Redid Custom outlet for M90 supercharger project. PICS
 

Since the last one I made was too thin and sucked ass, I remade the outlet out of 1/4" thick steel and a 3" diameter steel pipe. Im going to mount the Supercharger where zbrown mounted his, but mine is going to be turned 90* clockwise (if youre facing the nose of the car) so the outlet runs straight into the TB without the 90* bend. Im hoping this yields better results.
I have a 3" to 2.5" Coupler on the outlet because Im going to be using a custom intake pipe that bolts direction to the TB that is 2.5" Ill just use another 2.5" pipe and coupler to run to the TB and run the BOV and Bypass valve off of that, like Zbrown did.
http://webpages.charter.net/vtecpreludez/SC_Outlet.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/vtecpreludez/SC_coupler.jpg
Questions? Comments?

would junkyard superhcargers work aswell? cus my engine is old 180k miles and was wondering if this would be able to handle even a little psi reliably.

If you are worried about the PSI, probably use a smaller pully, perhaps 2.5-3"?
I guess the Junkyard SC would work as well.. if its not in shit condition im assuming.

ofcourse. i wont pick anything that i find. whats the dificulty compared to turboing an na compared to supercharging it?

Supercharging is easier in my opinion, read that long ass thread by Zbrown called "My n/a supercharging project complete" He doesnt have that many posts so just search by user "zbrown"

good deal.

cant you just replace the whole uim and mount the superhcrager on it?

Lol, I dont know, wouldnt you have to mess with the TB and all that crap to?

dezerte could you do a write on what you did and send it to me or show all of us?
Thanks
TwEaK

I havent done the whole thing yet, But once I do, ill surely do a write up.

Re: Redid Custom outlet for M90 supercharger project. PICS
 

Why no intercooler? Why limit the potential so much?

wow! looks much better!

Re: Re: Redid Custom outlet for M90 supercharger project. PICS
 

How would you set up the intercooler? The easiest way looks like you would have to mount the supercharger on the drivers side, which is impossbile. Im almost positive it wont fit. (since ive tried positioning it there and such)
But I dont see how youd set the IC up, and I read that the eaton M90 Doesnt need one. Correct me if Im wrong, or make comments or whatever please

I dunno, no fit test, but I think the driver's side might have some potential, with the mounts for the PS and A/C over there. Use a short snout (whole unit just over 30 cm long) and place the SC fairly high up.

Also like the idea of modded manifolds, which could also serve as mount point.

IC might not be necessary, but will be very good power wise, and safety wise too.

YEah, drivers side is definetly too small for the m90, I might think of a way for an IC once i get everything set up. I was thinking the exact same thing about the PS and AC mounting area. But Ill probably just remove the airpump and have somebody fab something up to fit it off there.

An intercooler is not necessary for a supercharger. They are an entirely different application than a turbo charger.

Any time you compress air, you heat it up. While this supercharger doesn't compress the air inside the unit itself, the air does get compressed inside the intake manifold and engine. This heats it up.

But... what good would an intercooler do if the air only gets headed up inside the Intake manifold? An IC doesnt cool this air..

so putting in intercooler wouldnt help out the system at all?

Doesnt really look like it to me that much at least.., but NZconvertible seems to think it will, still waiting on a reply from him though :D

As once stated by a member on this forum (I remember seeing it but can't remember who said it) "Not all boost is created equal"

Superchargers and Turbochargers BOTH compress air. Compressing anything heats it up. The difference is what drives them. A supercharger is powered by the belt and sits in a rather cool position. A turbocharger is powered by the hot flowing exhaust gases. These gases heat the turbocharger thus heating up the air it compresses also. The supercharger has the advantage of not needing an intercooler for "useable" boost, but a non-intercooled supercharer's boost will not equal the potential of an intercooled turbocharger boost.

The point of all that is "colder the boost, better the power". While you can run it without an intercooler, why start making welds or mounts without considering a possible future intercooler spot? If you look at advanced supercharger kits for other cars, you'll notice they come with intercoolers. If you give up on intercooling now, like NZConvertible said "Why limit the potential".

edit: quick search: Evil Aviator gets the wiseguy points for the "Not all boost is created equal" statement. At least thats where I first read those words.

Also here's an intercooling idea, that zbrown I am sure is trying out. Zbrown mentioned he was looking for a turbo intake manifold. His supercharger sits near the stock turbocharger's, or at least in a very rough general area as it. His plan is most likely to use the stock intercooling setup. Since your supercharger plan is mostly like his, you can use this idea too.

Not a bad idea, but too much borrowing from a turbo car for my like. I do plan on trying this out myself, as soon as I finish an insurance issue with some lady who wrecked my 7. I am happy to see that you are going through with this project Dezerte, it will help me learn a lot. I am still trying to ignore your comments on it not fitting on the drivers side. I need to see this for myself. I AM A STUBBORN BASTARD.

One last thing, Dezerte.

I saw you mention if you want lower boost use a smaller pulley. That is exactly the opposite effect. A bigger pulley will lessen the revolutions and make less boost at the given rpm.

I hope you read this before you overspin your m90. :p:

Just run a small Air-To-Water setup. You could use any number of small stock cores and convert them for water use. DSM sidemounts and TII top mounts come to mind as being good examples-

You could grab a honda radiator to use as the heat exchanger.

Dezerte: Check out Corky Bell's Suoercharged!, if you haven't already. It'll trip you out hardcore.

Technically no form of forced induction needs one, but that's not the point.
I dunno where people get this crazy idea, but it's complete crap. Any time you compress air, you add heat to it. It doesn't matter how you do it, the air will get hotter. When you compress it very fast (i.e. supercharger or turbo) you get a lot of heat.

Of course it's possible to run without an intercooler, but that applies equally to turbos. I know, coz I ran a non-intercooled 12AT for 5 years. The lack of intercooler limited it's potential and was probably at least partially responsible for its demise.

You say you're doing this because it's easier than a turbo, but if you took the intercooler out of the equation you'd make the turbo conversion a lot easier too. That doesn't make it the smart way to go, particularly if you ever want to go any further.

i get this idea from building race cars my entire life. I have supercharged a dozen cars, and never used an intercooler because it is needless. The air is heated, but not to any real extensive amount as to where its going to be that helpful adding an intercooler.

Yeah, that's why many factory supercharged cars come with intercoolers...

intercool that sucker!!!

well, if you use the eaton M90, it really wont fit :( , well, it might if you reloacate a few things :p: or cut stuff, but that seemed too troublesome.
Thanks for the posts all

Hmm hmm, ill look at the car and measure some stuff and post later concerning the intercooler

I was considering supercharging mine...


But with a Paxton or Vortech supercharger (one that is belt driven from behind the supercharger itself). When using an appropriate e-fan ;) you should not have a whole lot of clearance issues on the driver's side, and this leads to the idea I have.
You could use an FMIC with the Vortech/Paxton mounted on the driver's side, because you would have to cross the front end anyway.

And NZ, I don't want to be the one to say this, but most factory supercharged cars are not intercooled. The Thunderbird Supercoupe, the Bonneville SSEi, the Grand Prix GTP, the Riviera S/C, and most American supercharged cars are not intercooled. Most supercharged cars intended for drag racing are not intercooled, as the supercharger tends to be bolted directly to the intake manifold.
:)

It looks a lot better then the last one, but how about smoothing the transition from the mounting flange to the pipe? Air smashing into a flat mounting flange then having to find it's way to an outlet pipe is what we call "turbulance". :)

I am considering this project too. I was going to mount it on the drivers side where the ps and ac compressors go... I removed mine. I am going to use the mounting points for my bracket....If it will fit there. I just have to figure out the best way to pipe it..

Superchargers don't need an intercooler as they don't really add extra heat to the compressed air like a turbocharger does, but to pipe a supercharger without a possibility of an intercooler is seriously limiting its potential.

Ok, enough non-sense about intercooling. If you think it would be TOO much trouble to install and properly pipe an intercooler to the front of the vehicle than run methanol injection instead. It's cheap and easy to find. You can purchase a purge silonoid for the injector and have it pump directly into your TB elbow. I've seen it and it works. With my application i can use the LT-8's aux. output to control such a silinoid.

THe LT-8 would detect change in manifold pressure and activate the methanol injector, thus allowing you to run substantial amounts of boost without an intercooler being adapted.


I am only going to say one thing : If your gunna do it, DO IT RIGHT.

-Markus

Exactly.

In wouldn't you want to run an intercooler. It would cool the intake charge after it was heated up. Don't forget a cooler intake charge makes more power.

I really like the SC idea, I just think that you guys could all benifit from intercoolering you set-ups.

The last one had a square cut out in the middle of the pipe (i dont know why), this one is heavier duty, and its a complete circle when you look down on top of it.

I know what ur saying by smoothing the transition from the mount to pipe, but i dont see how that would be done :(

if youre using the eaton m90, it wont fit there.

This also crossed my mind, which throws another coin into the Vortech/Paxton till, as they use something similar to the cold side of a turbo as the compressing blades...

I don't want to be the one to say this, but I wouldn't necessarily use American automotive engineering as a shining example of the right way to do things. Cheap and easy maybe...

Take a look at Japanese and European supercharged engines and you'll find intercooling is more common. Someone even posted a pic of an American intercooled supercharged engine the other day.
Most of those cars also run methanol or other fuels burns so much cooler than petrol that an intercooler limits power instead of increasing it. Besides, I've seen quite a few drag engines with water-air intercoolers sandwiched between the supercharger and the intake manifold.

Instead of arguing about it, why doesn't someone with a supercharged 13B post some measured intake air temps.

They are also all mom-and-pop sedans running low boost and producing low power levels. Why not use a definite performance engine as an example? IE: Ford Lightning supercharged 5.4L engines run intercoolers.

And consindering these m90's came stock on the car with an intercooler (the later ones).... But who cares for logic?

NZConvertible, scathcart, and sonicrat have got their shit straight!

I think the idea of an air-water IC is solid in this application, if somewhat complex. Intake length is short, space utilization good and cooling ok, particularly for a street car.

The thing is not just on there for safety -- the safety it provides allows for more radical tuning, and the cooler, denser air charge allows for more power.

According to Corky Bell:
"IC... slow to come into use in SC applications... reasons must be traditional and economic, since the fundamental value of the IC is both large and beyond dispute..."

Thunderbird Supercoupe is intercooled.
03+ Cobra is intercooled.
Supercharged F-150 (Lightning, H-D) are intercooled.
Mercedez Benz "compressor" models, intercooled.
VW Corrado G60, intercooled.

Hmmm, the single shared powertrain in the GM cars seems to be the exception, NOT the rule.

a quick question, if say i was going to a junkyard owned by my friend and wanted to find one of these m90 sc's you all speak of what cars might i expect to find them in?

what would be a cool way of intercooling is to throw on the T2 upper and lower intake manafolds and the T2 TB with its little adapter on it.. Hook up the SC liek i first saw (the first port where the guy did it) and throw the stock IC up there.. get a T2 hood and that would be pretty cool :)

bah, the pics are gone!