What's your fuel setup going to look like? What kind of turbo are you going to be using? How much boost? Intercooler? Wastegate? Etc?
I'm curious :) |
Originally Posted by RETed
This one scares me.
The washers look like zinc plated stuff? Even if it was stainless steel, most of the parts inside the turbo turbine are high nickel content iron. I'd be surprised if your welds actually hold up. I'd put money it will all come apart in weeks. TIG *might* hold, but you've confirmed using a MIG. -Ted i have done the same on my turbos, nothing scary about it... though my flapper was not this large and i did not double the washers i simply used one mid sized one and ported the port a few mm smaller than the flapper. i used my highest heat setting on a 150amp MIG welder and the welds came out quite strong. first, it has held fine even under some pretty heavy abuse for a few months now at least and second, even if it does fail it will act like a default thermostat stuck open causing a loss of boost and the flapper ejected from the exhaust with no damage to the turbo. here is a pic of one of my more recent ones, though i did not port it as large but it is fine for a ported stock turbo. http://img87.echo.cx/img87/5277/picture0398kn.jpg |
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
When you are dealing with that kind of power, you get a new appreciation for the words "high current short circuit". I've seen inch thick copper bus bars literally vaporize under these conditions.
A few years back, here in BC, a local electrican and his 5th term apprentice were doing some live panel work in one of the electrical rooms at a shopping mall. The panel was 347/600V on a 1600Amp main breaker... The apprentice tells the story of the journeyman dropping a copper bus bar and having it cross the lugs of the panel. While 600V is technically not high voltage, the arc was enough to instantly ionize the air in the electrical room, setting the two in the room on fire. The journey was killed, and the apprentice ran out of the room, burning, and was put out by the janitor in the hall. The burns on the apprentice covered more than half of his body. High current is nothing to take lightly. |
Originally Posted by SonicRaT
Is it OK to use a AN 90 degree (-12) off the turbo then straight into the front cover? Not sure if you're talking all bends or not, or possibly even a 45 into the front cover?
That's the way I see it. You want shortest path. You want highest drain point. You want smooth transitions, if the oil drain line has to turn. Adapter fittings just add more restriction. Turbonetics states this explicitly in their catalog. -Ted |
Originally Posted by Snrub
How serious are you on this one Ted? How much money are you willing to risk? Are you seriously willing to stand behind what you're saying or is this egomaniacal BS?
I realize that if the flapper door fell out, the worst would probably be less boost, if anything. I've had very good results with ported wastegates without molesting the stock wastegate flapper. That's why I disagree that the flapper should be even changed. I would rather keep the stock flapper and just port the WG orifice more. I think I got enough experience with welding and turbo turbine parts to understand what's going on here. A friend has a TIG which I had recommended he get; he's glad he got it instead of a less expensive MIG. -Ted |
Originally Posted by scathcart
Little story along similar lines for you.
A few years back, here in BC, a local electrican and his 5th term apprentice were doing some live panel work in one of the electrical rooms at a shopping mall. The panel was 347/600V on a 1600Amp main breaker... The apprentice tells the story of the journeyman dropping a copper bus bar and having it cross the lugs of the panel. While 600V is technically not high voltage, the arc was enough to instantly ionize the air in the electrical room, setting the two in the room on fire. The journey was killed, and the apprentice ran out of the room, burning, and was put out by the janitor in the hall. The burns on the apprentice covered more than half of his body. High current is nothing to take lightly. Doing some quick calculations... 600V x 1600A x 4 (instantaneous peak current, although it's probably higher) ...equals 3,840,000 watts Converting to horsepower, it's over 5,000hp. This just gives you a relative idea of what kind of "power" we're talking about. Looking at those numbers, it doesn't surprise me what had happened. I've seen automotive electrical 12V shorts on 2AWG wire that instantly vaporized when shorted with no proper protection. The wire was running from engine bay (battery) to the rear of the vehicle and created a ONE FOOT wide burn path from front to back! I don't mess around with electrical safety. In fact, I tend to really paranoid about electrical circuits. -Ted |
did i mention that this car is ridiculous
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Did i mention that your avartar is rediculous? J/K if that form family guy its great. That car is going to be evil!!! Aaron what are oyu manifold design plans? Anythying like what Sonicrat has for his turbo kits? (That shit is INASNE!!!) Aayways that car looks amazing, i just realized i have a can of red Metalcast in muh garage :eek: if use it on my engine if i wasn't against painting anything until its fast :cool:
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Good update, I look forward to seeing it run.
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Just a quick note to say that the engine was installed yesterday. Most of the day was marked with rain, so I built a makeshift tent over the entrance of the garage where the manifolds, water pump, turbo, etc. were installed, and then the engine finally hoisted into place during a wind and lightening storm.
Only two minor problems, which are easily solved. First, my oil drain simply doesn't fit. The fitting sticks out of the pan too much, and as luck would have it, there is a slight bump in the subframe directly in that area. So the straight 1/2" NPT to -10AN from the pan will need to be replaced with a 90 degree 1/2" / -10, and the 90 degree end on the pan end of the hose will get replaced with a straight. Second, one of the clutch bolt threads is damaged on the flywheel. No big deal, as I'll pick up the appropriate tap (only the 1st or 2nd thread is bad) tomorrow and simply install the clutch later on before I install the transmission... Either way, next comes all the other engine bay stuff like the rad, coils, fuse box, etc. And then the wiring can start.
Originally Posted by dDuB
What's your fuel setup going to look like? What kind of turbo are you going to be using? How much boost? Intercooler? Wastegate? Etc?
Originally Posted by scathcart
Little story along similar lines for you.
A few years back, here in BC, a local electrican and his 5th term apprentice were doing some live panel work in one of the electrical rooms at a shopping mall. The panel was 347/600V on a 1600Amp main breaker... The apprentice tells the story of the journeyman dropping a copper bus bar and <snip> High current is nothing to take lightly.
Originally Posted by staticguitar313
Aaron what are oyu manifold design plans? Anythying like what Sonicrat has for his turbo kits? (That shit is INASNE!!!)
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Aaron, I know you and Ted rarely see eye to eye, but I have to back him up on the turbo drain thing. In fact I had a post saying pretty much the same thing half typed last night when my internet connection spat the dummy. I've heard exactly the same advice several times over the years, and the importance was stressed each time. Drains should be big with minimal bends and always drain to a point above the sump oil level. If it were me, I'd rethink that set-up. It would bother me...
Ted, I have a plain ol' zinc plated, mild steel washer TID'd to my wastegate flap, and all is still well many months after install. ;) |
Very nice job there Mr Aaron.
Lot of effort into that engine |
Originally Posted by NZConvertible
Aaron, I know you and Ted rarely see eye to eye, but I have to back him up on the turbo drain thing. In fact I had a post saying pretty much the same thing half typed last night when my internet connection spat the dummy. I've heard exactly the same advice several times over the years, and the importance was stressed each time. Drains should be big with minimal bends and always drain to a point above the sump oil level. If it were me, I'd rethink that set-up. It would bother me...
The current drain for the stock turbo is a little less then ideal, but it's only for breakin/testing. Once I go to the big turbo, there will be only one 90 degree bend (where it connects to the pan), but it will still drain below the oil level in the pan. I'm not expecting problems there either. Really, problems with the oil drain are the absolute furthest thing from my mind right now, as I have proved in the past that draining below the level of oil in the pan works just fine. :) |
Originally Posted by RETed
Um, I'm serious.
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Oil drain stuff...
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I'll say it again regarding the oil drain: a much worse setup (regarding bends and restriction) worked flawlessly for a year with my original setup. Case closed. :)
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