my conversion.;)

350 New Clutch - 150 Old clutch(sold) = 200 for new clutch ;)

Around 1K is possible, sorry you do not believe it, but seeing you probably had your tranny and pressure plate polished along with that engine bay.... i coudl see the higher price that you are seemingly thinking it costs....

JACKASS....

Finishing up mine tonight (hopefully hehe). Found a forum member not to far away that had a car to part out and got the drive train from him for $2800 including a 10k mile ported engine, tranny, drive shaft, pedals, wiring harness, stock ecu and all engine accesories, I just had to go pick it up and help pull it hehe. Got companion flange for $50 off the forum (from cover8 actually). Momo shift knob for $76 from rx7store and B&M short shifter though didnt need to buy it for the conversion as it came with the stock shifter. Clutch that came with motor and tranny is fairly new, probably put on when motor was done. Another couple hundred bucks in miscelaneous gaskets and torque wrench.

Figure if I sold my engine (had good compression when I pulled it) and the AT tranny I could probably recoupe 2kish so about 1kish for the conversion. Alot has to do with luck and timing. Reason I did the conversion is I ran across my auto FD for 5k from a friend of a friend that owns a used car lot that was hurting for xmas money hehe. Figure 5k for car and 1.5k for conversion and I think I made out pretty well myself.

Oh and I didnt bother with the gauge cluster. Thought of doing the wiring harness mod for the clutch and starter but figured it wasnt much more work to switch it out since I had it sitting there.

Sam

Does the 5 speed bolt up to the rear of the automatic engine block? The part numbers are different between an automatic rear plate and a manual. So are the part numbers for the eccentric shaft, counter balance water pump and housing etc. and I also heard that the bolt pattern is different. Any truth to this?

ejmack1: How do you drop a tranny with/on only jackstands in 30 mins? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

I put a transmission back in my FC last night in a little over 30 minutes

got a write up on how to do it so quickly? I might need to drop one soon...

I'd like more info on the front counter balances. Are they the same? They look the same but the 88-89 counter balances look the same as well and I know for a fact that those years vary. All the parts I have are from 93.

just to clarify - Ive read that the front "balance weight" as its referred to in the FSM (behind the front cover) needs to be replaced with the change from the flex plate/balance to the flywheel. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me... Why would that balance be different from engine to engine? I need to know the answer to this for SURE

I checked the parts book (1993 FD3S) and the part numbers between the front CB for an auto and a manual are different. I've heard more than one person/source say that you can just install a lightweight flywheel and the rear CB from an auto to the flywheel and you should be OK. You might call Atkins Rotary or another shop that has experince in this and make sure first. Please post what ever response you get from them for the rest of us so we can get the facts straight. I'm not sure if you can believe everything you see posted here.

I'll be doing my tranny swap next week so I should have a better idea then.

Thanks,

Raptor

yeah Ive gotten screwed by people not knowing what theyre talking about on here...

It seems like everyone agrees that you can use the auto balance

BrianHinsonSupercars can answer your questions, as well as access tp conversion parts. Hes is a great guy to do bussiness with. Carter

I bought a lightened flywheel no need to worry about it now :)

Its funny how people argue about how much the AT to MT swap will cost when it will be very different for each person depending on what you change, where you get your items and for how much. Here's what I was able to get for less than $1600 which included shipping, then I'll tell you how I did it;

5 Spd Tranny - used
Quick Shift kit - new
MT Eng wiring harness - used
LSD - used
Center console - used
MT instrument cluster - used
Knight Sports modified (re-chipped) MT CPU - used
Clutch and Brake padals - used
Light Weight Flywheel - new
Clutch - new
pressure plate - almost new
Diff Seals, Rear Eng and tranny Seal - new
Throwout bearing, collar, pilot bearing - new
Assorted hardware - new and used
Redline gear oil - new (obviously)
Clutch master cyl - new
Slave cyl (and spare clutch cyl) and all piping - used
Steel braided clutch line - new
MT starter - used
Propeller (drive) shaft - used

I know a lot of this stuff isn't even required so I could have done it for half the price I payed. In fact I saw one guy selling just about everything I have listed above including a PPF but no CPU or wire harness for around $400. I was already commited to what I bought so I didn't jump on that deal.

Here's how I did it; I live in Japan. A good 25% of the cost is due to shipping. I shopped on Yahoo Japan Auction and got most items used and a few items new (flywheel and shift kit) for much less than dealer. A few items I ordered directly from the dealer.

Now I don't care too much what this costs becasue I look at it two ways, first I got my car ('93 JDM FD3S with less than 40K miles in perfect condition and new paint) for less than $6000. Second, I like working on the FD and I like a challenge so it is also a great hobby and a good learning experience. I can also sell what I took off and recover a good portion of what I spent.

Be patient, shop around and be creative. You'll be surprised at what great deals there are to be had out there.

Raptor

There seems to be a lot of debate on the harness issue... what harnesses have to be changed and can you just add the additional wires or omit the parts that work based on the neutral switch?

Wish I could help here but my car is a JDM and I believe the harnesses are different.

Anybody else care to answer?

The harnesses are definitely different. The engine (em) harness is obviously different than the auto harness. Additionally, so are the dash and front harnesses.

For example, if you use the manual engine (recommended) harness you will need the manual ring harness as well. The end clips that go through the firewall to connect to the dash and front harness will NOT mate. So you have some choices here...you can keep the manual unadulterated but the ring harness (harness that connects the engine to the front and dash harness) will also have to be a manual too (what I did $260). Here is where it gets interesting (if I havent lost you yet!) the manual ring harness will now mate with the manual engine harness but it will still not mate with the clips on the auto dash and front harness (fock!). Ask me how I know....

So you say...'WTF!" Well, this is what I did, just my solution yours could better so dont stop thinking...I used the manual engine and ring harness...carefully clipped the plastic connectors from the auto ring harness (the ones that connect to the dash and front harness). Then I removed connectors from the maual ring harness that would have normally clipped to the manual dash and front harness. I then reterminated the functional wires from the auto clipped connectors to the manual ring wires. THE CONNECTIONS ARE NOT OBVIOUS! And the wires do not always match in color...I know this because I had Dave at KD reterminate the ring harness wires for me ($125).

When the harness got back, many wires were unterminated. For example, the dash harness clip for the auto is larger in both geometry and wire count...some of thos wires therfore will not be used/terminated. The x-05 connector, huge blue one on an auto, has nearly double the amount of wires (auto tranny functions) than the manual x-05.

I found this particular task a little over my capacity for patience (not to mention technical prowess) so I sent the harness to Dave @ KDR...my speedo, tach work great. My backup lights work great too...

I bypassed the starter interlock....and the neutral switch is not connected (my AWS is removed) Manual functions work just fine.

Lastly, I found the mechanical stuff easier and somewhat enjoyable....much, much simpler than the electrical transformation necessary to do the AT-MT swap and retain functionality. Overall, I did not find this conversion "easy" at all considering that I had to learn all by myself.

I blew a motor a few weeks back because of bad info on this forum...so please, please be careful.

Good luck!
Hope this helps...

For you fellas doing the conversion please save this thread...I will not post this again:

FROM DAVE AT KDR


Connector X-14 Auto trans side

Brown/white- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Blue/Red- for PRNDSL signal (unused)
Yellow/Green- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Lite Green/White- for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Red/Blue for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Yellow/Blue- 12v source for PRNDSL signal(unused)
Brn/Black- TO reverse lights (used)
White/yellow- to Hold Button input (unused)
Blue/White- Cruise and Data Link Connector (unused)
Lite Green/Red- Stop Light Switch Input(unused)
Green/black- Speedo input(used)
Blue- Speedo input(used)

The rest listed are the mix of auto and manual harness that work together

blue- 2nd gear switch (unused)
white- 1st gear switch (unused)
blue/green- neutral switch (unused)
yellow- electrical load input signal (used)
Brn-Yellow fuel thermo sensor (used)
Black/red-water thermo switch (used)
Yellow/white -temp gauge (used)
Green-speedo input (used)
Orange- speedo input (used)
Black-ground for cluster needs to be grounded
yellow/red-reverse light power(used)
green/yellow- reverse light out(used)
lite/green-neutral switch (not used)

Connector x-05 (large blue auto side)

Black/blue-ground (used)
Blue-shift solenoid 3 (not used)
Brown-shift solenoid 4 (not used)
Yellow- shift solenoid 5 (not used)
Green-shift solenoid 6 (not used)
Yellow/red-shift solenoid #1 (not used)
Black(thin) water thermoswitch for auto (not used)
black/green-cooalnt fan module input (used)
white/blue-coolant fan module (used)
the following five wire colors are all inputs for the auto trans so they are not used
Grren/white
Green/red
Green/yellow
Red/white
Blue/green
Brn/White-Map sensor (used)
Black/lite green- Map sensor (used)
Heavy gauge black-ground (needs to be grounded)

the other wires come from the manual side small blue connector

black/blue-air pump relay(used)
yellow-first gear (not used)
red-2nd gear (not used)
Brown-neutral switch (not used)

:)

Cover8, thanks a million for the info. Maybe I'm just being stupid here but I assume you did use a manual tranny computer and not the auto one.

I can't understand why I've heard more than one person say they just used the auto harness with a manual CPU and had no problems once bypassing the nuetral safety switch. Then again it was always, "I helped a friend ... and you can't be too sure of the actual year car either. Hmmm......

I'm more inclined to believe what you said by looking at the schematics I have. I kind of hope its not as difficult as you say because it might be one long summer without my car if so. I'd probably break down and just replace all the harnesses from a wrecked FD instead of trying to splice a bunch of wires. I'm not good enough to have confidence in that not to mention not having the time or the right schematics. I'm looking at the US model service manual and I have a JDM FD3S. Although most parts are the same, there are also a lot of differences. I know the harnesses are but by how much, I don't know because the emission and saftey laws are different here.

I'll post something once I get it sorted out and the car back on the road in the next week or so.

Dont let my evaluation of the "difficulty" intimidate you...you likely have much more applicable ability where I do not.

I keep hearing how simple the conversion is and to me clearly, it is not so simple. But that is my opinion...from the doing the work myself.

Yes, I did use the manual ecu...now I am using a Power FC. Btw, me blowing my motor wasnt due anything to do with the swap. I wrongly terminated the ignition harness (I put the white blue then black instead of white black then blue...ouch!)

Good Luck!

Dont you just hate when you spend so much time accumulating all the stuff, do a bunch of research and breeze through 95% of the job and the last 5% is the real show stopper. Why is it that the last 5% of the work always takes 95% of the effort.

Thanks again for all your advice. I'm sure with what you provided, I should be able to get to 98% before I hit a major snag