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-   -   Mostly OEM S5 Turbo Vert build (https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/mostly-oem-s5-turbo-vert-build-989919/)

JustJeff 03-04-12 08:51 AM

Mostly OEM S5 Turbo Vert build
 
I have a JDM S5 13B that was swapped into my 89 vert by AIM Tuning in Indy. That swap was done several years ago, I think in 06 when I joined these forums. I bought the engine from Atkins, no they don't typically import engines, but I got a tip that if I called Dan he might be able to hook me up. The engine arrived looking super clean and seemed to have good compression so it went into my vert with no rebuild. At the time my only aftermarket performance experience was...well NONE!! However, I drove it for about 3 years as a daily driver with the only issues my own creation. I learned alot over the years but prior to this project my experience was limited to swapping larger fuel injectors and fuel pumps, rebuilding vert window regulators, wiring stereos and aftermarket gauges.

About a year and a half ago I detonated the engine. I had RB REV-TII exhaust, custom TID, larger secondary injectors, and an FD fuel pump, but no fuel or timing control...so it was a matter of time.

Here are the 3 verts my father and I own prior to detonation. Turbo vert is in the background.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5996719_n.jpg

During the rebuild process I decided to swap the drivetrain into the black vert that is in the foreground.

There's the car minus the engine just before it went into storage
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4965572_n.jpg

Engine prior to teardown
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...2_463847_n.jpg

Apex seal failure on the front rotor
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...59_18507_n.jpg

Front housing was damaged
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5277302_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7909889_n.jpg

Damage to the front rotor
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2441836_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2380890_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5515246_n.jpg


Stationary gear bearings were replaced
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...1_333458_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2267177_n.jpg

Housing and rotor were replaced. The turbo wasn't damaged, but it did have a decent amount of play so it was replaced also.

Kinda cool pic I ended up getting while trying to get pics of the irons.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6681630_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 09:15 AM

I used Atkins 2mm seals, I used new side seals, replaced all the springs (including oil control ring springs), FD corner springs, and used plugs rather than solid corner seals. I also replaced the stat gear bearings.

Stat gear pressing did not go well. First machine shop I took them to butchered my bearings. All the marks I took pictures of were not simply scuff or marks on the oil they used. They were all scratches to varying degrees that you could feel.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...1_669481_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8303356_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2906292_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5026294_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...85_89895_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5994817_n.jpg


Machine shop bought me new bearings, but not without trying to tell me he didn't see any problems with the work and he'd put them in his engine. For obvious reasons I took them to another shop to have pressed. I only got one shot of replaced and pressed bearing
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...37769614_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 09:32 AM

I painted the housings and irons with rattle can and polished the logos for the hell of it. I used HVT high temp.
Irons are VHT burnt copper.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3249281_n.jpg

I originally did the intakes the same color.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...8_667826_n.jpg

However, I decided to have intakes, pulleys, and other parts powder coated. I found an industrial powdercoater who did them super cheap. It's not the best quality, but the price was right.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7939820_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6237241_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7102381_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1756477_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6249159_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 09:48 AM

I made the mistake of using Crisco instead of Hylomar. I probably would have been fine, but mid assembly I find that a couple of my water jackets are cracked at the seams. Being my first time doing a rebuild I didn't trust myself to repair them and opted to have new ones sent to me.

The two replacement seals arrive a week or so later and I start assembly and find that the previously good seals had expanded and were now too long to fit in the grooves. I ordered all new seals and third time on assembling the engine went smoothly.

I don't think I have any pics of this, if I find them I'll post them. Point being though. Don't use Crisco, it's not worth the cost savings over a tube of Hylomar.

JustJeff 03-04-12 09:56 AM

I bought a turbo blanket from Summit Racing. My OEM bracket had come apart. The spot welds on the brackets that bolt it down were coming loose. I figured putting something new on was better than a 20 yr old part.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TNT-31040/

While assembling the engine I wanted to make sure it would fit so I mocked up the manifolds.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2848644_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3952725_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5008629_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 10:02 AM

One thing I found while testing play on the rotating assembly was that I had too much. I had put a new (to me) front housing on and that was enough to throw things off a bit. Rather than buy a new spacer I carefully sanded down the one I had. I sanded a little and measured it in four places. Then sanded more and measured, etc etc. It was a long process but I got it down to where it was perfectly within spec.

JustJeff 03-04-12 10:09 AM

I rebuilt my OMP/MOP lines. I used this thread and it went without any problems. It's a very easy mod that is cheap and effective.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...45311743_n.jpg

I pulled the sleaving off my old lines. I know some people like having the lines viewable so they have a visual on whether their pump is working or not. I found that at the top before they go under the intake you have line of sight and can see.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...42678868_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...38070561_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...19454605_n.jpg

I broke one of the nipples on the vacuum splitter and had to use a different source for one of the injectors
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...47161681_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 10:19 AM

There it is before install with an ACT street clutch and pressure plate.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...36240068_n.jpg

Not the best quality pic...but meh
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...51308760_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...82451663_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 10:28 AM

Prior to detonation I had added a Prosport temp gauge. I'm not using an airpump so I had the housing tapped for the sender.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7022464_n.jpg

I was afraid that the sender wouldn't make enough contact with the coolant. It was probably fine, but I didn't want to get everything back together and find it wasn't.
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7156973_n.jpg

I had a machinist grind some material off the front
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3706208_n.jpg

I didn't know if the two senders being so close was a bad thing so I use a washer or two on the front to back it off a little bit.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6003974_n.jpg

JustJeff 03-04-12 10:55 AM

Everything went into a 1990 black vert...the one in the first picture. I've swapped the entire subframe from the previous turbo vert onto the new turbo vert.

  • Rtek 1.7 on an N370
  • FD fuel pump
  • 800cc secondary injectors
  • Racing Beat REV-TII exhaust
  • Custom TID
  • Hallman MBC
  • ACT Street clutch and pressure plate
  • S4 LSD
  • Tein springs on Illuminas
  • Infini strut bar
  • Koyo radiator with Taurus efan
  • 140 amp modded S5 alternator (still need to get a dual belt pulley)
  • Optima red top
  • Greddy v2 boost gauge (sender might have gone bad..it stopped reading)
  • Prosport performance water and oil temp gauges (water temp gauge is buggy)
  • Prosport premium oil pressure gauge (sender on this one also might be bad, it never reads anything but zero)

JustJeff 03-04-12 11:08 AM

I've got like 350 miles on the engine so far. MBC is set to zero and I keep the RPMs under 3k. I talked to a paint guy this past week. Plans are to have my turbo hood, MS scoop, OEM sideskirts and OEM replica front lip painted.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...14504194_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...56527416_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...99467139_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...78246923_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...80152442_n.jpg

I started prep work on the body parts, paint guy is going to finish
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...64081640_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...94292814_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...11829554_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...08458108_n.jpg

jackhild59 03-04-12 01:16 PM

Nice. Is the S4 limited slip an N/A unit or a TII unit?

JustJeff 03-04-12 07:50 PM


Originally Posted by jackhild59 (Post 11004390)
Nice. Is the S4 limited slip an N/A unit or a TII unit?

It's a turbo differential and an OEM turbo driveshaft.

JustJeff 03-04-12 08:16 PM

I was going to do something cool today, but it hasn't panned out yet. I was going to wire my constant power for the efan directly onto the main fuse links in the engine compartment. I have an unused fuse link open. The spades on the bottom of the distribution block (for lack of a better word) are wider than traditional spades. So I was going to grind the open one down with my dremel. Remove the inline fuse holder and take the 10 ga contant power to the fuse link.

It did not pan out because I could not get my spade to insert all the way into the OEM harness. My other option and less desirable one is to cut that blank spot off of the OEM harness. It's unused and if I need to I can cut it off with my dremel and plug the spade female directly onto the distribution block. However I lost my good cutting bit and was out of the cheap ones cause they break too often.

I was also going to remove my battery/alternator/starter wiring and replace it with upgraded wiring. I looked over some spare harnesses and they weren't as I expected. I thought it was main + off the battery terminal to the alternator B terminal and the starter off of the fuse link distribution block. For the record it appears to be alternator off of the fuse link distribution and + terminal directly to the starter...which once I slowed myself down and thought about it made more sense.

Reason I'm doing this is because I"m getting strange electrical gremlins.
  1. Alternator is occasionally overcharging by a little bit...or according to the OEM gauge it is.
  2. My rear defroster only works sporadically.
  3. Boost gauge mysteriously stopped working. It illuminates but doesn't even do an opening ceremony.
  4. Prosport oil pressure warning gauge has never read anything but zero...and to make it worse it mocks me by blinking and chiming to make sure I know it's not working. It was unplugged a long time ago and I'll get to it when I have time.

I don't expect replacing the OEM ground and power from the battery to change many of those. It is simply a starting point for upgraded wiring for aftermarket stereo.

One thing I did get done was swapping JDM foglights for USDM ones. I got them for a steal of deal. I restored the lenses and they are pretty nifty. One night I'll line up my fathers USDM foglights with my JDM ones and get a pic.

JustJeff 03-13-12 12:04 AM

Found the cure to an annoying idle/exhaust noise problem that has been plaguing me since a little while after the engine was first turned over. Idle just wasn't sounding right, like it was missing. I found the problem tonight. Fouled plugs on the front rotor combined with the spark plug wire boot sitting kinda loosely on the front leading plug. I probably pulled it loose while running wiring for efan and such. Changed the plugs while changing the oil and it is running great!

I've got the fan wired into the fuse link distribution, it's working well.

I've got 4ga wiring running from + terminal to starter as well as B terminal on alternator. I've also got 8ga going to main fuses. I've got 4ga ground running to shock tower and continuing to starter through bolt.

7speed 03-13-12 02:29 AM

Really nice build man. Looks like you and your dad have a good collection going

JustJeff 05-27-12 07:58 AM

I'm having overheating issues with the engine. I'm using a Taurus efan and Starion thermoswitch in factory location on the back of the water pump housing. Starion switch IIRC is a 195 on and 185 off. I also have a manual on switch wired to cockpit of the car. Fan seems to be working perfectly. I have it wired directly into the main fuselink in the engine compartment on the low setting. I have it setup so that I can swap between to high setting by simply unplugging the low spade terminal and plugging in the high.

Here is what I've noticed so far with normal driving (not driving it hard as I'm still breaking in the engine). Temps will keeping rising and rising and when they start to pass 220 I'll pull the car over and either let it idle with the efan running and hood up or turn off the engine but let the efan run and every so often turn the engine on to cycle what is in the radiator back into the engine.

Here are the contributing factors I've tried to narrow down so far:
  1. Put in a new thermostat and while doing that changed to a different used, but working water pump. (It was working fine last time I used it, can mechanical pumps fail?)
  2. N/A hood was being used. While I've been driving to avoid boost as much as possible. The Hallman MBC is set to zero boost, but I need to watch how I'm driving. The OEM wastegate simply can't fully bypass. I thought that perhaps because the MBC was not allowing the engine to be in vacuum that it was contributing to heat. By that I mean it may be purging as much of the pressure as it can, it's also trying to keep pressure at zero. That perhaps rather than having vacuum having zero pressure is still pressurized compared to vacuum and thus creates heat. That theory was partially blown out of the water, I put a turbo hood on it yesterday hoping to see lower temps...and did not. (Before it is said, I'm using N/A hood until I get paint work done on the turbo hood and other parts. I keep thinking paint is going to happen and it hasn't yet.)

Other than obvious things where can I start looking for a cure?
  1. Flushing radiator and cooling system. Should I flush the heater core seperately?
  2. Testing the radiator cap. What pressure cap should a S5 13B T have?
  3. Possibly a clogged oil cooler?
  4. I have air pump removed and so far only a single belt alt pulley. I had a dual belt pulley with my last alt but usually only used one because of belt slipping. Never had issues with heating.


The engine parts and car did sit for almost a year while the rebuild happened. Is it possible I've got a clogged cooling system or oil cooler? I have both oil and water temp gauges and oil temps seem to be where they should be.

beefhole 05-27-12 09:22 AM

Get the double pulley, flush the coolant, and clean the radiator and oil coolers externally.

I have a FMIC, NO UNDERTRAY (I am trying to make on though), stock clutch fan and radiator and my car doesn't go over 195 when driving. It even runs cooler city than on highway!

You definitely have a problem.

clokker 05-27-12 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by beefhole (Post 11104216)
It even runs cooler city than on highway!

You definitely have a problem.

So do you, I think.
Highway driving is essentially the best case scenario for the cooling system, if city driving gives you lower temps, I'd say you have airflow/ducting issues to address.

beefhole 05-27-12 09:48 AM

Captain obvious! I already mentioned my own lack of undertray. A situation I am addressing.

clokker 05-27-12 09:55 AM

I've never seen much difference with/without the factory undertray.

Sincerely,
Captain Semi-obscure

beefhole 05-27-12 10:09 AM

Then you should take yours off, and give it to me (for free of course, you pay shipping) if it is in good shape. I will further investigate this lack of difference you so speak of!

Rob XX 7 05-27-12 10:22 AM

Water pumps can actually fail and not have the tell tale leak, but do the basics first including the dual belt

jackhild59 05-27-12 12:07 PM

OEM rad cap is 13 psi pressure.

You have the A/C system intact, with the condenser coil in front of the rad? Is all the sealing in place?

Question: After it attains 220* have you let the car cool while idling? Will it cool down?

You do know that once that temp switch comes on, it is highly unlikely that the temp will ever go back below 185* to allow the fan to cycle off in warm (over 80*) weather.

Forget the low speed, use high until you have this sorted out.

jackhild59 05-27-12 12:13 PM

I'm betting on the Yoo-Hoo Belt to fix it
 
I'm betting on the Yoo-Hoo Belt to fix it. That 130 Amp Taurus Alternator is on the same belt, right?:nod: I bet it's slipping, especially when the Taurus fan is running. Remember that Taurus Alt must create the electricity to run that fan. This might be not be as high a load as the oem belt fan, but if you are also running other accessories it would probably cause slipping.

One other random thought: I bought a reman water pump from one of the chain stores. The impeller was an appalling miscarriage cast piece of sheit. I used my die grinder to reshape and clean up the blades and the flash. I used the oem impeller as a template-BUT my car has *never* cooled as well with that water pump as it did with the oem.

How did the impellers compare?

Nevertheless, double pulley, or simply a yoo-hoo belt.:icon_tup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dDuB
Now, as far as where to get the belt, don't go to a hardware store like the how-to says, I went to so many and couldn't find anything that would fit. I did however come across this. It is from napa, perfect size. You can order it online or get it at any store, here's the info on it.

Item#: NBH257215
Price: $ 8.49
Imperial Length: 22 1/8''
Top Width: 3/8''
Angle Degree: 36 Degree

jackhild59 05-27-12 12:20 PM

..

JustJeff 05-27-12 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Rob XX 7 (Post 11104257)
Water pumps can actually fail and not have the tell tale leak, but do the basics first including the dual belt

Haven't noticed any seeping from hole yet and not loosing any coolant. I'm getting a yoohoo belt till I decide what to do bout a dual pulley. I have a modded alt and would like to find a overdrive dual pulley for charging at idle.

jackhild59 05-27-12 12:29 PM

More YOO HOO belt info:

The part # is: Gate's Power rated #6822

JustJeff 05-27-12 12:50 PM

I'm sitting in the basement trying to reply with a smartphone...when a computer is upstairs....was getting ready to go swimming! :nod: Now that I am at the computer I can reply easier....


Originally Posted by jackhild59 (Post 11104327)
OEM rad cap is 13 psi pressure.

You have the A/C system intact, with the condenser coil in front of the rad? Is all the sealing in place?

Question: After it attains 220* have you let the car cool while idling? Will it cool down?

You do know that once that temp switch comes on, it is highly unlikely that the temp will ever go back below 185* to allow the fan to cycle off in warm (over 80*) weather.

Forget the low speed, use high until you have this sorted out.

I pulled the koyo rad and oil cooler for engine swap. The ac condesnor stayed in place. I am missing some of the foam that helped seal the oil cooler. When I mounted my taurus fan I used foam to help seal it. I did notice one of my metal zip ties is not holding one corner down very well. I'll address that as well as check the other corners.

It does cool down once I let the car sit idling with efan running. It will cool at idle with the hood down, but cools much quicker when I raise the hood.

And you read my mind about switching to high till this is sorted.


Originally Posted by jackhild59 (Post 11104332)
I'm betting on the Yoo-Hoo Belt to fix it. That 130 Amp Taurus Alternator is on the same belt, right?:nod: I bet it's slipping, especially when the Taurus fan is running. Remember that Taurus Alt must create the electricity to run that fan. This might be not be as high a load as the oem belt fan, but if you are also running other accessories it would probably cause slipping.

One other random thought: I bought a reman water pump from one of the chain stores. The impeller was an appalling miscarriage cast piece of sheit. I used my die grinder to reshape and clean up the blades and the flash. I used the oem impeller as a template-BUT my car has *never* cooled as well with that water pump as it did with the oem.

How did the impellers compare?

Nevertheless, double pulley, or simply a yoo-hoo belt.:icon_tup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dDuB
Now, as far as where to get the belt, don't go to a hardware store like the how-to says, I went to so many and couldn't find anything that would fit. I did however come across this. It is from napa, perfect size. You can order it online or get it at any store, here's the info on it.

Item#: NBH257215
Price: $ 8.49
Imperial Length: 22 1/8''
Top Width: 3/8''
Angle Degree: 36 Degree

I've got a modded S5 alt for 140 amps. Right now I'm not digging it simply because my car sat and the battery is already weak. It not seeing 14v at idle is quite frustrating when you want your car to idle and cool from the efan and hoping your car battery doesn't crap out and leave you stranded in 97 degree heat... For now I'm ok holding rpms at 1k to keep the battery charging, but a dual overdrive pulley sure would be nice...of course then I have heat and extra wear.

Kind of a topic for a different thread. But my OEM crap volt gauge shows 14v at idle. BUT when I test the alt and battery with a multitester is see 12v.

For the water pump I'm not sure which I'm using. I have an OEM from the n/a engine and I have a reman that I got from Rock Auto. Accessory type parts got mixed while I assembled the turbo and tore down the n/a. Neither pump gave me any issues before rebuild/teardown.

As I remember it the impellers all looked identical on all three that I've used.


Originally Posted by jackhild59 (Post 11104350)
More YOO HOO belt info:

The part # is: Gate's Power rated #6822

Nice find on both part numbers. I was gonna end up ordering the 3L220

JustJeff 05-27-12 12:52 PM

One important variable I hadn't considered till just now....I have powder coated pulleys. I had the main and water pump pulleys done in black. I would not be at all surprised if the smoother surface is also letting the single belt slip once RPMs rise above idle.

JustJeff 05-30-12 09:04 PM

Picked up the Napa belt Item#: NBH257215 and there is no way on earth it's stretching. I tried getting it on the main pulley first but I can't even get the belt over the bolts on the water pump pulley. I tried turning the main pulley with a socket wrench to spin it even over the bolts and at least get it on the flat surface ahead of the pulley groove....no go.

Part of my problem is that I have both p/s and a/c sections on the main pulley and trying to have the belt in the groove on the main pulley puts the belt at too much of an angle to work it on to the water pump pulley. I suppose I could try taking the p/s and a/c pulleys off the main. BUT now I'm thinking I'll buy one of the dual pulleys in standard size. I have soooo many damn alt pulleys from trying to match my previous alt (FD) that this sounds like the best next course of action.

JustJeff 05-31-12 07:46 AM

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...59320769_o.jpg

I ordered a dual belt pulley from Banzai this morning

jal301 05-31-12 07:38 PM

I installed this belt recently and it is a bitch. This was my second attempt in so many years. I ended up removing both the pump pulley and the main pulley bolts, installing the belt, then trying to slide the pulleys back on but that didn't work. Ultimately I ended up getting it completely around the main pulley, installing longer bolts into the pump pulley and allowing them to stick out a bit, then using them as leverage against the little 'nub' that sticks out of the middle of the pulley with a screw driver (use a heavy one) to driver the pulley around until the belt was completely around both pulleys. You'll most likely bend these bolts used for leverage so plan on scrapping them. You have to also guide it straight into the pump pulley with your other hand or else it will begin to twist further than you want as it gets driven in. Now that I think about it, I may have even had the main pulley loose as I spun the pump pulley, then spun it further once the belt was on in order to get the main pulley aligned to get the bolts installed again.

Basically, this should really be enough evidence to convince us that this is a 'hokey' fix. I guess it's worth it if you can make it work but there are definitely better options when the funds become available.

Good luck.

JustJeff 05-31-12 10:06 PM


Originally Posted by jal301 (Post 11108935)

Basically, this should really be enough evidence to convince us that this is a 'hokey' fix. I guess it's worth it if you can make it work but there are definitely better options when the funds become available.

Good luck.

Already decided that! I could tell last night that it was going to be more work than it was worth. It seemed like one of those jobs I'd never want to do again. The idea of getting that thing on and then for whatever reason needing to replace the alt belt behind it was enough for me to hop online and order the pulley from Banzai.... that I should have ordered in the first place and a couple months ago.

I'm still going to try and find a dual pulley but smaller for overdrive but I'm not very optimistic I'll have much luck.

JustJeff 06-04-12 10:02 PM

The dual belt pulley arrived over the weekend. Got it on and took the car for a drive tonight. There was definitely some belt slip going on before the dual belt. The low level chirp noise I previously heard at idle was gone. But by the time I got to my destination there was a high pitch noise at idle that was not previously there before my drive.

It was a cooler night than when I took the car on the same drive on Memorial weekend in 100° heat. Did not heat up nearly as fast and temps were dropping as I sat at lights with the fan going....but they did get to just below 220.
  1. I've checked my radiator hoses they aren't collapsing.
  2. I did what I could to test for cold spots on the radiator but did not have time to take the undertray off and feel the front of the radiator. I simply stuck my hand between fan blades and felt with my fingers...all the spots I could check seemed the same temp.
  3. The top passenger corner of the fan shroud does not sit snuggly at all. I can pull it off the radiator by about 1/3 of an inch. I'll resecure that, but I wouldn't think it would have that much of an effect.
  4. I'll go through and put some foam around oil cooler, condensor and radiator...just to make sure.

One thing I'm curious about. Is my oil cooler. It seems like I have a pinhole somewhere in the oilcooler. I keep finding oil pooling up on the bottom of the radiator and in other strange places around the oil cooler. I had a failure on one of my oil cooler hoses on one of my first drives after rebuild. It created a fountain of oil. I had thought that oil on the bottom of the radiator was simply gravity from me not being able to get the oil cleaned up off of everything (ie: fan blades, fan shroud, etc). Reason I bring this up is I'm curious if I do have a pinhole and I am loosing hot oil..and it happens to be on the radiator fins...seems like that could cause the radiator to not cool as well. Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

JustJeff 06-15-12 08:32 AM

Update:

Dual belt pulley on, switched from low to high wiring on the taurus fan. Bought a new radiator cap. Unrelated to overheating problems. I've taken the a/c compressor off flushed and filled with ester oil in prep for my converting over to R152a.

Took the car for short drives the last couple nights. Both on cool nights so it's not the best test. One without the hood and temps never got to 200. As I was pulling the car into the garage temps got to 200, my efan had not kicked on yet so I manual toggled it on and temps dropped like expected. Last night I took it for a drive after putting the hood on. Temps rose to 200 and my efan had not kicked on yet. I toggled it on and temps dropped...and quickly. Cooling system is acting as expected. Temps rise to just below 180 and hold for a good amount of time. Thermostat seems to be opening like it should, radiator holds temps for a while then they start to go up again.

I'm a lil concerned about my temp switch, it should be a 195 on and 185 off and it's not telling the fan to kick on till temps get just above 200. Gauge sender and temp switch are virtually in the same spot. Temp sender is on the front of the water pump housing just below the thermostat and the switch is in the factory location on the back of the water pump housing. I thought I purchased a Starion switch 195/185....it's acting more like a 205?

Also my 40amp fuse link blew at some point between me turning off the fan while driving. I waited till temps dropped to 180 and turned it off. Got back to the garage and by that point temps were just over 200 and fan had not come on. Flipped the manual switch and no fan. Turned the engine off and fuse link had blown. My understanding is that high setting is 40 amp. If my wiring is correct and I'm using fuse links (less likely to blow) that my fuse should not have popped. If I'm using high speed on the fan should I go to 50amp fuse links?

jackhild59 06-15-12 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by JustJeff (Post 11125304)
Update:

I'm a lil concerned about my temp switch, it should be a 195 on and 185 off and it's not telling the fan to kick on till temps get just above 200. Gauge sender and temp switch are virtually in the same spot. Temp sender is on the front of the water pump housing just below the thermostat and the switch is in the factory location on the back of the water pump housing. I thought I purchased a Starion switch 195/185....it's acting more like a 205?

Also my 40amp fuse link blew at some point between me turning off the fan while driving. I waited till temps dropped to 180 and turned it off. Got back to the garage and by that point temps were just over 200 and fan had not come on. Flipped the manual switch and no fan. Turned the engine off and fuse link had blown. My understanding is that high setting is 40 amp. If my wiring is correct and I'm using fuse links (less likely to blow) that my fuse should not have popped. If I'm using high speed on the fan should I go to 50amp fuse links?

I have a 200*/185 switch from Summit that comes on at 185* and never goes off. Had it in the radiator and in the water pump. Same temps. This may not be a precision device...:rolleyes:

Regarding the fan fusable link: The taurus fan pulls 27 amps on high. I measured it myself. You have some other problem.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1218131420

Are you referring to a fusable link placed in the underhood fuse panel? I did this a couple of years ago. It looked so very OEM, neat and clean. I had to stop using that location because of melting fusables. 30 amp and 40 amp would melt the housings, but NOT blow the link. I melted several 30 and then one 40 amp.

I went to a 30 amp automatic resetting circuit breaker using 30/40 amp relays with 1/4" lugs. 10 gauge wiring on both the power-high/low and the ground. I've had *no* wiring trouble for over 1 year.

JustJeff 06-15-12 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by jackhild59 (Post 11125471)
I have a 200*/185 switch from Summit that comes on at 185* and never goes off. Had it in the radiator and in the water pump. Same temps. This may not be a precision device...:rolleyes:

Regarding the fan fusable link: The taurus fan pulls 27 amps on high. I measured it myself. You have some other problem.
https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1218131420

Are you referring to a fusable link placed in the underhood fuse panel? I did this a couple of years ago. It looked so very OEM, neat and clean. I had to stop using that location because of melting fusables. 30 amp and 40 amp would melt the housings, but NOT blow the link. I melted several 30 and then one 40 amp.

I went to a 30 amp automatic resetting circuit breaker using 30/40 amp relays with 1/4" lugs. 10 gauge wiring on both the power-high/low and the ground. I've had *no* wiring trouble for over 1 year.

I"ll have to check my records and see if I still have the invoice from ordering the Starion switch. I doubt I still have it It's been almost two years, but as I remember it I bought it because it was 195 on and matched thread pattern of the OEM location. I mentioned to my father the temp difference between when the fan is supposed to kick on and when it actually kicks on and he brought up a good point...that there is probably a margin of error.

The other possibility is that I'm using a couple of used (did not purchase them new) Prosport gauges for water and oil temp. It's of course possible that the water temp one is not reading correctly.

I may go buy an amp meter after work.....or hell just down the road from my job is a car stereo shop. Maybe they let me borrow one of their's...or I drive my car to them and let them check it while I wait.

With the fan wiring it looks like I'm following the same process that you did with your fan. I do have my wiring going through the main fuse block and I did it for the neat OEM look..well that and I read that fuselinks are less likely to blow because they warm up slowly. And YES!! they do get warm. From the get-go I've noticed them being warm, but so far as I remember this is first one to blow..but also the first time I've used the high speed with the fuselink...it took one drive to pop it. Why is the main fuse relay a problematic spot? It seemed logical to use that area. Is it that the distribution can't handle the added current when combined with all the other fuses on that same block?

I am also using 30/40 relay (only one in my setup) and also have 10ga wiring. I bought a circuit breaker when I first started working bugs out of my efan setup, but have not started using it. I work on my car 15 min away from both my home and any shopping areas. My folks have a spacious garage and I can share tools with my father :). Downside is that I tend to try and buy EVERYTHING I think I might need for a job.

Here is the wiring diagram for my efan
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...09616596_n.jpg

JustJeff 06-15-12 09:05 PM

oh...two things

I have not added the idle up yet

And I noobish question...but is my reseting circuit breaker directional? They have one copper pole and one not. I Googled thinking it would be a simple answer and turned up nothing.

jackhild59 06-16-12 11:06 PM

Copper is toward the power. Not sure it matters much, but that is the intent.

JustJeff 06-17-12 09:40 AM

Was ready yesterday to take my car for a drive in the heat of day to test the cooling and fan....TPS is apparently out now. Narrow tests fine on the low range but then jumps from low range spectrum (.8-2-3ohms..can't remember the exact numbers) to 6ohms without any range on the high end. I think upper end is like 4-6ohms. Mine goes dead from 3ish ohms and sees nothing till 6ohms. Going back down it will see 6ohms and see something in the upper 4s and lower5s...but on the way up it sees nothing from 3ish till 6. Full range seems fine and I have two N/A tps one of them with a good narrow range and bad full range. Time to solder....

JustJeff 06-17-12 12:34 PM

Well....recharged batteries in the multitester bring different results today than yesterday. Yesterday the low battery indicator was coming on, it was shutting down and all I had were dead rechargables. Today the TPS shows much more normal range.

Though there is a dead range on full range WOT. I've tested 4 different TPS, one of them on a bone stock perfectly operating n/a. Every one of them has a dead range on WOT range from mid 3.0 ohms to mid 4.0 ohms.

For the time being I'm going to put the old TPS on and see what happens. I don't want to hack up wiring unless I need to.

JustJeff 06-22-12 07:01 PM

Learned some interesting things today.
  1. My efan is pulling air through on low but pushing air on high..?? Only thing that I thought I was changing when I go from low to high was swapping the low and high fused/circuit breaker wire coming off the battery. I have spade terminal crimps on each wire and until I worked out my cooling problems I was swapping between them. I hadn't noticed the pushing air issue because I have not been using high at all. I just swapped to high this past week or weekend. Obviously something is up with my wiring.
  2. All of my electrical accessories surge higher when RPMs go up. Well, lights and now the efan is all I've noticed thus far) I've been told this is normal and I've noticed it on other cars. BUT after rebuild and swap this car and engine are doing it to more of an extreme. I was reminded of it today because I've been playing with both my efans (I have two, one is beat up and I use it for testing) Both of them the fan speed increases when I go above idle. Same thing happens with lights. Like I said I've been told this is normal, but I've driven the same engine before rebuild, I've owned other S5 cars...none of them have the lights brighten to the extent this car does after rebuild. One of the reasons I pulled the factory battery/alt harness and ran new wiring is because I was hoping new wiring would fix that annoying issues. Maybe it's more than just an annoyance.

clokker 06-22-12 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by JustJeff (Post 11133756)
Learned some interesting things today.[LIST=1][*]My efan is pulling air through on low but pushing air on high..?? Only thing that I thought I was changing when I go from low to high was swapping the low and high fused/circuit breaker wire coming off the battery. I have spade terminal crimps on each wire and until I worked out my cooling problems I was swapping between them. I hadn't noticed the pushing air issue because I have not been using high at all. I just swapped to high this past week or weekend. Obviously something is up with my wiring.

I think you need to reexamine your observations of this phenomenon...because basically, it ain't possible. Both speeds share a common ground, which you are not changing, so the motors polarity is not changing.
Secondly, to change from push to pull the blades must be inverted...again, something you are not doing.

I don't know how to explain what you think you're seeing but it's be easy to confirm visually...does the fan spin in different directions with different speeds?

JustJeff 06-22-12 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by clokker (Post 11133801)
I think you need to reexamine your observations of this phenomenon...because basically, it ain't possible. Both speeds share a common ground, which you are not changing, so the motors polarity is not changing.
Secondly, to change from push to pull the blades must be inverted...again, something you are not doing.

I don't know how to explain what you think you're seeing but it's be easy to confirm visually...does the fan spin in different directions with different speeds?

It was obvious they changed directions. I've been blowing fuses and throwing circuit breakers. I bought an temp gun and want to test when my switch is telling my fan to turn on. I thought I had put a 195 on switch, but my aftermarket gauge is reading above 200 before it turns on.

I have a spare taurus efan. The plan was this: Lay the spare fan on the radiator panel have it plugged into my cars wiring. Throw the manual switch and see if my circuit breaker resets. Tried it on low, tried it on high. The spare fan never reset the circuit breaker. Didn't matter how long it was on for, didn't matter if i was toggling it on or off. Turn the engine off. Swap the harness to the mounted efan. I have it on high. Start the engine, start the fan. I get out of the car to check my battery with my multitester to see what the fan on high is doing to my battery at idle. I have forced air blowing out from the bumper grill onto my shins and feet!!! Put my hand over the shroud to confirm what I didn't believe....it was sucking air from engine out and the radiator. With the engine still running I swapped the high wire with the low wire...it reversed direction and was sucking air from radiator and through the fan.

I wouldn't think it could be possible either. I have 3-wire fans. I would think it could only be 1 ground other 2 power.

JustJeff 06-24-12 05:09 PM

To confirm...yes the fan was pushing air on high and pulling air on low. I played with my spare fan and a battery. Yes they can spin opposite direction. Reverse polarity and it reverses direction.

What I had done to test before putting the fan on after I had put the engine in the car was simply use a spare battery and spare fan. I found low right away and assumed that high was the other pin. I had never used high until recently.

What I found today was that I had fan ground going to constant fused on the battery. I had low going to going to 87.

It is now corrected. I have high setup. Took the car for a drive to warm it up. Brought it back home at 190 to see when my temp switch triggers the fan at. Temp gun read 200 and the fan turned off at around 185-190. I manually turned on the fan and let it run and the circuit breaker never tripped. With temp at 200 and fan on I took the car for a drive. It was a short drive because I had to leave. BUT on that drive fan was on like normal. It turned off like normal at around 185-190. I knew it was a short drive so I manually turned it back on to test the circuit breaker. It never turned off. I tried keeping the RPMs at around 4k to create more heat. Temps never got above 205ish. But again this was a short drive and not a real test. Positive none the less though

I've got a link I found googling and a pic of the 3pin pinout...but I'm at a relatives using IE and have no clue how to copy location in this browser....I'll do it when I get home tonight.


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