VIDEO - Still crappy idle, no response to idle adjustment??
 

I'm still experiencing the bouncing/ surging idle from 1,000 to 1,500 rpms, and I can't seem to even adjust the idle?

I'm turning the screw on the side of the BAC valve and it makes no difference, do i need to jump that initial set coupler or something? I also didn't notice a difference when i unplugged the bac valve, how can i check my timing if i can't get it to idle below 1,000rpms. I even rewired the bac valve w a new connector and redid all of the hoses to and from w/ clamps.

I've tried to set the TPS but it doesn't seem to work...I'll try again.

I'm really tired of this crappy idle, i wish i had the loot to just have a mechanic "fix it"....

heres a video:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...h_101_2683.jpg

Its your TPS. If you are having problems adjusting it.... it might not be in-spec and you may need to replace it. Check the write-ups section of my site (in my sig)

Yeah I had the same problem on my S4, adjusted the TPS like 6 times, never could get it right. Got another one off an NA car, installed it and set it, smoothed right out, no more idle bounce.

Also check the accelerated warmup device (vacuum solenoid on top of intake manifold). Use a pair of pliers to pinch the vacuum hose closed while it's idling. If the idle stabilizes, I suggest removing it entirely. Another thing:....Watch the throttle lever closely with a small mirror to see if it moves (very slightly) while it's idling. I noticed your engine temp is low, perhaps from a weak thermostat. This can affect the thermowax unit on the throttle body. Trapped air in the coolant hose to the thermowax can also cause a fluctuating idle. Run the engine slightly above idle for a few mins with the rad. cap off to clear out trapped air. Pinch off all vacuum hoses one at a time and look for changes in idle.

ok, so i had the palm pilot hooked to the Rtek the other day and was logging this idle condition, and noticed a couple things..

the TPS was shown at 16 the whole time never treally changed at all.

the coolant temp was shown to be close to 200* after like 15 minutes of idling.

I'm gonna try to set the tps again right after running the car, i don't thnk i actaully got to set it before when it was hot. Maybe that would help.

Also as far as that screw on the BAC valve, what would be a good position for to have that set at? ie how many turns from all the way to the right??

From what I heard in the video, it is much more likely a thermowax issue than a tps. The rpms change very little, but rhythmically. The tps reading on your palm pilot may not see the small changes in throttle position due to it's relatively slow baud rate. It might be helpful to place your hand right on the throttle lever to feel if it's moving, or use a mirror and a good light source. Don't forget to pinch off vacuum hoses like I said in my last post, and check for trapped air. Looks like your coolant gauge is inaccurate, not surprising for an fc.

EDIT: Unplug the BAC connector. If the idle still fluctuates, worry about it's screw adjustment later.

ok, so this sunday afternoon I'll go through prcess of :

1) checking the throttle linkage to see if it is moving at all during the pulsation
2)Pinch off various vacuum hoses and see what happens
3)Runniing engine slightly above idle for a couple minutes with rad cap off to bleed collant system ( maybe tell me more about this part)

I had mentioned before, a long time ago, that this all started all of a suddent when cruisin down my road. It didn't used to pulsate like this, but one day just cruisin, I was going into 4th from 3rd at like 3,250 rpms and when I let off of the gas and pushed in the clutch the rpms dropped but then bounced back up again before i let the clutch out, then it started to kinda buck/surge with the clutch in or out until i pulled it down my driveway and shut it off.

The next time i went to start it, it shot to 3,000 rpms ans stayed there until i shut it off after a couple secs like that, it did that a couple times in a row but finally stopped sticking and now it just pulsates.

I have replaced fuel injectors, ECU, fuel filter, spark plugs, various hoses clamps, connectors...

Juast thought i would add those details, something must have happened ( let loose, came undone, cracked, slipped off, broke) to make it start surging like that when it didn't before.

Thank you for all of your help, I really appreciate it.

hah thermowax???? why would that make idle surge? set the TPS with lights and check resistance. NEVER rule out a vacuum leak. hook an air compressor up to the intake like has been shown on this forum in previous posts, listen for a leak. id bet on vacuum leak.

Yeah, I'm hoping for a loose hose, thats kinda what I pictured happening when it just starting doing it, I'll hook up the compressor and pressure test the intake system. Do you have a link to this procedure, or i can just search later, thanks again though for your input..

Bullshit. IF the TPS is reading 16 with a FULLY H0T engine, then just screw the TPS screw til it reads 20 percent, where it belongs. Low baud rate my royal ass.

Pull the plug off the BAC for now and leave it off. At this point it's not clear what the rpms are when you do that. You said the rpms went down. IF the rpms are below 1100 on the PALM (not on the cars tach), then get a timing light out and set the timing. You can jumper the intitial set coupler if you want, but it has NO effect on timing,. It's to put the BAC at a set duty cycle and the BAC plug is off. Mute point.

I'm inclined to agree that this is a water thermowax problem. It's cam probably isn't seperating from the pin and that causes the throttle plate to stay open a minute amount. Enough to cause a fast idle.

By the way, the screw on the side of the BAC isn't going to have any effect if the rpms are over approx 750rpm. It's just a small air bleed screw.

In a *sense* it's a tps problem but only because the fast idle cam isn't coming off the roll pin.

By the way, IF it turns out to be the water thermowax and fast idle cam...........after you have seperated/adjusted them, the TPS will have to be set again ....BECAUSE the throttle shaft has moved when you adjusted the fast idle cam.

From now on forget the BS on setting the TPS using X, y, and Z method. The thing when the engine is fully hot should read the 20 percent you read on the PALM. EXCEPT when the engine is cold and then it will read higher......because the thermowax is doing it's job and opening the throttle plates when the engine is cold so you will have a fast idle. Idle of approx 1000-1300 rpm.

For adjusting the thermowax it's suggested to put the intercooler on the shelf in the garage. In it's place put some PVC tubing b/t the turbo outlet hose to the intercooler to the throttle body 90* inlet hose. I'll try to attach a NZ jpg of what I mean....later.

Here's a jpg of NZ's PVC pipe in lieu of the intercooler arrangement. Removal of the intercooler gives you access to the adjustment screws while the engine is running.

I'm making a lot of assumptions. I'm assuming there is no air leak. Like around a ACV blockoff plate etc. Big assumption.

In the second thermowax pictue................turn that screw all the way clockwise. That should seperate the fast idle cam from the fixed pin, especially if the engine is full hot.

There is no clear picture of the throttle stop screw. It is about where I suggested in the jpg. IT is a small screw with a 8mm jamnut on it. When the engine is full hot there should be no light b/t the screw end and the throttle shaft stop. IF you see air, most likely the thermowax is holding the shaft open a touch.

Or before you start doing anything, stare at the throttle stop screw and the air gap and lift up on the screw that I have an arrow going to saying *TURN CW*, That act should lift the fast idle cam off the roll pin making the throttle plates close completly.

I'm assuming there is a touch of slack in the throttle cable also. Just a tash slack.

Turning that screw all the way cw is NOT the proper way to set a thermowax. That was just to confirm that is the thing causing the problem of a high idle. Later you can set it right per the FSM. You can fudge on the FSM to work in YOUR favor though.

All *HAIL* his royal ass! :worship:

One thing to keep in the BACK of your mind. The ECU will automatically advance the timing when it reaches around 1100 rpm. On a regular car that idles fine at 759 rpm, if you slowly rev it up in the driveway, as you reach around 1100 rpm, the rpms will suddenly advance to around 1300 or so rpm. It's the ECU that is doing that and you can't stop it with the pedal because it advances so fast.

So you need to confirm with the Palm/RTEK2.0 that you have, that the rpms are safely under 1000 rpms. The stock tach CAN be off on some cars by as much as 100rpm. Not all cars, some cars.

I'm just making you aware of this *trait* of the ECU so it does not confuse you. Just anything under the 1000 rpm should be good for setting the timing using a timing light. I've yet to see the install of the initial set coupler make a bit of difference setting the timing.. Effects the BAC duty cycle, but that's about it.

Like I mentioned above, a lot of things are ASS u MED (as in make a ass out of you and me by not mentioning some siqnificant thing).

Even a BAC that is malfunctioning can cause a high idle. Just inserting some gasket paper b/t the bac and the manifold to act as a blockoff can determine if that is a problem ....or not.

A misplaced vacuum line can cause problems. Like the line for the fuel injector bleeds going to a source of vacuum instead of where it's supposed to go. Or a line or two off the oil injectors will cause air leaks. Or not using soft fuel injector grommets at the base of the injectors will cause an erratic idle/high idle. There's other stuff out there also.

But go for the thermowax mal adjustment first along with the idle stop screw.

For grins if you don't have much time today, just get the engine hot and then turn the variable resistor in the rich direction and then back to the lean direction. Listen to hear/see if the idle changes in one direction or the other. It could give you a clue.

No need to bow to my Royal Arse. Most times the problem turns out to be *another thing all together* and this will have been an exercise wasted.

I really, really don't wanna go to work today, but........

Hailer : I have the same problem also on my 90. Can i use the same procedure for the fast idle cam ?

Dumarjo

ok i just got in so i'm gonna have to read through this but it looks like alot of good advice, thanks...i'll post in a lil lit.
THANK YOU

It's worth looking at. On a n/a its a little harder to look at since the throttle body is turned upside down and on the right side.

Just remember, this is just a lot of guessing about things that MIGHT be the problem.

hailers. the original question was about a surging problem. how can a thermowax have anything to do with surging? high idle yes, why surging? (geniune question, cause you know more about it than me). i always attributed surging to tps or vac leak. i didnt think anything on the throttle body would move in a surging motion.

if high idle is the problem. shouldnt the surging be taken care of first?

I'll concede your probably right on the vacuum leak somewhere after the throttle plates.

The up/down and the rpms mentioned reminded me a lot of how if the engine goes above 1100 rpm, the ECU will then advance the timing and thru the advanced timing , the rpms to approx 1300 rpm plus.

On my n/a car I had the two small vacuum lines on the front of the dynamic chamber swapped. Doing that put a vacuum source on the fuel injector air bleed nipple b/t the oil injectors and put a source of air to a vacuum nipple. That caused a hunting idle/crummy idle.

To prove it's not a TPS issue he can just disconnec the TPS when it's doing its up/down.

disconnecting the tps should not change anything for the idle ? (if the tps is not the problem of course).

dumarjo

If you guys would listen to the audio portion of his video you would notice that the idle isn't a "rolling rough idle" which would be more indicative of a vacuum leak. This is a distinct, consistent "on-off" idle with the same amount of rpm change every time. I have worked on countless Hondas with the exact same cyclic idle and every time it was due to trapped air in the cooling system. They use a thermal wax-driven unit similar to our rx7s. They also have a bleeder screw, much like a brake bleeder, to release this trapped air, and when the trapped air is gone and is replaced by a steady flow of coolant, the thermal unit stops cycling. This is why I have pushed the idea 3 times here in this thread. I have yet to see a response from the original poster if he has confirmed his thermowax or not. I also suggested pinching off vac lines, if there is a leak at one end of the rat's nest such as a split vac hose, you would see a change when pinched.

^ Regaurdless if there is trapped air or not, the TPS reading should corrospond with the thermowax adjustment. So say if the thermowax is holding the engine at 1500rpm, the TPS should be giving the correct reading to the ECU for that amount of throttle given. So if there was air in the coolent system and the thermowax was not allowing the engine to come down to idle, you still wouldn't have a problem since the TPS would be telling the ECU what the throttle opening is.

This has happend to me a few times, it was due to the incorrect setting of the TPS, and the dash pot threading its self in and holding the throttle open a bit more. Hi idle is one thing, but a surging hi idle is a combination of things such as the thermowax and TPS. I don't know if you can reach the Thermowax adjustment screw that sits at the bottom of the piston, but if you, push the screw AWAY from the piston and see if the idle drops down. Also make sure there is NOTHING holding the throttle open.

Like I said, TPS and something holding the throttle open such as thermowax or long shot, dash pot(very long shot but happend to me).

I would say even if you fix the HI IDLE portion, you will still have a bouncy cold idle around 1300-1500, where it is now if the TPS is not adjusted correctly. When you are adjust thing the TPS, are you trying to adjust it to 1v while the rpms are where there are? If so, this will only aggravate the issue, fix the hi idle problem and then adjust the TPS.

I agree with Rotaman on one basic point....the bottom line is that the throttle lever needs to be against the throttle stop screw, and that the throttle stop screw is adjusted correctly before any tps adjustments/ diagnostics are made. Under most circumstances the stop screw should never need to be adjusted, it is locked with a nut from the factory. As I listen to his video again, it is even more clear that either the throttle lever is moving very slightly away from the stop screw, or the control unit is seeing an inappropriate reading from the tps at that particular position and possibly sending a different pulse signal to the BAC, I asked in an earlier post for him to disconnect the BAC and watch for change.

As Hailers said, disconnecting the tps should eliminate it's contribution to the bouncing idle, I also re-read this guy's first post where it said that he unplugged the BAC with no change. This still leaves the possibility of the throttle leever moving via the thermowax. I watched the video AGAIN, and the idle speed is only changing +/- 150 rpms. You likely won't see that much movement if you stared at the throttle, but you might feel it with your fingers. It would be easier to bypass the intercooler as Hailers said earlier so you can get a better look at the throttle movements/ adjustments.

I admit I didn't listen to that before or view it. I had to go to WORK to view/hear it.

That's what is called "Cool". Rummmmpf, Rummmpf, Rummmph, Rummmmpf as it revs fairly quick b/t 1500rpm and what? 1700? Up down, up down. Pulsing idle at a set cycle. Always the same up/down/up/down.

I think I'll try to duplicat that tomorrow on my day off. I'd still disconnect the TPS and see what happens. It's almost like when you go to a car that idle just fine, but then reach in there and with your finger push the tps screw in all the way for a Moment then let go. The rev's should change when you do that in/out with the tps plunger. Can't do that on a Turbo car with the intercooler on.

I've seen/heard that pulsing before. I'd almost swear it was when I put the fuel injector air bleed hose on a vacuum nipple on the back of the manifold instead of on one of the *air* nipples.

It's be pretty hard to find a vacuum leak with starter fluid on that high an *idle*.

Be sure to tell us what fixes it. LIke I say, I'll try to dup it tomorrow.

I'm backing off the water thermowax idea since I heard the *Video*. Still worth looking at though. Two pieces of PCV pipe and an elbow inbetween gets the intercooler out of the way.

Hey there. When did this *idle* start doing what it's doing???? Did it ever idle different???

If it idled good once before, and not now, what maint did you do to the car inbetween???

I was thinking back to when this happend to me, the wires in the TPS connector were also shorting out.

If you try to raise the idle to much without ANY adjustment to the throttle position, this will happen. So if you bypass to much metered air or unmetered air, the engine will rev up to a point and bounce like its doing now. I tested this on my engine last year because I was trying to design an electronic cold start but without any adjustment to the throttle opening while rasiing the idle, the engine will eventually bounce right around 1500-1800. So possibly check for vacuum leaks, which I always say with allow the engine to run rough but I have been surprised on many occasions, Also try disconnecting and blocking off the BACv and AWS and air intake nipple for the 2 and see if that helps. This will tell you if one of them are sticking, disconnecting them electronically wont tell you this.

I was just reading the FSM and thought of a couple more ideas. There is a air bypass solenoid valve that is used to assist the BAC during warmup. The valve is located on top of the intake just to the left of the intercooler (pass side). I can see it clearly in the video. It has a 2-wire connector and 2 vacuum hoses. Pinch one or the other hoses closed and see if the idle stabilizes. There is also an air supply valve that is used to increase the idle speed slightly when the steering wheel is turned left or right (p/s load). It is located at the rear of the upper intake manifold and it also has a 2-wire connector. Unplug this connector and see what happens. I noticed you don't have p/s, so if this helps your idle, you can leave it unplugged. This valve makes more sense than the thermowax now that I think of it, as your idle only hunts 150 rpms.

I tried to duplicat this this morning without success. If a vacuum line was taken off it just idled crummy. Some up/down but not like the video and it was the BAC causing the up/down. NOTHING lke the video.

Tell you what though. I played with the water thermowax screw by letting it all the way counterclockwise. The idle picked up and went to the 1100rpm range becacuse the throttle plates open more when that screw is backed off counterclockwise. The engine remains running SMOOTHLY (like yours in the video).

While the rpms did not go up/down in a rythmic fashion, I can't but help thinking you GREENBUDD, NEED to go out and turn this screw all the way CLOCKWISE to get your idle down from the state it's in. Those throttle plates just HAVE to be cracked open a bit. After you do that, then make SURE you set the tps again. Use your RTEK and set it to 20 AFTER the engine gets HOT.

I don't think the author of this thread is reading it anymore.

The car looks decent and sounds pretty good. Keep after it.

That's why I suggested pinching off all vacuum hoses as well as air injection hoses to see if there were any changes. The idle-up valve for power steering has no hose, so disconnecting it would be one way to check it. He removed his p/s. This guy isn't giving us feedback, I'd like to help him fix his problem....it should be simple, as it's not a rough idle, just a hunting idle.

good info. dont mean to thread jack, o yes i do :lol: but i have a NA that has a idle problem. its runing at just over 2000 rpm. it warms up quick but the idle never changes. i have some responce to the AAS screw on the top of the throtle body, can change it about 200 rpm. when i have the AAS screw all the way in so lowest idle i can get which is about 2k the car kind of stuters on start up i have to give it a little gas then it jumps to 2k. i also whent around pinching vac lines with no change. i was messing with the tps and could never get a voltage out of the conector ( nothing more then 1mv ) even when adjusting the tps all the way in and out. but when i got it in it started to click constantly. so i started just playing with it and when i moved the throttle it clicked just once and if i got to a certian point it would start making a clicking noise( like a card in a spoked wheel, almost ) car was a auto converted to a maual. its a 89 GXL. i know very little about messing with the electronic systems but im trying to learn. also your mentioning all the abreveations of stuff and i dont know where to find them what they look like or how to check them. so a little explanation of where the different things can be found would be awsome. Thanks.

[QUOTE=tiresmoke;7001344]good info. dont mean to thread jack, o yes i do :lol: but i have a NA that has a idle problem. its runing at just over 2000 rpm. it warms up quick but the idle never changes. i have some responce to the AAS screw on the top of the throtle body, can change it about 200 rpm. when i have . ************************************************** *************************

IF you have a engie that is running at 2000 rpm and never changes, then you have throttle plates that are not fully shut. Why? Got me. Nobody would write that and not have checked to see if the throttle cable was toooooo tight and holding the throttle open.

Actually having a n/a makes it easier. PUll the intake duct off the throttle body and look at the three throttle plates to see if they are cracked open a touch or not. They probably are. Do this with a fully HOT engine so the water thermowax isn't the reason the plates are cracked open.

Anytning that is holding that high a *idle* must have the throttle plates cracked. Well almost the only thing.

The plates don't have to be cracked open very much to get to two grand.

IF they are cracked open just a bit, then make sure the water thermowax is adjusted right per the FSM that is free and online. Fuel section of the FSM. It's hard to access that device on a non turbo without removing the throttle body in my humble opiinion.

iv already checked the throtle cable and loosend it up so it actualy has slack in it so i know its not that. and what is FSM?

You can close the plates further if they are held open by turning the TB linkange clockwise from the front, the throttle stop is on a stiff spring so you have some play in the other direction.

Remove the dashpot from the rear of the TB, its the brass round looking thing on the left sticking out like a sore thumb when you remove the intake elbow. After that you can easily get your finger behind there to push the cam screw on the bottom of the thermowax piston away from the thermowax to see if the idle drops.

FSM is Factory service manual.

This is what I always say to, on a few occasions though, its been vacuum leaks and the engine still runs smooth. Weird. Im guessing it depends on how rich the engine is running?

ok the intake has 3 ports in it. the botom is on the main shaft and the top two are on a seperate shaft. the top two stay just barly cracked but if i turn the shaft by had and shut them it has no effect on the rpm's. also a note before i did the conversion it ran at about 1k rpm. and this time when i fired it up it wandered around 1600 to 1700 rpm before making it to 2k. and when it got warm is actualy got faster up to 2.2k i took some pics of the thing i think your talking about. im visual i need pics. so i think you want me to take the thing off and there is a cam internaly that i need to push that efects the idle ( controls the choke)?

They should be completly closed. The primary should be held open a little.

The first pic is the thermowax and the second pic is the dashpot which stops the plates from snapping shut and allows them to close slowly

TIRESMOKE.......You have a non turbo. You can't really adjust or see the fast idle cam, thermowax etc unless the throttle body is removed in my very humble opinion. Although I have gotten under the car and with a long screwdriver TRIED to adjust it. It ain't happening for me.

BUT, you say the upper two throttle plates are cracked a touch??? Yes. Tell you what, on a series four NON TURBO there is a STOP SCREW that is out in the open on the front right side of the throttle body that can be adjusted. Look for it. Back it off.

The original thread starter done did gone away.

FSM is the Factory Service Manual that can be downloaded from this site if you go to the FAQ at the beginning of this site. Look under MANUALS

You can see everything, the problem is getting to everything. The cam screw as I call it, located on the bottom of the piston of the thermowax you can get to if you remove the dashpot and turn the screw by hand. The other screw which I tihnk is the fast idle screw, I Can't remember, but I think that is the one that you may not be able to get too.

If the TOP TWO PLATES are cracked open a touch, find the screw I'm pointing to in RED in the attached jpg. Loosen the jamnut and back off the screw a touch til the plates close. Then see if it idles lower or not.

Your problem could be a totally different thing. Just guessing since you said they were cracked open.

I assume this is a NON TURBO engine.

I assume you know the outer set of the two throttle plates are spring loaded to full open with a warm/hot engine and it's the inner two plates I'm talking about. NOT the outer two. They should be full open with a hot engine (outter two).

a vacuum leak can very well make idle surge. it happened on my TII, along with a bad tps. it was doing the exact same thing. a vacuum leak can also give u a smooth very high idle. i accidentally left a big vacuum line open on the back of my LIM and when i started the car it idled at 3k, but it idled smoothly. the original poster hasnt responded if he has checked for vacuum leaks or not so everyones just guessing still. i still say vacuum leak or tps. how long does it take to check these OP? jeez.

also. whys everyone on the thermowax horse? it doesnt cause surging. why would air in the system cause the thermowax to go in and out that fast? thermowax works off heat. most likely the cause of the surge is the cause of most of the high idle. so why concern yourself with the high idle when the other is more obvious. besides, the high idle could be cause by alot of stuff.

Well I said i waouldn't have a chance until SDunday afternoon, it's actuallymore like Sunday night but I just got back from Manhattan, I live in NJ like 5 mins from Pennsylvania, I have been stuck in NYC for the past 4 days for a seminar for my job, I'm not trying to ignore you guys i just haven't had the time, but i just put on some normal clothes so i'll go out and let it run while i pich some hoses off and what not.....

I will replace the IC w a pvc section as soon as I get a chance for better trouble shooting access, please just bear with my and don't jack my thread, I really appreciate all of the input and I'll post my results when i get back inside.

and yeah it used to idle fine before that day when it started as described in my quote....

Thanks
NJGB

Yes vacuum leaks can cause a "rolling idle". Again, listen to the guy's video with the volume cranked up. You can hear a distinct on-off sound as if a solenoid or valve was opening and closing inappropriately. A very consistent 150 rpm change.
I'd put $50 it's not a vacuum leak.

You have obviously not worked on Hondas as long as I have. They have a very similar thermal wax idle control. Countless times I have bled trapped air from those cars and instantly resolved the problem. A bubble of trapped air can prevent the wax pellet from expanding from hot coolant, positioning the idle cam on the high step. I backed off a little on the thermowax idea after I thought about it. The idle only changes 150 rpm. A properly adjusted thermowax can change the speed 1000 -1500 rpm. Like I said earlier, the air solenoid for the p/s made more sense, as it adds very little idle speed increase.

so i just went out and jump started it, it fires up and rises to 2,000 rpms and just purrs for like 15-20 secons and then it drops to 1500 and bounces 150 - 200 rpms just like in the video.

i just wanted to make sure i mentioned that it does idle smoothly, though high, for the first 15-20 seconds but then startes to pulsate like in the mideo. I seems like the rpms want to stay but something keeps making it drop down...

so, i piched the air hoses for the BAC Valve and it didn't make any difference as well as what few vacuum hoses i can reach or see as it is getting dark and rainy here already..., i can't reach the air supply valve right now with IC still mounted, is that the valve your reffering to with the power steering system?

I didn't remove my p/s, the car didn't have it when i got it from the previous owner, i thought maybe it just ddn;t come with it, isn't than optional for TII from 87? But i idid remove the a/c pump and bracket, might that have something to do with it?

I'm trying to make some connection between the current bouncing/cyclic idle, the way it all of sudden started that one day and the fact that it idles perfectly smooth at 2,000 when i start it for the for 15 secs but then starts surging......though now that i think about it i pretty much only start the car once when trying to make adjustments,

like I'll go out like i just did now and start it and it does exactly what i described tonight and i'll shut it off and come inside to ask for more ideas or to sulk about it..ha, but seriously, maybe i should try to start it again after its warmed up and see if it idles smooth again for th efirst 15 secs or if it immediately starts to bunce..

so i'm gonna replace the IC with PVC and try to investigate more, i guess disconnect the tps or move it to see if it changes, maybe pinch more vac lines( which were replaced right before i get the car when the rebuilt motor was swapped in), what specific things should i do/check??
thanks, you guys make it easier to keep at it..

We thought you had disappeared haha. Before you make any adjustments to your tps, try unplugging it first. If the idle stabilizes, then we can suspect that it's out of adjustment or maybe a "dead spot" in it. If it's still hunting, then remove the intercooler, find the p/s assist solenoid, it's on the back of the upper intake, has 2 wires, looks like a small "can", and has no vacuum hoses. Unplug it. Re-install the intercooler, and fire it up. If that fixes it, leave it unplugged since you don't have p/s. If the idle still hunts, bypass the intercooler as planned so you can watch or feel the throttle for movement. Another thought, if the "rat's nest" as it is often called, hasn't been removed, try unplugging the vacuum solenoids one at a time. Each solenoid connector has a different color, there are normally 4 or 5 of them together on one bracket near the oil filler pipe. Let us know if one of those makes a change.

No I haven't dissapeared, just been way too busy, I 've been going on only four hours of sleep a night and thats too little for me, some of the gusy on here are funny, like "OMG how long does it take to check these things!!" It's gonna take me a bit since I wasn't even in the same state as my car....

But thanks for the suggestions, depending on what time I get home tonight I might stop at Home Depot and pick up the PVC parts. I can't even get to my TPS without the IC removed, so I think I'll just do away with the IC for this entire troubleshoting process. Does any one have a list of parts for this piping, pvc diameter, what elbows?

So:
1) Construct and install PVC IC replacement
2) Start car and allow to warm up then unplug TPS and note if there is any difference
3) Pinch hoses on the Air Bypass Solenoid Valve( what you referred to as the AWS earlier in this thread right?) and note any changes
4) Unplug the Air Supply Valve Solenoid Valve( what your reffered to as the p/s assist solenoid??) and note any changes
5) Unplug the color coded vacuum solenoids one by one and note any changes


Just a note, the BAC Valve, Air Supply Valve and the Air Bypass Solenoid valve have all been tested for the proper resisatnce and 12v click and all passed previously, after this idle condition had came about..

Am I missing anything, or reffering to the wrong parts??Should all of the changes be made while the engine is running or unhook and then start back up??

Thanks, now I am off to work again, be home later tonight to read any replies.

Also thanks Hailers for the pictures regarding the IC removal and location of those screws. i appreciate everyones help, except for those impatient guys, jk

Hope everyone has a good day.
NJGB

You've got it right. Do those things and report back to us your findings so we can help get you back on track. Also, it's generally a good idea to turn the ign switch off before unplugging connectors to prevent any voltage "spikes" from potentially harming the control unit, pretty unlikely though.

Well I just bought the pvc pipe and two 90' elbows this morning, it was like 5 for 5' of pipe and 1.50 for each elbow. Maybe after work I'll have the time to install the pvc setup, if it isn't raining.

Does anyone know if there is a write up for this procedure, if not I'll take pics and make one for referance sake.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...d/101_3124.jpg

for what the he#$%^^& its that for?(pcv pipe and elbow)