rx-8 engine into rx-7
 

Its the weekend and I finally have some time off, plus its like minus 5 outside , so time for some internet..
Im wondering what the current status on putting the rx-8 renesis engine into older rx-7's, particuarly second gens.. one of my cars

Ive done a search thru the net and havent ran across anything definate yet.
maybe Im looking in the wrong place.

Is there a conversion, total package, available? I mean engine, trans, all accesories, intake, wiring harness, ecu, etc ?

I like the second gens original systems, but as the years go by, parts are wearing out, repairs are increasing and it would be nice to have at least the option of dropping in the all-new rx-8 powerplant.

Have I missed the boat , and maybe they are already available? any info is appreciated..

also, if it isnt yet available, any guesses on the drop in cost for total package {base, stock installation, no mods} I would guess at least 6-7 k

thanks all

my message posted twice. I hit ' submit reply' and 'web site not responding' popped up, so i pressed submit again and now its on twice.. hmmmn

I asked about this a couple of months ago also. As far as I know noone has done such a conversion, however I would be very intested in it given the opportunity. I'm sure it can be done, but like you said, it wouldnt be cheap, at least until, we get more people totalling their Rx-8. lol, jk...The crate renesis is like $5k so I've heard.

You're not looking in the wrong place. There is no Renesis to FC 'conversion kit'. Not sure about the availability of Renesis crate engines, but a kit of this kind would be completely unprofitable for any company trying to market it.

And even if you did drop in a Renesis, the other parts of your 15 year old car are still wearing out and you still have increasing repair costs :).

There is someone is AU that dumped a turbo'd Renesis motor in an FC... There isn't a kit or anything. From what I gather all that was fab'd were motor mounts and misc other things. The guy even had the 6 speed in there. I think I saw it on the fastfours.com/au site.... not sure..

He bought a totalled RX-8 and used all the parts.. He took a chance, but it worked :)

okay, this is cool at least knowing the status of anything remotely possible concerning a conversion.

Im not an engine builder by a longshot, and Im taking a blind stab here, but does anyone see it happening someday ? I imagine it will, if someone can make a profit, as written earlier.

Id really like to have the improved engine. More power, and just better overall.
But, I want to keep my second gen car. And I want that engine inside it.
I think its a perfect match.

My wife, who works directly for ford,mazda etc, keeps me updated on the renesis techo bits. I remember last year she brought home a copy of an official press release and a part of it went something like this.. " and mazda has totally solved the engine flooding, hard starting problems that have plagued earlier rx- owners" I had to laugh..

I will look at the au sites.

Honestly with the amount of money you will be pouring into the car doing this swap(definately over $5,000) you will have payed for 2 or 3 engine rebuilds and replacement of most of the other parts that normally break on our cars. Why bother....

thats just it, I dont want to have to deal with rebuilds years on down the road,overand over again.
Id rather have the all new, improved rotary powerplant. I also read where a guy can still get an all new engine,direct from japan{ not renesis} for about 4,500

I owned first gens rx-7s new in the 80's and never had problems with compression, or talk of rebuilds, flooding etc, the whole thing just didnt exist, they were all new.

It would cost more money, yet thats the way I would go. The rx money tornado haha

You could buy/have built a 90% NEW FC engine for around 5k that the Renesis would probably cost you. On top of that you could have it ported and prep'd for higher power. Then you can just put it in and forget about it for 10 years. Even with a renesis engine you will have to do a rebuild at some point(given you don't total the car or sell it). You are putting yourself through a whole bunch of unneeded work IMO.

This is having it built by someone but here is just a quickie run down of what you COULD do for way less than a renesis swap.

http://mazdatrix.com/engnumna.htm


S5 http://mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=MZTX-13-5F00

5340 USD


S4 http://mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=MZTX-13-4F00

5350 USD



Both are 100 percent NEW parts from the factory. Except for the S5 MOP.

Figure shipping in at 200 dollars to your door and you have a 5600 dollar drop in NEW engine.

Or you COULD buy one of those and take it to one of the good builders around:

Kevin Landers
REted
BDC
Judge ITO
Marvel

etc..

And have them crack open that engine and port it nicely. If you get an S5 engine you can have easilly 230 BHP that the Renesis has.

A port job might run you? 1k-2k depending on what you ask for.

Total est. spent 7600 dollars for the same power of the Renesis without major fabrication to the car and a BRAND NEW block.

i wouldn't mind doing the swap. not everything is about power.

the renesis gets better gas milage and cleaner emissions. the one i ported had even better gas milage than stock!

yeah well the renesis makes more power than my stock turbo,without the troubles that stock turbos have, and most have been rebuilt or modded.
T
hats why they redesigned the rotary, to make it better. In the end youre right, its all at least 5k, for a good total engine restoration. Other stuff goes like trans, radiators,etc.
The thing that kinda bugs me is if my original engine now{ bad blown one} is still 90% good,and just needs a new apex and housing, I have to give up my 90% good engine as a core, so I can get an engine thats 100%, so I pay at least 2,000,and I lose my 90% good engine just to get the bad 10% made right. there is always a better way. Either new renesis{ when available, }or new 13b, old design. Or just rebuild it myself, probaly best option.
Plus you never know how long your reman will last. Why do we put ourselves thru this spiral? because we love it hah

thanks for the links... excellent info.. I will be reading.. You are right, either way, old or new design its still new, and you get the reliabilty and hopefully, more longevity

When I read about " brand new " it makes me think of when I first turned the rotary key years ago, it still makes me sweat hah

As of yet, no one knows how long the renesis is going to last. So its hard to determine whether they have better long term durability than the 'old' 13B. Its kind of hard to compare a brand new engine to all the rebuilds or high mileage ones in our cars.

The more new parts you use, the longer your reman will last. If you start with brand new housings ($$$$) that makes a major difference.

Renesis 6spd gets 18/24 My FC gets an average 21 miles per galon. I'd say thats about the same as a renesis. My car isn't even tuned yet and it isn't using an O2 sensor and ~10k mile spark plugs and cheapy 7mm silicone wires.

I'd say if I spent 100 dollars(28 on plugs 30 on wires and 45ish on dyno runs{3 runs}) I could get it up to 23-25 mpg.

Yeah, thats absolutely true. If I get a rebuild kit, plus 2 new housings, Im at or above the 2,000.00 mark already I know I probaly need 1 new housing at least, but since its apart, its logical to get 2.

Now Ive been told that factory mazda remans ALL have 2 NEW housings, front cover and oil pump. Ive talked with them and they said about 1950.00, plus 1,000 for mine as a core.

The parts guy couldnt immediately verify if they had new housings. Do they?

Im not really all knowledgeable on rebuilds. I havent had to be, all my cars ran great, until this year when one gave up the ghost. I remember driving my new 1984 rx-7 home, it ran like a SWISS WATCH. I have one now that is that way still.
Great cars.

either I rebuild or mazda reman.. I like stock, not really into mods.
I wonder if the renesis, rx-8 will have a turbo added

I'm laughing too, because we see RX-8's towed into our dealership at least three times a month due to the engine flooding...and so far, they've all been the automatics, not the 6 spd vehicles. We have two Mazda techs here that can un-flood them in about 10-15 minutes even without removing the plugs.

I just thought that was funny because I've never heard that Mazda stated that they'd solved the flooding issue. Apparently, they forgot to tell the engine designers :)

Does anyone out there know why only the autos flood and not the 6 spds? I know this isn't the RX-8 forum, but a a Mazda rotary is a Mazda rotary, and I would like to learn why only the autos flood if someone can tell me.

You're lucky. Before my port and rebuild I was looking at 15-16mpg with basically 90-95% city driving with full tune up, new plugs and 10mm wires. Doubt I'm doing any better now after the port :p:

I think I'm cursed with cars that don't get good gas mileage, except an old beater escort I had for about 8 months, because every time I read quotes on the internet of gas mileage for cars I have it's always way more than what I have ever gotten, even with driving slow, shifting early, and not romping on it at all (other cars not rx7). With the rx7 I can mob around and redline it all the time and get 15-16, or I can drive like a wuss and get 16, doesn't really change anything.

Actually, I have heard rumors and talk around here at the dealership that Mazda is supposed to be unveiling a Mazdaspeed RX-8 in late 2006.
It is rumored to have a turbocharger on the renesis engine, just like the Mazdaspeed MX-5, which has a turbo on its 1.8L 4cyl.

Again, this is only what I have heard....I think it's pretty cool because our dealership is the only one in the area that is authorized to sell Mazdaspeed vehicles, like the MX-5, and the past Mazdaspeed Protege. Of course, I'll be back in school by then; won't get to see them :(

Again, all this pending on so-called "rumors" and "myths"

I dont know, ill take a guess and say the ecu is different and maybe its centered around the injector pulse width,etc, may be different. I havent even driven one yet, Id buy a 6 speed though, if I had the bread.

I beleive its a supercharged 8. I saw a pic of one with a hood scoop.

hey dorkman, you work at a mazda dealership? what odd luck, hey maybe you can give some more info on what i get with a mazda reman.

I want a new clutch, flywheel, and front pulleys, fuel injectors, oil injector valve things,the injector lines, and motor mounts, haha and a complete gasket set for the installation. is it a deal? hah

Oh man, they're a sweet drive (the 6spds). I had the chance to drive one here and it was quick, no doubt, but I still think that a TurboII is a little bit quicker because of the sudden acceleration you get when the turbo kicks in. However, I kind of got the feeling that the car is "too new" You know, sitting inside it, the gauges are beautiful, seats beautiful, but the overall shape of the interior didn't really leave me satisfied.

I guess you could say that the 2nd generation feels more like "home" to me. It also feels a little more nimble....I don't know. Maybe it's because I've driven 2nd gens for a few years now and an RX-8 only once :)

But the overall smoothness feel of the ride is simply amazing. I wouldn't mind owning one, but I don't think I'll seek out to ever buy one. I like my 2nd gen!

sounds like some one wants the 3 rotor bragging rights

Reman for what? You don't have a year or engine listed, unless you are talking about the renesis? We had to replace a blown motor on an RX-8 when they first came out; the customer had barely put 1K miles on the thing and an apex seal went. At the time, the only engine we could get from the factory was brand new, because they hadn't built any remans yet. I don't know if the reman renesis is available, but it's been awhile since we did that job, so if they are, it would sure be a hell of a lot cheaper to buy that engine!

I do know for a fact that any engine you get from Mazda, even the brand new renesis unit we obtained, does not come with anything you can bolt on yourself. You're on your own for swapping the intake, exhaust, clutch, mounts, etc. So you're only getting the shortblock....and it's not cheap, unless you are getting it for warranty reasons.

But then you'd have to already own an RX-8 for that :)

Mazda does not always use new housings in their remans. Now and then you see a new housing, but usually whatever is within spec, gets used :)

Oops, sorry I forgot to add that to my above post. ^^The man speaketh the truth!

a 100% brand new renesis shortblock from japan is $2200.

then you need what? 4k worth of electronics and manifolds to make it work. yay

Someone put the Renesis engine in a FB. I remember seeing pics of it in the lounge awhile back. I'll have to see if i can find them again.

Some guy also put a 13B in his 8 and sold the Renesis, you can find them for sale periodically at rx8club with harness and other goodies.

From what i've read there have been a good number of people who have had problems with the rx-8 tranny. I've heard of broken driveline parts from launching a totally stock rx-8. I'm not saying it's a bad car it just that it seems that for the money you'd have to spend you'd might as well do what has been suggested here and either go with a brand new motor or a ported rebuild. 13b's can make just as much if not more power than the new renesis, and as far as reliability and gas mileage they are really near the same and in my opinion the tii tranny is stronger. Ohh yeah and if your gonna spend all that cash go 20b:)

The only thing I could possibly find appealing about the renesis swap would be that you have 225(ish) hp with stock ports all motor. I personally am not a big fan of turbos(though I am planning on turboing my n/a next spring) so that kind of n/a power is lovely. As for the mazdaspeed rx8 ,an episode of Magrack mentioned that it will be supercharged and not turboed. Something to do with the way somethign was designed, ports maybe makes it so the turbo wouldnt be very efficient.

It's still worth more in the engine and electronics versus the whole car itself!
Has anyone actually done it versus just talking about it?


-Ted

well judging by the fact that many people on this forum are usually looking for the most cost effective way to do things, it seems that all that money and work for only 230hp is just rediculus. for that money you could probaby find 2 tii motors and have one for back up if the other one blows, i mean the renesis is a great motor and all but i really don't see the point

I cant imagine anyone here has done it yet, if they did it would be big news for all of us. the renesis motor is cool but the RX8 is less of a sportcar compared to RX7's... sure the renesis has a bump in power but since its modern the renesis design achievements are mostly about clean emissions. whoopdeedoo. it really is too bad they didnt release a really impressive 3-rotor renesis wth gobs of power... wtf! why not?! hopefully someday they will, I'd like to see that.

you know that I sure wouldnt drop $5000 on a renesis crate motor, plus more $$ for the 6speed tranny, plus fabrication time to do your own mounts... when you can do an LS1 v8 swap for the same cost but have double the power... and no its not an iron block motor and no you dont have to cut the hood for a big oldschool air filter.

I think you sum'd up that conversion pretty well.

wait for this years rx7 (as long as it's released when they say it will be) :)

A RX-7 coming out this year? I think not. And who says it'll be released this year?

from all the reading i've done on this forum the general vibe is that maxda has not actually released and info about a new rx-7, most of the pictures floating around on the internet are old rx-8 concepts

Honestly I don't care what anyone says, the renesis has more potential than the regular 13B. The intake on that thing is awesome, theres a 5 stage type VDI ducting system that makes it extremley drivable and powerfull at the same time. The compression ratio is also 10:1, running only 5lbs of boosts yeilds 70 horsepower and there would be virtuall no turbo lag with that high of a compression ratio. You won't be making 600hp with one, but you'll make an extremley fast and streetable 400hp one.
Does anyone have any long block prices from japan? read on page 2 that it was 2200 for the shortblock.. also any prices on the 6 speed tranny?

hmmmm what if one were to throw a weber on that thing....

lol, the mazda engineer who designed the renesis would be freakin out thats for sure. It wouldn't be a renesis really without the FI

Then you totally lose that three-stage intake which produces a lot of it's torque.


-Ted

It was never meant to be a replacement for the RX-7, nor was it meant to appeal to the same people who bought RX-7's. The market for an entertaining and practical 4-door sports car is much bigger than the market for dedicated and very pure (read compromised) sports cars.

Because it would be expensive, so not enough people would be able to buy them to make it economically feasible. Welcome to the real world where high-school pipe dreams seldom get made. :)

Renesis swap is pure self gratification.
 

Okay, it seems alot of people question the practicality of a Renesis swap into an FC or such, but lets face it, nobody would be doing the swap because they were looking to save money. Its all about the bragging rights! Besides, who owns an RX-7 for practical reasons anyway, especially the 2nd gens. They are terrible on gas, have electrical gremlins up the ass, and new parts are expensive as shit. My FC is getting to be pretty beat, but I still love it to death. To own an RX-7 is to love the theory of the car itself. A unique powerplant, 50/50 balance, advanced for its time, only 2 seats, and the fact that nobody even knows the virtues unless they own one themselves.

If I had money to burn, and a front clip RX-8, I would be working on the swap. And nobody except the people on this board would give a care except me, and thats all thats important.

-Ryan

Well you'd be an idiot to do this for 'bragging rights'. it will cost some $ but it would clearly be for performance.
Alot of people say that the renesis is not all that great, but we all have to remember that its new and things are being developed as we speak. Like I said before, I think that it has alot of potential, maybe even more potential than an FD engine in terms of racing performance and not high end HP.

Mazda made the renesis for a reason, they developed it into a better engine than all the previous models. If it were not as good, then they would have scrapped it before its launch and just used the FD engine or something else. But the renesis was developed and chosen.

the rx8 is heavier. if you put the renesis engine in an fc chassis, i bet fuel economy would go up.

A lot of great replies and I see good and bad on both sides.

Master-rx really says a lot of the same stuff I think about the swap.
Spending money on my cars doesnt really bother me. I see it this way.. I bought one of my second gens, an 88 gxl, for about 2700.00 . Its in great shape and runs like a champ.
That $$$ is absolutely peanuts in the world of sports cars.

I have no doubt that purchasing any decent 86-91 Rx-7 is the best value for the dollar. Figuring the quality level, and combined engineering genius that went into these cars, spending 3 - 5,000 for a good one is the best deal on earth.

Spending an extra 500 or more here or there for what i want, i dont even care.
People spend over 50 grand on a new vette, I can line up 10 really nice rx-7's for that. I wish I had 10 of these cars haha

Im about 40 years old now, and have my life pretty well set up, so spending whatever on the engine I WANT is what will happen. 15 or 20 years ago, I didnt have money for mods or engine choices.

A new 13b or renesis {someday}are both the best choices. If a renesis package someday is 5,000, that is still a great deal, for the $$ in the world of reliable sports cars.

I read where mazda has already sold over 200,000 rx-8s worldwide.
If I begin to look long term, down the road 10,15 or 20 years, I see the used 86-91 engines becoming ultra scarce and less and less dependable.
I see the rx-8, renesis engine becoming the standard in any second gen rebuild.
I think eventually it will happen.

If I do a rebuild on my turbo, I at least want new housings. New new new, im stuck on it haha
These people who design and build these cars, renesis included, have nothing less than pure genius.

if you really wanna do it, i'd love to help.
only problem is i'm in california, so it would either have to be done at my shop, or maybe i can swing out for a weekend or so.

www.rotaryheads.com