My 3 rotor FC build
Ok guys, I'm posting this in the 2nd gen specific area because it is a detailed thread that shows what it would cost to build a 3 rotor FC. If you guys feel it belongs somewhere else don't hessitate to move it, wont bother me.
Anyway, I started this on the teamfc3s.com website in the pictures section (if someone wants to check it out) to show exactly what it would cost to build one of these puppies. Originally I was going to put it in my 88 convertible, that I'm converting to a 91 by the way, and then decided not to after researching all of the extra support the car would need to handle the extra torque. So, I decided to put it my 91 coupe which is in mint condition with 85,000 original miles. As for the engine I bought it from Nippon Motors in California. The engine was flawless and really shoudn't of been pulled apart but oh well. I decided to beef it up a bit. I got it street ported, slotted the rotors to 3mm, and added a bunch of extra dowel pins. All of the interals are new to include 3rd gen main bearings, 3rd gen corner seal springs, and solid corner seals. I'm also going to keep the sequential twin turbo setup but they are getting rebuilt and upgraded with larger compressor wheels and clipped turbine wheels. Lets see some pics and then I'll start blabbering again. |
If any one can tell me how to post more than one pic at a time it would be very helpful
|
After everthing was stipped off
|
AWESOME! I can't wait to watch the progress of your build up!
|
Ok, so far this is what it has cost me.
91 Coupe (mint but needs paint) $500 minus eng., trans... 3 rotor shippped $2,550 Streetport, slotting, extra dowls $1,310 Engine Mounts from teamfc3s.org $250 Upgrade and rebuild turbos $700 Konig Villians 17x7 and 17x9 with 275 Nitto 555r's in the rear $800 RP competition fuel pump $200 complete reduild package about $1,300 That brings the total to $7,610 including the car. I still need Paint, Radiator, Intercooler w/ piping, Exhuast, and I'm powder coating the monifolds and the piping, Dry Cell Batt., and some misc stuff I'll probably need. I should be able to do all that for $2,400. If so I'll have a sweet car for, hopefully, less than $10,000 that will beat down those Porsches, zo6's, and maybe even some Ferrari's. All this and its still an everyday driver with A/C, Powersteering and complete interior. Let me know what you guys think. |
Almost forgot I need a clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate.
|
As for Horsepower I'm looking to get about 475 to the wheels, we'll see.
|
are you putting the engine in yourself?
|
Looks good! But two things:
1. The stock ECU is very limited, and while people have had some success running it in the FC, an aftermarket ECU is worlds better. 2. I have never figured out why people would go through all the trouble of the 20B and still use the stock twins. :) But I guess it's a personal thing. |
Originally posted by Aaron Cake 2. I have never figured out why people would go through all the trouble of the 20B and still use the stock twins. :) But I guess it's a personal thing. |
Originally posted by Aaron Cake Looks good! But two things: I have never figured out why people would go through all the trouble of the 20B and still use the stock twins. :) But I guess it's a personal thing. Here's another question. What are you using for a tranny? Will the 20b bolt up to a TII tranny? |
Well the thing is, it's a lot easier to swap the turbo(s) with the engine out of the car, and then you only have to tune it once.
Part of reliable power is using properly sized and efficient turbos for the power level you want. Overstressing the stock units to bump the power output is not necessarily reliable. :) I would hope that he is using the TII transmission. The 20B will bolt to both the TII and NA unit, as long as the proper clutch and flywheel is used. |
475 rwhp on a streetported 20b will be easy. Lots of guys put down 500-550 rwhp on stock twins 20b engines at 14-15 psi.
|
haha good luck on your under 10k budget...
do you plan to cut a hole in your hood to clear the thermostat housing? that would be free... and drive with no front sway bar?.. and good luck running the stock ecu... |
Originally posted by Scott 89t2 haha good luck on your under 10k budget... do you plan to cut a hole in your hood to clear the thermostat housing? that would be free... and drive with no front sway bar?.. and good luck running the stock ecu... I am not sure about his exact ones, but most 20B-> FC mounts also lower the engine enough that it clears the NA or TII hoods. The stock ECU does suck and is realllllly hard to get to work well. |
I'd like to see this guy actually get this together, instead of critizism, tell him what he should do to make his car have the most potential
|
umm the whole thing sounds great but I believe that you should visit the 20B forum in this website to actually get ur costs correct......talk to evil aviator(the admin for that section) and he will be able to give you the tips you need to actually put the engine in your car. I think that Scott89t2 has a couple very valid concerns involving the thermostat housing and the sway bar. I believe that evil aviator and his close friend had to redesign the thermostat housing from scratch and have a machine shop mill a piece of billet aluminum to the appropriate size..... and he had to have a custom sway bar made to clear the block. And finally.... I think a point brought up in the hundreds of 20b posts before all pointed at not being able to use the stock ecu from a cosmo .... so I think that you may be looking at another 1-10 grand based on a computer for the car.
|
i was about to ask the same thing about the ecu. supposedl the tecIII system can do it and microtech. the only downside i see to those, is cost (tecIII is like $2500) and tech support (unless you live in australia, microtech users seem harder to find). i'd love to see this thing come together for around $12k total, that'd give me a little more motivation to get it done. i wouldn't even need half of that crap (street port, rebuilt/modded turbos, dowells) to be happy. btw, how much does this engine weigh?
|
mu mu mu mu mu must have 3 rotor.................................... :)
|
how much would it cost to put an fd engine into a second gen.
|
Ok well I'll try and answer some of these questions.
Yes, I am running the stock TII drive train Yes, I am running the stock but yet highly modified twin turbos. I have seen this same setup make 450HP @ 5psi. I need to get this project going and it would be another year before I could afford a large single turbo, manifold, wastegate, downpipe, larger injectors, larger fuel pump, FPR, Fuel lines, suspension, Stand alone ECU, better clutch setup, and who knows the stock drive train might not even be able to keep up. Yes, I will be able to run the stock ECU because I have this... |
Oh well since you have that.......:cool:
|
Originally posted by Aaron Cake 2. I have never figured out why people would go through all the trouble of the 20B and still use the stock twins. :) But I guess it's a personal thing. Originally posted by FC_Iria Here's another question. What are you using for a tranny? Will the 20b bolt up to a TII tranny? Originally posted by Scott 89t2 haha good luck on your under 10k budget... do you plan to cut a hole in your hood to clear the thermostat housing? that would be free... and drive with no front sway bar?.. and good luck running the stock ecu... BTW, the stock 20B ECU was made to run the engine at under 300 bhp, and the stock injectors will not support more than 400 bhp @ 40 psig @ 80% duty cycle. Originally posted by Bridgeported The 20B->FC engine mounts he has alows you to do the swap and not alter or remove the stock sway bar. I am not sure about his exact ones, but most 20B-> FC mounts also lower the engine enough that it clears the NA or TII hoods. |
That big mess of wires is the complete wiring for the whole car adn contains one of the essential pplugs for the ECU. Most people don't get this with the engine.
FCDemon is also correct I want a reliable vehicle that can put out some serious power. Scott 89T2 you just need to do a little more research on your own. All of those problems have already been solved. BlackRX7 thanks for the positive reinforcement! Capn' Wankel why the hell should I visit some other thread to find out the costs that I'm already paying myself. All of the figures I posted were payed by me for the service described. Also, I am going to use the stock ECU (I've already figured out all of the wiring) so when I do you can let everyone know there wrong. Hope this answers some of the questions. Keep bringing them on. I like to tell people the truth instead of spreading something I heard on another website. Don't mean to sound like a dick but I hate it when people do that. I belive that if you don't personaly know or if you haven't seen it in person then don't spread it around like you have. Thanks, UsfDr. (Sean) |
Evil Avaitar thanks for the added input. I have been worried about the swaybar issue but I wont be able to talk about it until I actually set the engine in the car with the mounts I have. As for the stock ECU problems there are many things that FC owners do right now to overcome the stock maps of ECU's: S-AFC, FCD, piggybacks, standalone fuel management. I'll let you know exactly what the stock ECU can do once I get it running and on a dyno but right now we all are really just talking shit. since the aren't that many people running the stock ECU (other than Cosmo guys) we really just don't know what it can do except for what we read or hear about.
I also agree with you about the stock twin versus large single situation. I have thought about it many a nights and after carefull consideration I decided to go with the twins. Please feel free to add more as I too need to gather as much information as possible from people who have actually done or are doing this conversion. Thanks, UsfDr |
regardless of how sure you are about this, i dont think the stock ecu is going to be able to keep up with 500 whp. i hope everything works though, and i want to see you prove me wrong about the ecu :)
question: do you have any pics of the car and all the stuff you bought (other than the engine)? |
Originally posted by usfdr Evil Avaitar thanks for the added input. I have been worried about the swaybar issue but I wont be able to talk about it until I actually set the engine in the car with the mounts I have. As for the stock ECU problems there are many things that FC owners do right now to overcome the stock maps of ECU's: S-AFC, FCD, piggybacks, standalone fuel management. I'll let you know exactly what the stock ECU can do once I get it running and on a dyno but right now we all are really just talking shit. since the aren't that many people running the stock ECU (other than Cosmo guys) we really just don't know what it can do except for what we read or hear about. Just in case you didn't see it, we have a 20B subforum hidden under the Rotary Performance forum. In there you will find a thread indicating that a rotary performance shop may soon market custom 20B oil pans which will clear the stock swaybar. I would have done this myself, but a one-off custom oil pan and plumbing would have cost much more than a custom swaybar. If they can keep the cost down to the price of a custom swaybar, then I think that this would be the way to go. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=134563 Also, one of our forum members has already gotten the 20B to work with the stock JC Cosmo ECU. You may want to get more info on this, as it is not as simple as it sounds. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=80390 http://www.agt.net/public/nowback/rx7club/20b/ |
I was wondering... with 500rwhp..
Are you going to need to upgrade the FC diff or brakes? |
Good stuff! Keep the info coming :cool:
Evil Aviator knows what hes talking about since he did this conversion himself. Check out the 20B section for more info on the install. Maybe something on there will help you out before you get stuck doing something. Keep the pics coming too :p: |
The best possible 20B conversion advice you can get is from Evil Aviator and Kurgan. They are gods!
|
Damn Evil look at that wiring mess that guy had no wonder he had ahard time getting it going. I didn't have to do nearly that much work. The coils on the main harness is already separated from the rest of it some of the needless plugs just had to be removed. I'm not realy doing anything else to my car until after the holiday.
Anyway, somone wanted to see some more pictures let me find some. Also, if somone knows how to post a bunch on one reply let me know. |
Some more pics. Yes, the car does need a paint job. This is the original paint so you can see tis never been in an accident.
|
that's going to be one nice s5 when it's done!
|
God those BBS wheels need to go. I can't wait to put on my new ones when they get here.
|
Every single electrical thing on this car works perfectly, ie. antenna, wiper switch, door locks....
Hey, you can also see the convertible in the back I'm going to restore and convert to a 91. |
This car has nice interior
|
Some more of the inside
|
Heres what the wheels look like. I should be getting them soon. 17x7 and 17x9
|
Honestly, I dont think that a stock ECU from a cosmo is even going to work at all in an FC. Everything I have read about this conversion(which is a lot) points to haltech because it simply wont work. I would consult RETed or Evil Aviator, because I am in no means the expert on 20B conversions
|
Well here is the deal. I'm going to try and use the stock ECU on this conversion. If it works, and I am pretty damn sure it will, I will let you know. If it doesn't I have no problem swallowing my pride and telling you guys the truth. My goal is to build a reliable FC with lots of power and then tell you guys exactly what I did and how much it cost. I'm doing this to benifit everyone not to make me look like I know everything. There are no secrets here. I am by no means building the fastest car out there so there is no reason for me to keep things from you guys. Rest assured some time shortly you will get all of the info needed to do this project. Thanks for all of the support.
|
Oh, and I will definately post everything I do to get the stock ECU to work as there seems to be a bit of a controversy.
|
well i guess somebody got it to work, but it took the entire front clip of a cosmo to do it...........
|
What they needed was the complete main wiring harness for the entire car and the engine. I have that.
|
finished product :)
Noticed your car is a white s5 so heres a pic of my buddy Marlin's 20B.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=1335784 and his buildup website. http://www.can-saf.com/modules.php?...=view_photo.php |
oops
double post..
|
Hey thanks for the website. I'll check it out.
|
But he used a Haltec, so it probably won't be much help to you since you are using the stock ECU. Let's face it, physically installing the engine is a piece of cake. :) The real trouble is getting the damn thing to run...
|
I appreciate the kind words from everyone, even though they aren't quite accurate. Just to set the record straight, my 20B car doesn't run yet, as I still need to finish the intercooler plumbing, install the EMS and other electrical components, and resolve the transmission issues. I am not a mechanic, and I have had a great deal of help from very qualified mechanics, fabricators, and Mazda-sponsored race team members. You will find that most people with a 20B RX-7 had a lot of help with the conversion process. This is NOT something that the average person can do in their home garage. Also note that with all his electrical expertise, even the great RETed couldn't figure out how to make the stock JC Cosmo ECU work in an RX-7. Now got the stock ECU to work (at least somewhat), and I believe he had help from the Cosmo gurus at www.3rotor.com
Originally posted by usfdr Damn Evil look at that wiring mess that guy had no wonder he had ahard time getting it going. I didn't have to do nearly that much work. The coils on the main harness is already separated from the rest of it some of the needless plugs just had to be removed. |
Hey Evil yeah I know the ECU looks for all that stuff. The only thing I don't have is the Auto Tranny (which I'm not going to get), and the Air flow meter which I am in the process of getting, if anyone has one I'll take it. I have everything else. I'm really not into the wiring phase yet but when I am I'll be sure to ask some more questions about it.
UsfDr |
HOW MUCH YA WNT FOR THE STOCK RIMS? ill buy em from ya , how much ya want?
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands