What is the fastest way to gain your N/A hp?
Hi there,
I have a 89 Rx7 GXL NA, these days I felt my car need some hp. Does anyone know how to gain your hp with out swap to the turbo engine by cheapest way? I have Borla cat-back, 1 and 2nd performance cat. stock intake. Thanks |
Well, you really don't gain much horsepower out of the N/A FC. You'll probably hit around 240 HP at most.
The only thing left is to use what you've got: Weight red. Suspension A few tweaks here and there is all you got left kind of... |
Header (RB,Corksport)
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remove the A/c get block off plates for the air pump remove ur cats also i found that my safc freeed up a few hp with a decent tune intake? not a whole lot you can do without tearing the engine down/ internals
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NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSS!
-Ted |
Yep, by far the cheapest hp/dollar and hp/effort is Nitrous Oxide. You can do a 50, 100, 150 or whatever shot for under $1000, where to get the comperable hp from other mods would cost a lot more and will suffer from drivability problems.
About the highest you can get is just over 300hp to the ground with a preripheral port. |
Originally Posted by HAI-TEK7
(Post 7509909)
Header (RB,Corksport)
Thank you. |
full headers exhaust, get a fuel computer and get it tuned. ditch a/c ps emissions. if you have some more money oyu can do a port job.
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lol....Bridge-port, Nos, rtek and exhaust and shut the n/a haters up already! The above video says it all! lol
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my question is what kind of numbers are u looking for?
mine is bridge ported, header, AAI, safc other things that dont matter much but anyway its more power than stock but its still not a turbo |
if you're talking stock ports?
Full exhaust (Speedsource, SDJ, ISC) (these are loud) AAI Rtek 2.0 ~$2k right there, not including labor You can probably get 180 to the wheels, max All out power? Standalone Full Peripheral Port with Lightened RX-8 rotors, Guru 2-piece E-shaft, bearings, stat gears, etc. Custom Long Primary Header Custom Long Primary Collector/Pre-silencer Custom single muffler Catback Independent Throttle Bodies with AAI Clutch Lightweight Flywheel Carbon Fiber Driveshaft Transmission Scatter Shield 5.12 (or higher) LSD diff Nitrous Oxide if you're feeling lucky ~$10-$15K? Gives you slightly over 300 whp + NOS, expect your engine to last maximum 30,000 miles and be completely undriveable on the street.
Originally Posted by dw89s5
(Post 7511515)
my question is what kind of numbers are u looking for?
mine is bridge ported, header, AAI, safc other things that dont matter much but anyway its more power than stock but its still not a turbo |
NOS! And your in luck i have a fogger setup for 100hp (brand new!) for $450 Om me if you want it!
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I think the most that the ITS guys (stock ports) get is about 175whp. With a massive streetport you can get to just over 200whp. A Bridgeport will give a little more, a J bride will give a little more still, and a PP will max out at a little over 300whp with a short primary header.
You can lighten S5 NA rotors more than you can lighten RX-8 rotors. |
Port
Full exhaust Fuel computer Then the rest you gotta be ready to pay to play. |
Originally Posted by Black91n/a
(Post 7511664)
I think the most that the ITS guys (stock ports) get is about 175whp. With a massive streetport you can get to just over 200whp. A Bridgeport will give a little more, a J bride will give a little more still, and a PP will max out at a little over 300whp with a short primary header.
You can lighten S5 NA rotors more than you can lighten RX-8 rotors. I would think that the p-port would benefit more from a long primary, wouldn't it? ITS guys have made 174 whp on stock fuel computer and Speedsource short primary exhaust.....I think you can top that with a little bit of fuel and timing tuning with the Rtek. |
Originally Posted by w0ppe
(Post 7509897)
Well, you really don't gain much horsepower out of the N/A FC. You'll probably hit around 240 HP at most.
The only thing left is to use what you've got: Weight red. Suspension A few tweaks here and there is all you got left kind of... |
lol @ just a 1.3L......you should read the countless arguments on why the rotary both is and isn't a traditional 1.3L.
Without modifying the engine...the most you'd get with bolt-ons and tuning is topside of 180 whp, with cool temperatures helping you out. |
Originally Posted by simoncbrr1
(Post 7511631)
NOS! And your in luck i have a fogger setup for 100hp (brand new!) for $450 Om me if you want it!
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From what I've read most PP engines use short primaries, and the Speedsource cars generally run Motec standalones in the stock ECU case. With ITB's you can likely go higher than that on stock ports though.
0.3 compression increase isn't going to make much difference, maybe a little, but then there's the other issues with RX-8 rotors like apex seal compatability (theirs are shorter). I think the extra lightening probably more than offsets the slight drop in compression. For a really radical side port go for scalloped rotors to increase port timing. |
Unfortunately, its all good fun to dream, but as previously stated, the car will be undriveable on the street. Your exhaust will make your ears bleed, not to mention be completely illegal. You will die of sweat in the summer with no A/C. You'll have sore shoulders from lack of power steering in parking lots. You'll be completely pissed at yourself for getting a heavy clutch in traffic. Your flywheel will be a pain getting used to. With a good size port job, you'll be lucky to push 15mpg on the highway, 12 in the city. Your girlfriend will hate being seen in your car, since theres no dash, no carpet.
What these guys have described is the perfect setup for running in an all out N/A only class for racing. If this is what you want, congrats, your car will be amazingly fun to drive, and also the biggest pain in the butt. Unless of course you have another car to use as a DD, in which case this would be an amazing setup. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just letting you know the truth before you dive right in. Make sure this is what you want so we don't have to post pictures in the lounge when someone drives by your home and sees cobwebs all over the car. |
Originally Posted by Roen
(Post 7512053)
lol @ just a 1.3L......you should read the countless arguments on why the rotary both is and isn't a traditional 1.3L.
Without modifying the engine...the most you'd get with bolt-ons and tuning is topside of 180 whp, with cool temperatures helping you out. |
Originally Posted by TheAbsence
(Post 7512076)
Unfortunately, its all good fun to dream, but as previously stated, the car will be undriveable on the street. Your exhaust will make your ears bleed, not to mention be completely illegal. You will die of sweat in the summer with no A/C. You'll have sore shoulders from lack of power steering in parking lots. You'll be completely pissed at yourself for getting a heavy clutch in traffic. Your flywheel will be a pain getting used to. With a good size port job, you'll be lucky to push 15mpg on the highway, 12 in the city. Your girlfriend will hate being seen in your car, since theres no dash, no carpet.
What these guys have described is the perfect setup for running in an all out N/A only class for racing. If this is what you want, congrats, your car will be amazingly fun to drive, and also the biggest pain in the butt. Unless of course you have another car to use as a DD, in which case this would be an amazing setup. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just letting you know the truth before you dive right in. Make sure this is what you want so we don't have to post pictures in the lounge when someone drives by your home and sees cobwebs all over the car. |
Originally Posted by ka24.ej20
(Post 7512122)
Thanks a lot!! I got your point!! I am just wondering how can people tunning their N/A without ported engine and swap to turbo. Of course, I understand that keeping in stock is the best way to keep my engine longevity. Thanks again!!
And unfortunately, without porting or doing other internal mods, your horsepower gain will be largely insignificant for the money. Without running forced induction, nitrous, or internal modifications (e.g. porting), you could spend over 2 thousand dollars on a full exhaust setup, custom fuel chip, and removing emissions, power steering, A/C, and the interior. All this could get you anywhere from 20-30 horsepower, maybe 20 at the wheel. For this price, you could probably buy a Turbo II with some miles on it, probably not in the best condition, and it will come stock with 20 horsepower more than your tricked out N/A. Might as well have 2 RX-7s :P The point is that I've been where you are, I understand fully where you're coming from, and unless you're building an N/A for a certain class of racing, I've found it to be completely not worth putting money into performance if you're looking for horsepower gains. However, if you want to, don't let me stop you, its entirely up to you. Good luck! ** By the way, coming from your situation, I've decided to buy a used S5 Turbo 7 when I graduate from college and dump loads of performance into, and get it to ~350horse at the wheel. Then I can have 2 7's, one as a daily driver, and one that gets less than 10 miles to the gallon but could torch a Vette. (Not that thats what I'm building it for, I'll build it to have fun with my dad, hes buying an S2k) Have fun man, and I'm glad you're looking so deeply into this before you start throwing money into it, since it can get pricey real quick, and may not yield the gains you thought it would. |
Originally Posted by ka24.ej20
(Post 7512122)
Thanks a lot!! I got your point!! I am just wondering how can people gain their N/A hp without ported engine and swap to turbo engine. Of course, I understand that keeping in stock is the best way to keep my engine longevity. Thanks again!!
If you need more power than that, sell your car and buy a TII. NA rotaries just don't have that performance potential. That's not to say you can't be fast with it. I was third fastest in my HPDE run group with a 170 whp NA FC, next to a BMW 130i and a Spec Miata driven by an instructor. Of course, if every car had an equal driver, my car would be towards the back of the pack. I love picking on Z06's when the driver doesn't know how to drive his car. =P
Originally Posted by Black91n/a
(Post 7512075)
From what I've read most PP engines use short primaries, and the Speedsource cars generally run Motec standalones in the stock ECU case. With ITB's you can likely go higher than that on stock ports though.
0.3 compression increase isn't going to make much difference, maybe a little, but then there's the other issues with RX-8 rotors like apex seal compatability (theirs are shorter). I think the extra lightening probably more than offsets the slight drop in compression. For a really radical side port go for scalloped rotors to increase port timing. 0.3 compression counts if you're trying to go all out, no? We're assuming unlimited resources here (at least, I am.) Seals, you use normal 13B seals but mill the rotors to accept them. If they're both lightened, they can both be revved higher, most likely past the usuable rpm. I was quoting some dyno tests done by Chris Ludwig, making 174 whp with the Speedsource short primary on stock fuel computer. |
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
(Post 7512326)
Cheapest way to make an NA fast. Full T2 swap. Im not sure for your reason in not wanting to swap out for the turbo.
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