Why did they name them T2
 

It may be a dumb question, But My buddy just asked and I dont know. Turbo2. no idea. Shed some light brothers

It is the 2nd turbo model Mazda has made for the RX-7


The first turbo model was the Japan-only 12A turbo.

Thanx.

Did they ever get any of those over here, anyone got any pix

They were orginally going to be called the GT
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...cd-0486-01.jpg
and be available without all the power gee gaws

Rx-7Addict you have a nicccee clen car man, heh sorry to go off the subject but I saw your site and saw the pics. nice one man :)

-marshall

while we are talking about his clean car and his site... I must agree, nice car... WTF did you do to that NEON....

LMFAO!!!!!!!

I can't believe you took it out on the road!

:rofl: :hah: :rofl: :hah: :rofl: :hah: :rofl: :hah: :rofl: :hah:

Nope.

The first turbo rotary was the 12A Turbo originally fitted to the '82 Luce. Being a luxury car, the turbo was designed for very quick spooling at the expense of top-end power. "Dead and gone by 6500rpm". No intercooler, only two injectors (800cc/min!), low boost.

For '83 Mazda fitted that same engine to the RX-7 (model GT-X i do believe). The US got the GSL-SE instead. Very similar in spec, right down to the same 14" wheels. The engine was mated to basically an N/A transmission, no idea how well that worked though.

The FC Turbo was the second turbo RX-7 and so it was called the Turbo II.


There are other Turbo II's... for instance there were four different specs of Dodge turbo 4-cylinders, Turbo I, Turbo II, Turbo III, and Turbo IV. Turbo II Dodges are similar to Turbo Is except they have an intercooler. I won't go into the III's and IV's, this is just to let you know that if you hear someone talk about swapping a Turbo II engine into their Reliant/Omni/whatever they most likely are NOT referring to a rotary.

Interesting theory.

But...

They are the first turbo RX7 model to be available in the states.

This is relevant because in Australia they are not known as Turbo IIs. We didn't get the 12ATs here either. Why would they be called TIIs in the states when they were the first turbo model available but not in Oz were they were also the first turbo models available?

Did that make sense to anyone?

Oh well.

Good point. Just like how we don't call ours the Savanna here but In Japan they do.

I was always under the impression that "TurboII" was derived from Mazda's unique "Twin-Scroll Turbocharger" design.

Sensei;)

"Twin-Scroll Turbocharger" design. sensei
What is this?? Never heard of such a thing can you tell us a little more?

Twin scroll stuff:
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...cd-0486-02.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...cd-0486-03.jpg

Nice information. Thanx all.

What models had those seats in the US? Reason I am asking is because my '86 base has them, and I have never seen them on another car.

PJ

Those are the standard series 4 T2 seats, found in the 87-88 T2 and 88 GTU.

The base did not come with them. someone has swapped them in for you :)

I always thought that TurboII meant it was a Second Gen Turbo. Maybe I'm wrong.

Chris

yep 2nd turbo model

name
 

I was always under the impression that "TurboII" was derived from Mazda's unique "Twin-Scroll Turbocharger" design.

Sensei


This is where the name came from, Sensei is correct!!

Yes, we drove it around town quite a lot actually. And, heres the best part. We took it to the Friday night cruise-in classic car show at Dairy Queen. There were 50+ cars there and the Neon was a hit! Everyone thought it was hilarious. Good times..

thanks for the compliment

EDIT::: Were those 2 different color Turbo II seats available in the US? The only T2 seats Ive seen have been all one color, either grey cloth, red cloth, grey leather, or the special black leather on the 10AE

T2
 

They were named "Turbo II" because the engine was the second turbo charged RX-7, the first being the Japanese market only turbo first gen with a 12A. Several people have already said this and it is true. This has been published in several books.

You could look at the FD as the "Turbo III" if you really wanted to.

Icemark....the guy who has the S4 Turbo II seats in his base probably has a Sport package car because they came with the S4 turbo seats. Or....some swapped them in if he has 14" wheels and 4 lugs.

i always thought that they called it there turbo 2 because its 2 times faster than ANY honda!!!!! mauahahhaha

Re: T2
 

Nope the sports did not have those seats. They had the standard base seats.

it wasn't until the 88 GTU did those seats become available on a NA car.

I am sure someone swapped them in.

I have only seen them in Blue and gray cloth, or blue, gray or black leather, but I am sure that off red was probably an available color as well.

right click save. right click save, right click save, good find man what is that artical out of?

I looked through the 86 & 87 catalogs and could find no info that the 86 & 87 Sports had the S4 Turbo II seats, so I guess I am wrong. Thanks Icemark, I did not know about that.

Oh....could you post the rest of that Car & Driver article Icemark? Thanks.

I owned a 87 Sport that I bought new at the dealer for almost 10 years.

Quote:

---

Oh....could you post the rest of that Car & Driver article Icemark? Thanks.

---

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...cd-0486-04.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...cd-0486-05.jpg

I think its rather intresting that, that model that Mazda had built and brought over here was basicly a Sport with a Turbo. No power windows, no power mirrors, no sun roof, not even the eq for the radio. And it came with the Sport's aero stuff, which the final version of the T2 didn't get until 88.

To me that's how they should have sold the T2... A GT version like in that article and a GXL version with all the power gee gaws junk. Drop the NA Sport and its later sibling the GTU and sell the GT Turbo instead.

But thats just my thinking.

... I like my GTU just fine, thanks Mark.

I'd agree in a perfect world, but Mazda is in business to sell cars not just to satisfy a few enthusiasts. What percentage of FC RX-7s sold were Turbos? 5% 10% 15% ????

Most people want to look fast, but not go very fast. Plus, more the turbo model costs more, cost more to insure and costs Mazda more warranty claims.

I'd say we were lucky to get the Turbo II at all. Look at what happened with the FD. Turbo only and it was a critical success but a commercial disaster and a disaster from Mazda's dealers standpoint.

Thats why the RX-8 will br non-turbo only.

Also, you need to realize that the Sport, GTU and GTUS models were made with weekend warrior SCCA competion in mind. Traditionally, non-turbo cars are classed more favorably than turbo cars. Some racing series ban turbos all together or make them run with huge V8 cars. I think in SCCA competition, the FC non turbo had a better record in C stock than the Turbo II in A stock.

But for my purposes, I would like what you like. A turbo II with no sunroof, no power locks, no power windows, no rear wiper, no alarm and no silly speed sensitive power steering (RPM sensitive, yes)and an aero package.

Don't get me wrong... I like the 88 GTU... My dad has one in his garage that he only drives a couple times a month... Like R&T says, the 88 GTU should have been the 10th AE...it is a much more pure sports car without all the power crap.

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...rt-0000-01.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...rt-0000-04.jpg http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...rt-0000-05.jpg

I love the articles! Any of the 89-92 Turbo II??

:withstupi

I am working on it...the series 5 cars were not as spectacular (well alone had considerably lower market appeal) and there are less articles because of that.

http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-01.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-02.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-03.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-04.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-05.jpg
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2ndgen/arti...mt-0889-06.jpg

How about this one from car and driver for a car never built but should have:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...&postid=723534

Re: Re: T2
 

AWESOME... I guess I have T2 seats, then-- but mine are (were) red. Unfortunately, I find these seats REALLY uncomfortable unless they are inclined just right. They need to get re-upholstered.

Any guesses how much people would pay for these?

PJ

Cool Icemark! I remember reading either from R&T or C&D comparing the TII to the NSX when it was first introduced back in 1991.
So what are your thoughts or findings on what "Turbo II" originated from?

I agee with the above statements that the Turbo II name came from the second version of the Turbo charged rotary in a RX-7. Its a bit vauge for the States, but makes sense in a Mazda sort of way.

These articles should have been required reading for RX8 engineers. 4-door sports car, bah. 2 doors, 2 seats, no frills, lots of fun. Since I haven't driven an 8, I can't say too much, but everything I've seen says it could use a diet. Look at the 350Z. Now that is a resurection of a proud sports car line. No frills, no gimmicks, just car. I hope Mazda comes around to give us a pure car again. There's always too much trying to sell every car to every buyer. Targeted design and marketing are far too rare these days. While flipping channels, I saw a feminine hygene add during a football game. Granted, some chicks watch the sport, but it could have been a cost effective marketing tactic.

I guarantee you that Mazda are well aware of the abilities of its earlier cars. They'll also well aware of how well they sold. Or didn't. While your wish for a "pure" sports car is understandable, you need to get a dose of the same reality Mazda has. Look at the FD: two doors, two seats, no frills, lots of fun, no sales! You haven't seen any official weight figures yet, so you're only guessing. And you can't do that by looking! What is it you've seen that "looks" heavy? How is the 350Z better than the RX-8? It certainly loses in the looks department. At a porky 3170lb, you'd hardly call it a lightweight, although it does have a nice grunty engine. What gimmicks and frills does the RX-8 have that the 350Z doesn't? I bet the RX-8 gets electric everything just like the 350Z has. That's called economic reality. You need to look at the bigger, longer-term picture. Mazda could make another FD, and it'll probably sell just as bad (because that's simply the state of the world's economy), Mazda will lose a truckload of money, Ford will cancel the funding for the rotary programme (they'll have no other choice) and we'll never see a production road-going rotary again. Ever! Or, Mazda could market (and hopefully sell) the RX-8 to a much broader group of buyers, sell many more units that it would with a "pure" sports car, make lots of money, and get approval to add a new "RX-7" to it's line-up. Which option do you prefer?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the RX-7 is much closer to the ideal than the RX-8, but that doesn't make the RX-8 a bad car, far from it. But the future of rotary-powered Mazdas rest entirely on selling as many RX-8's as possible, not pandering a to a few hardcore enthusiasts like us! ;)

Well said NZ...

Besides no one here has driven a RX-8 yet. Despite the intresting door setup, I would not be the least bit surprised if the RX-8 has very simular performance to the FD, without the atmosphereic price and mediocre quality.

=-The twinscroll turbo.
What year did the twinscroll turbo's come in the US market cars?
I know they didn't come in the earlier t2'z..
87-88/early 89?
Late 89-91?

If you read the first article I posted, you'll see that it was with the first TII, back in 86.

awsome articles

good info

5 stars :)

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding this, but just to clarify... Even though there were changes between the series4 and the series5 RX7 Turbos, they retained the "Twin Scroll" design.
Basically it was the only turbocharger available in the series4/5 FC RX-7 Turbo models from 1986 thru 1992. This also applies to all the Luce 13B Turbo models from 1986 thru 1991 and I'm pretty sure that it was offered in the Cosmo 13B Turbo models from 1990 thru 1995. These Cosmo 13B Turbos were under-rated in Japan at 230hp while the series5 RX7's were J-rated at 180hp.

Just to add to the "Turbo II" theory... I thought in Japan they were labled as a GT or GT-X and the stock intercoolers did not have "TURBO II" painted on it like ours did here in the states. I dunno, anyone???

That's right. The S5 turbo has a twin-scroll turbine housing like the S4's, but it doesn't have the flap that closes off the larger scroll at low rpm. This was deleted (I think) because the faster spooling caused by the electronic boost control made it redundant. True, although only the S4-spec engine was used. No, these engines were a version of the FD RX-7's twin-turbo 13B. They had a different state of tune optimised for torque, which resulted in slightly less power than the FD but the same peak torque acheived at lower revs. In non-US markets the S4 was officially rated at 133kW (178hp) and the S5 146kW (196hp), both less than the US cars. This is odd given they had less power-robbing emission controls. So someone's telling porkies... ;) That's true, check my avatar. It's a photo of my intercooler. I've always thought it odd that the FC was called the Turbo II in the market that didn't get the first RX-7 Turbo, but not in the market that did! Weird, but very Mazda... :D

finally a good thread for once...
5 stars for sure.

damn i wish my 89 TII was brand spanking new from the dealer still... sigh... i was only 7 years old at the time... and i never noticed them on the road... at that age the only car i knew were lamborgini

Ooops... yes NZConvertible, you're right... thank you for correcting me.

I am lead to believe that all the past turbocharged rotary engines were actually first developed for the Luce/Cosmo models not the RX7's. Since the Cosmo offered the "sequential twin turbos" back in 1990, then that would suggest the later FD RX7 to using versions from the Cosmo instead, which kinda supports this theory...

Sensei;)

[quote]Look at the FD: two doors, two seats, no frills, lots of fun, no sales! /[quote]
You left out the biggest factor though. The FD was built into a super car, and marketed as a sports car, so the price was higher than the established market was willing to bear, and since the name was the same, it couldn't capture a new market.

Two extra seats, overly plush interior, marketing geared toward the mid 40's crowd all say that this car is more luxuary than muscle.

This one I can't answere. I understand that the RX-8 is not simply a continuation of the RX-7 line, like the 350 is of the Z line.


This is the one completely flawed idea in your post, and it stems from the same mistake nearly every car maker on the planet makes on a daily basis. By specializing the individual products, while diversifying the product line, any business can boost sales. However, every time, and I do mean every time, a product is expanded on to make it more generic, sales fall. Look at the Corvette. When it was firt released, it was purchased and driven by men in their late 30's to mid 40's, in general. The target audience has not changed one iota. It still sells to the late 30-mid 40 year old crowd. As a contrast, lets look athe Mustang (still one of my favorite cars). When it was first released, it was marketed too and purchased by mid-20 to early 30 year olds, often with brand new families. As these buyer got older, ford attempted to age the car to continue selling to the same people, rather than the same market. The results have been disasterous. The car has been dumed down and softened up to keep in touch with buyers, rather than its market.

I understand the need to sell cars to many people, but most people, on an individual level, buy and use only one car, so why build 30 cars to meet every market segment, when you could build 30 cars for the 30 market segments and spend less on marketing and frills?

Yeah, I guess that's true. The 12AT was introduced with the HB Cosmo in 1982. It was the first turbocharged rotary and the first rotary with EFI. It then became available in the 1984 Series 3 RX-7. The twin-turbo 13B was first available in the 1991 JC Cosmo, about a year before the FD RX-7 was released. :)

You make a valid point, and I'm sure sometimes it does work this way, but not often. The very example I used conclusively proves a highly specialised car won't sell as many units. The FD RX-7!
These sorts of cars require a strong economy to be successful. The better off people are, the more money they'll have to spend on a second (less practical) car to play with on the weekend. But if you can only afford one car, you have to consider the practicalites of using it every day. For most people, a car like the RX-8 would suit that role much better than a new "FD" would. The simple fact is Mazda can't afford to build both types of cars yet, so it has chosen the type of car that'll appeal to a broader group of people, and so should sell more units.
Besides, I'd hardly call the RX-8 too "generic". It's still a sports car (yes, even with four doors), and it's got an engine that's not exactly common... :D