SAFC, Rtek7, and stage 2 turbo
 

I am shooting for 290 ~ 300 to the wheel. I plan on using either 680cc injectors and 850cc secondaries a walbros pump, and fmic. Will this be safe to run on the SAFC if tuned right.

i'd save your money, dont buy the safc, dont buy the injectors, get a better pump (denso comp pump) and get a RRFPR from bell...thatll put you pretty damn close to your desired numbers, then save some more money and get a standalone. piggyback is a waste of money if you plan on getting anywhere later on down the line.

I did figure that was the best route. I want to go stand alone but its so close to my budget

yeah i'd just wait...hell that IS what im doing, as soon as i get my check im getting that bell regulator, and maybe a few other goodies, but with the regulator and a good pump, you can support 15 lbs. no problem, and thats what i creep to, so its perfect to play around with untill i got some serious cash saved up to get standalone and porting done.

Isn't this going to make it run really rich? You'd need some sort of fuel computer to pull together the added fuel going into the engine, right?

I thought I need a linear fuel regulator 1:1.

no you need to tune the RRFPR, its not just a bolt on.

but fuel pressure is suppose to rise 1 psi for every pound of boost.

Pressure calculation: the fuel pressure required increases with the square of the boost pressure ratio:
Example: 6 psi boost is a pressure ratio of 1.41. With stock fuel pressure of 36 at zero boost, than:

Needed fuel pressure = ( PR2 x 36) + boost = (1.412 x 36) + 6 = 77.5 psi



http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages...struction.html

you didn't read that page right.

OEM System Regulator: diagram 2022 is linear

Aftermarket Turbo/Supercharger Regulator : 2025 non linear

In theory if you had the rtek7 chip you wouldnt need the safc, I say in theory because i havent seen any post about the v1.5 yet but im pretty sure those guys wouldnt release a bum product :)

Rising rate FPR's are a crude band-aid for injectors that are too small. Stick with a linear rate FPR and get the right injectors for your goal. A set of four 720cc/min injectors will be adequate for 300rwhp, with a bit of headroom for further mods.

Stand alone first. Stand alone and tuning can get you the numbers you want safely. I always hear people on this forum talking about saving up money to get a stand alone after getting a upgraded turbo and some used fuel injectors of ebay. This is a bad idea if you ask me.
2 things kill our cars. Clogged/old fuel injectors and overheating. Never use used fuel injectors and if you do send them to RC to be cleaned and flow tested. Spending a couple of extra bucks in the right areas save you thousands in engines and down time.

won't 4 720cc make my idle high and rich.

When u run the FPR do u run it on the same line as the stock regulator? Do have have to remove the stock regulator?

dont get a rising rate FPR. get some injectors and an safc and you'll be fine.

of course its always better to get a standalone, but you'll be fine with injectors and a safc

whats wrong with an RRFPR? just for my knowledge.. i dont know much about them.

theres absolutely nothing wrong with it, and its hardly a CRUDE bandaid.

- its safe
- you dont need to waste your money on a piggyback/injectors (you will need bigger injectors later on anyways if you plan on pushing any decent numbers)
- once you get a standalone you can still use it.

i dont understand why some people will waste their money on an safc, injectors, and tuning when they are just going to have to do it ALL over again when they get a standalone.

with the $259 model you run it along with your stock FPR, to get a base, but with their new model im pretty sure it replaces your stocker.

Cranking up the fuel pressure far beyond the pressure things were designed to work best at, just to force more fuel through, is crude. It's the easy way around undersized injectors, and the easy way is seldom the best way. That's a dangerous assumption. It does not make you set-up safe, there are many other considerations. A RRFPR doesn't need a fuel controller? How does something that completely changes the fuel curve not not a fuel controller? How is that not crude? Simply jacking up the fuel pressure under boost is going to result in mixtures richer than they need to be. You have no control of the amount of fuel injected through the rev range. To accurately compensate for the fuel pressure change you need a fuel controller. If you have one of those then you should just spend your money on bigger injectors instead of a new FPR.

You also have to seriously consider pump capacity. A FPR doesn't create pressure, it simply restricts fuel flow. The pump still has to be able to make the higher pressure at the required flow. At higher pressure the pump cannot flow as much. Perhaps it's because they want their engine to run safely and efficiently. Perhaps it's because they have no plans to get a standalone.

who said anything about "Cranking up the fuel pressure far beyond the pressure things were designed to work best at" not me...

you like jacking/cranking things up dont you? there you go again, once again i didnt say anything about JACKING up the boost...

and NO you dont need a piggyback for a RRFPR, you dont just bolt the shit on, you TUNE it... thats why you need a pump to support the higher fuel pressure, walbro's get maxed out i know that for a fact, a denso pump on the other hand is plenty.

but hey if you wanna spend a ridiculous amount of money on un-neccesary things then go for it, no one is stoping you.

im not going to say anything else about it because there will always be someone like you, saying just because you dont like it, means you shouldnt do it...:rolleyes:

That's what a rising-rate FPR does! It increases fuel pressure far more than a linear-rate one does. Instead of keeping fuel pressure at fixed amount above manifold pressure, the pressure differential increases as boost increases. It's the higher fuel pressure that forces more fuel though the injectors. What did you think it was doing?

:confused: Neither did I. I'm talking about fuel pressure...

You cannot "tune" an engine with a regulator, that's just silly. All you can do is set the static pressure. A RRFPR totally changes the fuel delivery curve and hence mixtures. You may get the mixtures you want at some points but it'll be richer than it should be at others. That's why you should have a fuel controller.

You may be happy with overly rich mixtures, bit I certainly wouldn't be.

ah well, i dont feel like arguing about it...we both gave him 2 different ways to do it, let him decide which one is best. if you dont want big numbers, yeah sure go with a piggyback, get yourself some injectors and keep it at that. however if you want big numbers with a standalone the way i suggested is going to save you a bunch of money and time.

its really up to you how you want to set up your car.

oh and i sure as hell hope wherever you take your car to get tuned will have something to tune it with, not just through the FPR. unless you do it yourself.

If you go with a stand alone, you won't want a RRFPR, that'll just make tuning it harder.

If you're sticking with the stock ecu and going with a hybrid, for fuel I'd recommend.

4 x 720cc injectors
walbro/fd fuel pump
SAFC (wired via pressure sensor for almost sane gas economy)

NZ already hit this many posts ago.

Honestly I think RRFPR's are ok, even if crude. However, you'll still want a safc or something similar to fine tune it.

but why not 680cc and 850cc setup

It's a lot easier to tune the safc if you're using equal sized primary and secondary injectors.

Wait for the RTek7 v2.0, u will be able to use the 720cc injectors w/o a fuel controller.

Yeah?

Correct, view this thread for more details:

http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...5&pagenumber=1

wow i wonder how he's pulling all this off, the S4 ecu is total crap, and there was/still is only one option really, and thats to run standalone if you want to get anywhere with an S4. S5 ecu on the other hand is far superior to the S4 ecu and you can do all kinds of stuff to it, i think he will definitely create some wonderful things with the S5 as he is with the S4 already.

thats makes the RRFPR way of doing things even better if and when he does release a chip to allow it to run 720's. :p:

i wouldn't say the s4 ecu is CRAP, because it definitely gets the job done. however, the S5 ecu seems to be much better and i am really looking forward to his chip upgrade to see what all he can do with the S5 since its more advanced.

well it is in a sence, its tuning abilities are close to none, other than what henrik is doing here with his chip.

What difference does that make? You'll still have no way of compensating for the increased fuel pressure (and hence increased fuel flow). I'm quite sure the Rtek7 chip will be set up for stock fuel pressure only.

dude thats what air fuel meters and a fuel gauge is for, its a mechanical way of doing the same exact shit, ok? and last time i checked electronics FAIL, mechanical doesnt.

why are u calling the s4 ecu crap...hundreds of people run the s4 ecu with no problems.

it does its job running a stock FC, once you start modding it only goes downhill from there, you cant tune it... its either keep the boost below 10lbs. or get a standalone.

So with your magical regulator you can adjust the fuelling up or down at specific rpm increments? Of course not, it's simple mechanical device that has one adjustment only.

It makes no sense at all for you to claim something as crude as a RRFPR forcing more fuel though stock injectors is better than a fuel controller and bigger injectors, and then turn around and say you should chuck out the "crap" stock ECU and replace it with a far more sophisticated standalone.
That's absolute nonsense, and I think you know it. If that's what you really think, why aren't you buying a carb instead of a standalone?

10psi-U can run more than 10psi on the stock ecu.EASY.

so can I hook up the FPR IN LINE WITH THE STOCK ONE.

You only need one FPR.

if the s4 is crap because it isnt tuneable then the s5 is just as much crap. i think you could do just about anything to the s4 ecu as far as ecus go. thats what henrick is doing, just adding on/teaking the code. i dont think youll be able to do anything more with the s5 ecu that you cant do with the s4, cause if your as smart as henrik you can do just about anything you want with either ecu.

Sometimes the truth is not what you want to hear

http://mazda.a-spec.ca/

"engine control computer speed was doubled and operation upgraded for faster response to throttle inputs."

Sometimes the truth is not what you want to hear

http://mazda.a-spec.ca/

"engine control computer speed was doubled and operation upgraded for faster response to throttle inputs."

deltr0n i'm beginning to think you're not very smart wit this whole modding/tuning thing..

Yeah, but more people own 87-88 models and tuning is a safer compared to the 89-90(higher compression.

Blow a 89-90 model and tell me how faster ecu responses will locate you a spare 89-90 rotor housing.

Hahaha, so true Eraumazda.

its easier for the safc, but wat about the hks f-con with gcc? better to go equal sized primary and secondaries or smaller primaries with bigger secondaries?

eric.

Um... "The BEGI fuel pressure regulators are designed to ADD FUEL to cars modified by turbo..."

He's got the fuel taken care of already. All he needs to do if the car is properly tuned is to run the car at the desired fuel pressure, which will go up ONE psi per ONE pound of boost, to compensate for the additional pressure in the intake manifold, and inject the same (well close to the same) amount of fuel for a specific injector duration.

Has anyone actually used one of those Bell RRFPRs? All I hear is bad juju with them. I bought one for my 99 GSXR750 that I made a turbo kit for and it wasn't on there a week before I had to take it apart and fix it. Worked great for 2 days and broke again.. Fuel pressure wouldn't stay still. It was actually loading my pump down.

I finally chucked it (and it was brand new) and bought the more expensive Vortech SFMU. Havent had a single problem since. The bike is running great. Guess you get what you pay for.

Regards,
Mike Montalvo
digital tuning, inc
www.pocketlogger.com

Is there any reliable information on the web regarding the setup of the Apexi SFC?