Nevermind then. SonicRat have you ever done a TII Swap?

Yep! Read my signature! :)

Landers is selling the complete swap + hood for $1,700 + shipping (er, whoops)

I wrote to him and he wrote back, $1,700 is for a used engine, it would be $2,700 for a rebuilt one with everything I need plus shipping which would be about 200-250. So for about $3,000 I could get the whole setup, is that a good price?

I would say so. That's for a rebuilt engine and a complete tII drivetrain. That'd make your vert seem like a completely new car :) (Not to mention make it worth a hell of a lot more!) :D I say go for it if you got the cash!

go for it man. landers is the pimp.
you and rat can get it done :)

SonicRAT, Landers said he could also build me a ported non turbo. Which route would be better. I wouldn't have the rarity of the Vert TII but I would Imagine I would get more engine life. Is my thinking correct in this? What would be the life expectancy of each be providing they are well maintained and not beat on?
thanks again for your continued advice

a ported non-turbo will last longer than a ported turbo.

the life expectancy really depends on how heavy your foot is. the more boost the car sees, the shorter its life. but generally, non-turbo motors last longer than turbo motors.

your swap would be much easier putting the non-turbo motor in there and may last longer over the years, but you wont have nearly as much "awe factor" or speed as if you were to put the turbo engine in there.

thanks jacob, what about hp difference between a ported non turbo and a non ported turbo?

hmm... about 50-75hp difference. It's a hard choice, I know that. Reliability, or Turbo! I went to the dark side and got the turbo, but now I've got an NA to back it up. ;) It's really up to you, it's not like you're going to have to replace the Turbo engine once a year or something... It's just going to randomly go out sooner than a NA engine would. And if it's well maintained, oil changes/coolant flushes/tune ups accordingly/problems fixed as soon as they occur, it should last quite a long time.

Sonic are you saying that a stock rebuilt TII has 50-75 more HP than a ported non turbo, or would that be a some other costom turbo? At any rate, I think I'm going with the TII option. Not as reliable and more costly but the rare product that would result I think would make it worth while. I had a TII for about 3 years once and didn't have any problems with it. I'm guessing I would need a suspension upgrade on the vert to have handling be the same. Thanks again to every one who offered their advice. Also an extra thanks to Sonic and jacob.

you can get to about 220-230 bhp with a stock engine @ about 9-10 psi of boost on the stock turbo.
i'd think a ported non-turbo engine would get you about 175-190 bhp.

I thought the stock TII put out 170hp in the 87-88 and 180hp on the 91-92. I had no idea that the stock Tii could put out 220HP. I'm looking for everyday releiability and driveability as I do not race, although I am am prone to the occasional stoplight challenge(damn hondas) If I can get 60k-80k out of a TII I'd be happy. I'm going to try a rebuild on the engine I pull to have a backup.

totally stock, the 87-88 turboII's put out 180 bhp.

totally stock, the 89-91 turboII's put out 200 bhp.

the 86-88 nonturbo engine makes 140 bhp. (160 ported?)

and the 89-91 nonturbo engine makes 160 bhp. (180 ported?)

the good thing about these turbo rotaries is you can easily raise the horsepower by raising boost. by simply adding an intake and exhaust, you can get 80 bhp because the freeflow exhaust and intake lets the turbo breath and spool easier, of course you would have to start watching the fuel mixture at this point.

however, you should probably have plenty of power at stock boost levels.

you can get over 150k with a turbo engine if you take care of it.

Is it difficult to set the proper fuel mixture correctly?

This is good to hear.

you have to get an air fuel controller (like apexi S-AFC or the likes) but you really dont need to worry about that until you are running around 9-10 psi which you wont be seeing unless you mod it.

:)

Just do it, as nike would say. ;)

I intend to.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6327

http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...e9/i-2_B_L.JPG
http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...e9/i-1_B_L.JPG
http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_...e9/i-5_B_L.JPG

thats how i'd want it done if i were to buy one :) nice paint, nice engine bay, nice and clean.

sorry double post

No question that is nice but at over $17,000 invested, I'm sure he wants big bucks for it.

I've done the drivetrain part... figure a good, solid day's work with an assistant. You need the flywheel (just leave it on the TII motor you are swapping in) clutch, pp, clutch slave cylinder, tranny, crossmember, driveshaft, and complete rear subframe to make it as easy as possible. You have to lengthen the wires for the sensors in the tranny (neutral, 5th gear sensors) but otherwise WITH THOSE PARTS it is a straight bolt-in. The only thing more difficult about a 'vert is 6 bolts to remove the extra brace on the bottom of the chassis.

(I've done all of this... now on to the part I haven't done yet!)

The engine is another day's work, again with an assistant. You need the engine, the engine wiring harness, the AFM, the boost sensor, the hose to the brake booster. (It has a check valve in it, unlike the NA one.) The Convertible ECU is rumored to be mapped as a turbo ECU, but I can't positively confirm that. It IS a different part number from the coupe ECU. You will also want to replace the fuel pump with a TII one or perhaps even an FD pump. The NA cars don't have the relay to change the fuel pump voltage, so the "rewire" is already done. You'll need to add a boost gauge- some folks recommend swapping the dash wiring harness and using a TII instrument panel. I, however, like having the ammeter, and the factory boost gauge is crap anyhow. I think a small box to house both a boost gauge and an Air/Fuel meter (just led's in a row, the DIY kind) would mount nicely on top of the column, being RIGHT where you can see it, and not obscuring anything since it would only hide the part of the tach that isn't used. (This is what I plan to do at least!) In my case, the motor will be ported with either a hybrid or a full T04B. I have the motor, (and all that other crap!) just gotta tear it apart and get to work.

Thanks for the breakdown Brad, very helpfull. Did you do the drivetrain swap on jackstands or did you use a lift?

Thanks again.

Mike

I pm'd you and told you how I did it using jacks and jackstands. It's really not too hard once you have all the parts together. If you're seriously going to do it, I'd be glad to help. Though I have no cars on this side of the country, so I'd have to work out a way to get there. Just give me a warm place to stay and some food and I'm all good to help! ;) Getting the parts is the hardest part. Installing it is a breeze compared to that! :)