which ECU are you using?? if you use the N370 one it will drive the s5 EOMP
- but without an EOMP,, it will limp

if you have an ECU that doesnt care ( N 318/332 ) then i advise using the current s4 NA timing cover , OMP ( and sump ) and modding it for a drain pipe,, ala modded 12a timing cover

s5 EOMP is never cheap to find,, often faulty ( just clean the position sender ! ) and insists you use the s5 ECU or only late generation aftermarket ECU's
( else there is a standalone EOMP controller to use with s4 ECU's and also old micros etc )
---

the 19 mm pulley bolt is the one i have warned you about in the post above
at the very minimum the engine must be slanted back before undoing this bolt
( and definitely never undone with the motor horizontal )

it WILL require about 3 minutes under the end of a propane torch
when you see the lock sealant smoke,, the bolt will undo if you sleeve a small pipe onto a breaker bar socket
( else the force required to undo it can potentially bend the crank snout very slightly and easily breaks quality sockets )


jig the rear flywheel to a sturdy gearbox pattern hole using a chain and bolts

Keep up with the pics, I'm interested in this. Picking the gearbox model is easy OK.

If it has a rib around the bellhousing on the US passenger side and a V shaped mount is S5NA, if it has no rib and has a flat mount its S4NA. If it has lots of ribs its TII of some sort and good.

Wait, did you drive this car home with no oil feeding the turbo? If so, that turbo is gone.

S5 Tii ECU and harness. I'm good there. Please clarify about having to tilt the engine - How and why is good.

Will take more pictures, today, to catch up on progress.

Nope. Didn't drive it home. U-Haul from S. FL, to here, then Flat-trailer from the shop, to the house.

Now an official *RE*BUILD thread...
 

Since this has transformed into a build thread, instead of just the regular debugging kind, I thought I'd catch up with the whole spectrum of pics.

Here's the MAIN directory of all the content, thus far (up to this afternoon): S5 Tii. You'll see the original stuff, plus 3 directories from the 21st, 22nd and today. This is where everything is being uploaded to, since my server has MORE than enough space, to accommodate.

With that, here's the next wave of pics:

Where I left off, last-night:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05801.JPG

Current state of engine (With the S5 Tii water-pump housing pinned on):
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05791.JPG

New Lamco oil adapter:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05798.JPG

The new S5 Tii front cover:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05793.JPG

Which of these is the Tii pan? Pic 1, or 2?

#1
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05797.JPG

#2
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05796.JPG


Lastly, how can I get THIS fucker to work in place of the OEM water thermo sensor? The threading is the same, and the housing is wide enough to accommodate, but the 'V' at the top of the probe prohibits the fitting from biting:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05800.JPG



I was reading another thread, and Aaron posted a valid point, in that thread: Why not just tap and thread the pan, instead of pulling the front cover...

Good question, though I'll need to know how to get the S4 NA OMP to work with the S5 Tii ECU.

Any suggestions?

thats what i did to my 6 port turbo, i tap the oil pan, but if you have the s5 t2 front cover and oil lines that will be easier, since you dont have to remove the whole oil pan to do the tap and thread, to switch the front cover just remove the bolts from the cover and only remove the front bolts of the oil pan and switch the cover.

Did the pics i send you from the s5 t2 omp help you?

A little, yeah.

Removal of the front cover is nothing near that simple. Sure, you remove the 6-or-so bolts that hold it in place, but you still would have to get it around the main pulley.... There-in lay my problem.

I do have the S5 T2 cover, and the oil lines, but am lacking the stupid EOMP, and can't push myself to pulling the engine to lay it on it's ass to pull the pulley.

So, I was looking at just replacing the water-pump housing, onto the S4 NA front cover....

Not so easy. The bottom-most bolt hole on the S4 cover pushed the bolt, all the way through and has a flat-faced exit hole, where-as the S5 is capped, only allowing the bolt to impale only so far, until it interferes with the covered bolt-hole...

NTM it's domed, on the backside, which hits the S4 front cover.

Here's a pic:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05802.JPG

The top one is the S4 NA and the bottom, the S5 T2.

Can't I just drill it out and grind it flat so that the housing doesn't interfere with the front cover, and the bolt pushes a little further?

Okay... REctified the S5 Tii housing > S4 NA front cap problem...

Measured the height of the S4 bolt-lip, compared it to the height of the Tii, grind off difference in height (-/+ 6/8") and an crispy angle for clearance And then VOILA! Like swimwear!

Cross-section view of the grind:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05804.JPG

Topo view:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05805.JPG

Angled View:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05806.JPG

Final result!

S5 Tii Waterpump housing on an S4 Tii Front Cap!
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-23/DSC05803.JPG


Since I'm going to probably NOT swap out the front housing - given the BS involved with getting that fraggin' main pulley off, and the lack of an S5 Tii EOMP, I'm gonna hafta look into the nouns of TnT-ing the oil pan for return.

Being that I have 2 separate pans (3, including the one, on the car, currently) is there a specific place I should TnT it?

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/pulley.htm

you can get around the remove and tilt engine if you brace the clutch peddle to the floor

if you run the s5 ECU without a functioning EOMP,, its going to drive for 5 mins, before going limp,, from there it will not rev past 4k and will not boost

-- you have been told

you NEED a functioning EOMP for that ECU,, no ifs, no buts

the ONLY way around that is a rtek ecu ,, or a full rewire back to s4 wiring and ecu ,, or other full aftermarket ECU



you need to make the decision: s5 ecu or not
if yes,, then you MUST search down a functional EOMP ,,, yours have been sold off already cause the rest of USA is already onto that one


if the answer is or not
then,, go ahead,, mech OMP and drain anywhere you wish , water water pump and oil line routing you please,, as long as it flows


myself,, if i didn't already have quick and cheap access to another EOMP unit ,, would go aftermarket ECU ,, as there is many wins to be had there over the stock troublesome rubbish


as for the drain into sump,, been there,, done that,, the timing cover method is far superior
- it wont weep as welds or threads are above the sump level
it wont smoke on high G corners,, like the sump one will,, as its forcing sump oil backwards up the drain pipe under hard cornering

Awesome! You are, the man (The irony is that I JUST heard the same little tid-bit, maybe 30mins ago, from, "xboxthug13b."

So....

I have the S5 Tii front timing cover, He's got the EOMP, so all I need now is to dig out the impact gun and take that pulley off!

What's the significance of putting the clutch down? Is putting it in neutral accomplishing the same feat?

pushing in the clutch loads the E shaft forwards so that when you undo the nut the spacer will not slip back and allow the torrington to slip behind it

it accomplishes the same trick as working on the motor when its vertical
-- eliminates chances of the dreaded torrington pinch


BTW,, was your turbo LIM match ported to suit the 6 p block???


PS -- propane torch will heat the pulley bolt up enough to drastically lessen the force required
if you use too much force,,the risk is a tiny bend to that thin end of the crank,, and this will make the timing signal wander back and forth
( as the bend affects the dizzy drive )

Going to check the LIM today.

Today's tasks: Pull and check LIM, Pull Turbo back off again, remove waterpump housing (again), remove all front cover bolts and prep for removal.

you might as well take the engine out. only about 20-30min away from that. then you can get it all cleaned up/fixed put back together the correct way

No cherry-picker, here, ATH. If I lived closer to the shop, I'd've just left it there.

Secondarily, Id' need to do all kinds of other crap, like removing the trans, etc. to get it out. So it's better off to piece-meal, than all-in-one.

Idyllically, though, you are correct. It WOULD be easier to just yank it out, but. *shrug*

Damned Rain.... Can't get shit done until A) the rain stops, or; B) I clear out half of the garage (Riding mower, Golf Cart, 4-wheeler, a SHIT-TON of spare FC parts...

Course, I think option 'A' has to occur before option 'B' can.

Anyone know if it's humanly possible to yank that pulley w/ a breaker bar, or will the engine just turn over - there-in solidifying the need for an impact, ATH?

you can use the starter method but it is risky. put your breaker bar on the pulley and rotate the engine until the bar is resting on the driver's side frame rail. bump the starter with clutch pressed in and hope the breaker bar doesn't fly somewhere that you don't want it to. i've done it this way before when i had no air compressor present and it worked just fine.

Hm. No shit. Hadn't thought of that one.

NICE ONE, BROTHA!

WOOOOO HOOOOOO!

Well, thanks to that last but of insightful advice, the new housing is ON!

The first bump I saw the bar bounce on the padding I'd put on the fender, the second bump: nothing.

So, erring on the side of caution, I had my fiance sit in the car, holding the clutch in while I pulled the bolt out. Caught on the threads was the pusher, behind it, and the bigger around spring (I noticed that the pusher has a slotted tab on it. Is this an orientation tab or ?). NTM that I forgot to pull the front oilpan bolts, so I had to fight THEM for an eternity...

So now, the new housing is on, but covered due to the mysterious lack of any of my sealants. So tomorrow, I go get RTV and maybe some vac lines for the EOMP that's on it's way!

Just out of curiosity, does that clutch HAVE to be pushed in the entire time, from 19mm bolt off, to on, or just while the major torquing is being done?

PIC:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-24/DSC05825.JPG


Gigetty, gigetty, gigetty.

I thought that you dont have to press the clutch in if you are going to change out the front cover. The torrington bearings pushes front thrust plate which is against the front cover, changing out the front cover, the bearing will not have anywhere to push against.

You only need to push the clutch in if you dont want to change the front cover. Like changing out the thermo pellet in the crankbolt. Fixing a fallen torrington bearing, you would have to take out the front cover.
Correct me if I am wrong in any way. My memory sometimes sucks :P

You almost there man a few more days and youll have it going

Does the thermo pellet have a specific orientation for re installation.

Okay...

Went to Advanced, earlier, got mah stuff. got home, hand turned some oil through the newly removed turbo (no shaft play or housing interference, but un/f my little, dingy-ass, emergency compressor didn't have enough psi to turn it)...

Pulled LIM.... Here's the pic:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-25/DSC05828.JPG

And the pic 'BlackKnight' posted on Pg1



Anyone wanna comment? The LIM DOESN'T have 6-port holes on it, that I can see, but will get a better idea, once I scrape all of the gasket shit off.

As well, when I pulled the turbo, I noticed that the gasket looked a little odd, in comparison to the RB that came with.

Anyone know the difference (Bottom one came off the car, top one came WITH the car)?
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-25/DSC05826.JPG



Addintionally, is there any harm in pulling the 6-port sleeves out, straight away and then port the LIM or is that bad/ a dumb idea?

So! Here's the update on TODAY's progress (addendum to the above):

After I got the Tii front cover and water-pump housing on:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-26/DSC05829.JPG

After pulling the turbo and replacing UIM (pic, previous):
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-26/DSC05830.JPG

The modified coolant fitting to finish the coolant > turbo deal and the oil > turbo adaption:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-26/DSC05832.JPG

Where I ended, for the night:
http://www.utistunts.com/DbA/S5%20Tii/9-26/DSC05834.JPG

All I need now is a fitting the size of the bolt in my Lamco, and a line to run to the turbo!!!

Gigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettyg igettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygi gettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygig ettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygige ttygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygiget tygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigett ygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigetty gigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettyg igettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigettygigetty.. ...

! - peddle needs to be on the floor all the time to totally eliminate risk of pinch
-- the crank is pushed forwards relative to the front stat,, taking out all the float,, timing cover on or off has no bearing on the float

-you was warned-
i would be making sure there is some float in that shaft if i was you
( prise bar through the inspection cover for gearbox and observe movement at the front pulley )
if there is none,,,, you have fucked up badly and it HAS to come OUT
no if no buts,, read the link

2- exhaust gaskets,, one is for the 6P ( pressed serrated cheap looking one ) ,, one for the turbo ( the ss shim one )
the difference is in the ability to take heat,, obviously the SS one is better
the small hole that changes down at the bottom is to do with the EGR/ACV routing being opposite in these motors
disregard it if yours is now a "non emmisions " spec , just go the turbo one

3-. ditch the 6 p sleeves and then weld up the casting reliefs on the face of the turbo LIM
have the flange faced off,, and use a 6p gasket to mark out the pattern onto the turbo LIM
open up the common areas with the die grinder ,, all as pictured in my posts

if you do not fill, face and file the LIM,, it may bolt up,, but will have huge vac leaks as the casting reliefs in the turbo LIM happen to be over the 6 ports


reading first is going to save you much trouble,, please take the time !

read: slow down, breathe , read and do it right,, once !

1) The peddle was all the way to the floor, on loosening and extraction, and will be on replacement. From all the links that I've read, the only that's the only time that there's any interaction with the journal and/ or bearing;

2) Yup. Solved that one when I looked at the hole on the engine and compared it to the whole on the Tii manifold. Called and talked to Alex for verification. (He actually solved this one, for me). Yup. I'm non-emissions;

3) While on the phone, we talked about the sleeves and from the manual's diagram, he opted that I just leave them in the 'off' position (angled to that the opening is AWAY from the housings - the normal 'closed' position). We also determined that since the LIM isn't ported yet (can't find ANY of my porting/ grinding bits and Kevin's are all broken from his WG porting escapade), that there wouldn't be any air actually channeled anywhere, anyway, even if they were 'open' or removed. AS well, the LIM is seated fully against the 6-port sleeves, ATM, without any vac leaks detected... Will check after first-fire... If the LIM is ported to 6-port, and the sleeves are removed, does/ will it have any affect on the low-end power delivery, or just air-flow while under boost?


Now, the standing question remains: How in the FUHK do I go about TIGHTENING the hub bolt back on? I had the AWESOME advice about the fender and breaker-bar, but now that I'm going the opposite direction, how should I get it back on, tight? Can I hold the pulley and ratchet it back down until the engine moves, then just start it or what?

LOL. Bumpstart: While I can normally translate, fairly well, what you're explaining, sometimes it's a bit cryptic.