Rx-7 VS FF
 

Ok this is my dumb idiot of a brother's doing but he continues to say that a FF vehicle will out drift my S5 N/a. Now again I am not saying that these FF layout vehicles are all that great. One is a 16v 4cyl 91 Jetta and the car my bro drives is a dead stock 91 gallant. I tell him and try to explain the whole physics behind the concept but he just doesn't get it.
And than he pulls in all this rallying shit about how him and his damn friends rally around some dumb clay race track. From here I axplain to him that rally cars are super light, have huge hair dryers attached to them and have a 4wd layout to them. I also explain to him the power differance that the cars have over my RX along with the fact that they rarely drift on the road which leads to "oh well I am comming hard around this right hand corner......what if there is someone comming up the other side." This installs fear and causes one to mess up or pick a slower, more cautious line.
I don't know who the fuck would win an Rx-7 or a damn ff layout car like the above mentioned?

this thread sucks.

I'm not sure what your asking but

But skylines are RWD (some of them) Silvia S13's are RWD RX-7s RWD 240SX RWD

Now they would outdrift and FF car
IF thats what your asking

...FF can't drift, they throw their asses around, PERIOD...

...ask him a drift technique for his FF car that DOESN'T involve the e-brake...

Punch your brother in the face.

WAN!! THATS WRONG!!

he should let ME punch his brother in the face!

seriously though, what was this thread about?

yeap, hes an idiot, all hes gona do in his FF car is slide the ass around


yeah, but im not bored anymore


:bigthumb: :D :bigthumb:

that made no sence....

lol

fwd can drift if the suspension setting are right. rally drivers used toe out mostly to get this affect. i used it on my camry and if hooked up right, i could get the rear to oversteer while on the gas. however, as a negative, you'd better damn well know how to control it under braking as it will turn around faster then you can piss yourself. as for all the clay track babble, um sure.

Hehehe yeah it did come out wrong, I was just venting more or likely from my brother's mass amount of intelect. I am just really pissed off when people call stuff drifting when they do it with some dumb car like a jetta. It is ass draging and no they don't use the ebrake they use left foot breaking. I was just venting, sorry guys:D

HA HA HA.

ha ha ha

Somehow i knew they were driving automatics.

Not that you can't left foot brake in a standerd trans, it's just that you generally heel-toe in a manual.

:gotrice:

im pretty sure a fwd car cannot drift by definition

a drift is a controd slide where as you use tire spin to control the angle your at, i cant see how you could conrol a slide using your fronttires

your right that rally drivers use negative toe (on the rear wheels) to help induce oversteer, (along with positive toe up front) but that isnt drifting, its just a power slide, and if its a fwd car, your just sliding around

-Jacob

Drifting isn't for racing, it's for show. Therefore, whichever car had the most stickers and the loudest BOV would win a drift event. As for racing, whichever car didn't drift would be the fastest, with all other factors being equal.

What do you mean by FF car? Fast and the Furious car? Obviously your definition isn't the same as mine, because Formula Fords don't drift.
http://www.bmrc.co.uk/championships/ff.htm

FF - front engine Front Wheel Drive
your Formula Fords don't? we have a guy that drifts somewhat in his Formula Mazda. he pulls in one of the best times around the track. correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought drifting would actually improve times if used at the appropriate curves. sure, we'd all love perfect traction, but they're cars, not shifter karts.

It is easy to drift a ff car. Take a curve hard on a wet road and then hit the brakes (not ebrakes). Bam, the rear end swings out and you have an awesome (or dangerous depending on driving ability) two node oscillation involving gripping front wheels and drifting rears.

thats not drifting, if thats drifting i could drift my boat trailer, my dad could drift his motorcycle toe thingy

by that defintion i've probably drifted my fwd car better then you in your rwd. my car would be sliding and i would be controlling the throttle to keep the maximum grip on the front tires and keep the rear swinging. drifting is called drifting because the car is drifting. most rwd drivers do more powersliding then drifting. i still haven't learned the drift control yet in a rwd. however i started to get it some in my wrx. i still countersteer more then i did in the camry. of course the camry and i had roughly 6+ years to become connected and tuned.

also positive toe i have never heard of being used in the front. my settings where an 1/8 of and inch overall front and rear. then i pulled the front into 1/16 to control tire wear with the -1.5* i had. in the rear its used to control oversteer in rwd applications, especially high hp. that is the only toe-in application i know of.

How? not that i dont belive you, ive drivin a small varity of fwd and rwd cars and i have never beenable to keep the rear out for any conviable amount of time on any of the fwd cars


ill admit up front, im not the most knowledgable on the subject, but

from my reading from a couple of sites (which i will source if you want, but it might take me a few) a slight toe-out upfront helps to point the car in the direction you want by way of each tire fighting eachother for traction

what do you mean by "control"? to help reduce or induce? again from what i have read because the ass end is all over the place the toe-in gets one tire closer to its natural arc in the corner to aid in traction, i know traction is essentialy the oppisit of a drift but its the only word i can think of

toe-in will cause the weighted wheel to attempt to "steer" in the direction pointed. thus our ghey toe changing rear suspension. it toes out at slow speeds to help the car turn but at higher g's toes in to help control oversteer. if the wheel is trying to turn into the direction of steer, then it will be less likely to oversteer. the reason you never see, that i've heard of, toe-in on the front is that as you turn the wheel and the car turns, the inside wheel is tracking a tighter arc. with a little toe-out the inside front stays truer to its line intstead of scrubbing and fighting against the outside tire to steer out. however in a straight line both tires will scrub and increase tire wear. with my 1.5* negative camber and the toe-out in the front i was seeing enormous inner tire wear. i brought both down a bit to compensate but the damage was already done. :( teething troubles.

hmm i guess i should re-read what i have read, i must of goten it wrong becuase what you have said makes complete sence.

so rear toe-in would make it harder to induce an oversteer? would it help maintain control at all or just aid in accelearation of tire wear?

-Jacob

Heel-toe is mainly used to downshift. Left foot braking is totally different. Simple terms--> keep your foot on the gas while braking with your left foot going into turns.

I dont feel like getting into more detail but alot of FF drivers use this technique.

both. any time that the wheel aren't perpendicular to the line of travel, you will induce scrubbing. now tire wear will be dependent of the scrub angle and weight applied. since the tire is trying to turn into your turn, oversteer will be harder to initiate. the bad thing about the changing toe in the rear suspension of our fc's is that the static friction before breaking loose is far more then the kinetic friction once the tire looses grip. thus the toe should reduce, causing a snap over steer condition. that is why the fc tends to feel all over the place in the rearend as you cross back and forth on the lines of grip. obviously not very communicative to the driver. as soon as i can afford it, the eliminator bushings are going into my car.

all i have hurd is good things about thoes, they are also on my list of to-do

-Jacob

just remember, most can make hp. it is suspension tuning that is the black art, lol. there are many different ideas on this. some suggest using springs and dampers as you main cornering tuning, some swaybars. so its a sort through, learn and become knowlegable game. of course if i don't make sense, i blame it on 4 glasses of wine. hope i've been some help.