How bad did I eff up?
 

So i tore apart my spare s4 n/a (popped my rotary cherry). And of course the front eshaft bolt was insanely tight, having no access to air tools, and a 1/2" electric impact wouldn't budge it (even heated with MAP gas). I did a nono and put a screwdriver in the exhaust to stop the rotors from turning :blush: :blush: :blush: breaker bar and pipe and it came loose

Can i save this rotor (pretty sure i know the answer). I would like to because whoever rebuilt this engine before replaced all the bearings, but if not, lesson learned i guess

Nope. That rotor is toast. :(

http://allsaintspenarth.org.uk/wp-co.../11/toast1.jpg


if something seems like a bad idea, it probably is.

How bad did I eff up?
 

It was alot like premature ejaculation. I am a virgin rebuilding one of these, so i was getting excited and put things where they don't belong :whipit:

Alrighty than, add that to the list of things to get, gonna measure everything, think i can reuse almost all hard parts, besides the apex seal i broke in half.............:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

guess you're lucky you didn't stick your weiner in it instead then. ;)

don't think it would've reached the apex seal :lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^^Lol! It's all good man. That's how you learn. One thing I have learned throughout the years is that having the right tools makes all the difference in the world when working on anything. Mazdatrix sells a flywheel stopper on e-bay for 34 bucks shipped. It would have held the flywheel in place while you cranked on the e-shaft bolt. But lucky for you, an used N/a rotor can be bought for fairly cheap. Now Apex seals? That's another story.

How bad did I eff up?
 

I already had the flywheel off before i brought the engine in my dining room

And MAYBE i can get lucky and find A apex seal? Doubtful, if the only hard seal i gotta buy is apex seals, won't be too horrible, i'd have to guess this engine doesn't have many miles on its rebuild already

most places you can buy just 1 apex seal, you just have to ask nicely.

How bad did I eff up?
 

I may do that, but, i don't know what brand seals these are, i THINK they are mazda replacements, was gonna clean one up and see if you guys could tell just by looking tonight

Unless mixing brands won't hurt?

i wouldn't really recommend mixing seals

Is it 3mm seals? I would try and save it,seriously. As long as you have access to the right milling equipment. I would build up that damaged are with a welder and re-mill the slot. It could then be used for a budget build.

I don't know, The actual gash is small. I bet if you got the groove clear, it might work indefinitely. File, stone, maybe rotary tool at first, If you could get the groove clean enough to pass a stack of feeler gauges the size of the groove without feeling it catch on the displaced metal, i don't see why it wouldn't work. I mean, just look how effed up the factory set is when you take them out, they worked.

totally, cause spending $200 to save a $100 rotor is worth it.

How bad did I eff up?
 

And its just a n/a budget build, wouldn't be worth it to me, may as well try and find a good rotor for about $100, least the rotor i didn't screw up is a B weight, so at least i have some options

I'll try and get a pic of a seal tonight, On my way to look at a vehicle for the youngest daughter thats about an hour away

How bad did I eff up?
 

Alright, couple pictures of the apex seals, any ideas of what brand they are so i could source one?

I also attached pics of one rotor housing for shits and grins, they look good to me, i can't feel any rough spots and nothing catches my fingernail, so i think i can just clean them up and use them

looks like mazda OEM to me.

you can get a single seal for about $65

Im curious how you got the flywheel nut off

How bad did I eff up?
 

I got it off at a friends house (that has air tools) where it was sitting before i brought it into my house, i didn't think the front e-bolt was gonna be that stubborn or i would've loosened it there

QUOTE: I'll try and get a pic of a seal tonight, On my way to look at a vehicle for the youngest daughter thats about an hour away.

HMM..Found one for ya..argh,argh!

That is a stock mazda 2 piece seal. Most likely that engine has been rebuilt before because mazda used 3 piece garbage seals at least on the S5. It also seems like it hasn't been beat to hell for over 25 years as well.

As far as seal preference, I like the Mazda seals. I have 2 piece S6 mazda seals in my car now. I have scowled the internet for years researching seals, reading threads and basically came to the conclusion that while OEM Mazda seals aren't perfect, they do a damn good job for everything. Some of the harder seals (Mazda is the softest) may take a detonation event better in a boosted application, but they EAT rotor housings like groceries. The only real problem with the soft mazda seals is they tend to warp if the engine is overheated and cannot take any form of detonation. I would say though in stock form, they are the best "well rounded" seal in terms of how well they work in extreme circumstance.

How bad did I eff up?
 

I knew it had been rebuilt, the car it came out've the odometer read over 200K miles, and it was WAY to clean to be a stocker

I've gotten as far as measuring the apex seals, and they seem to be averaging 7.5mm, so i think i could order one seal and be in the clear since new are supposed to be 8mm from what i read

I was happy to see the housings have the coolant jacket mod done to them

Been trying to clean up a housing, but where the o-rings sit is being extremely stubborn to clean off, i really don't want to hand sand them, but i may have to

I would personally just order all new seals as having to break the engine apart is a costly procedure in time and money. Would you reuse a pressure plate when replacing the clutch? It's one of those things you should just replace while your there.

ill add in some information and correct some misinformation:

all seals from 1986-2002 were 3 piece, none were series specific. in 2004-ish mazda finally threw in the towel for the reman engines and went back to 2 piece OEM seals, the 3 piece seals were discontinued.

OEM seals are harder then aftermarkets, not softer. the bendable indestructable seals are softer. however due to how hard the OEM seals are they tend to shatter vs warp or simply crack in one spot.

OEM seals are very resistant to warping, i haven't ever seen an OEM seal warp. they do however crown due to the heat at the edges of the housings.

How bad did I eff up?
 

Would like an opinion on the rotor housings also, this is the one i cleaned up, found out that 3M makes a scotchbrite pad the goes on a drill. Got the sides cleaned up, but what worries me is pitting on both sides of the housing where the o-rings sit against, should i bring them to machine shop and have them milled for flatnees to take out the pitting? Or is my rebuild quickly shooting up in price? Can apparantly only upload one picture from my phone

How bad did I eff up?
 

So i got everything measured tonight, ALL hard seals are within spec (pretty much at brand new specs). So now my only concern is the rotor housings, so if i could get some input on them it would be greatly appreciated

JB weld and a razor blade will fill in any pitting.

for the housing side, i do not recommend any type of automated cleaning. the housing side tolerance can be very finicky.

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I tried to be as careful as possible and didn't press hard, guess i could grab a level and make sure i didn't take to much off. And Jb? thats gonna be a lot of JB as it goes all the wag around on both housing, but thats manageable

only worry about major pitting, minor pinholes i wouldn't worry much about.

How bad did I eff up?
 

Alright, tips and tricks to clean the other housing? The black staining is horrible, soaking in carb cleaner didn't even loosen it

For a carb cleaner I like to use Berrymans B12 but only in a well ventilated area that shit is incredibly strong, for a degreaser Purple Power is really good stuff too

How bad did I eff up?
 

We got gunk brand at work and i let the housing sit a couple hours in it on each side and it didn't even touch the crud on the faces of the housing

a block sander will clean the housing sides, just do long and even strokes equally around the whole housing.

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For some reason, that didn't cross my mind, highest grit? Or start low (500) than move up?

nope, 120 grit start to finish is what i use. fine sandpaper doesn't often work well, since it will round off the edges of work before cutting into the center area that you want to focus on.

once the surface is shiny that's is all you really need. don't try to get the whole thing looking like fresh aluminum or you likely went too far. that method also usually leaves the pits even, not requiring epoxy to fill them in.

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Makes sense. Know what i gotta buy tomorrow than

How bad did I eff up?
 

Oh, what about the chrome inside the housing? Fine grit wet sandpaper drenched in oil wrapped around a bolt or dowel?

if you really feel like trying to work on the chrome it takes a lot of elbow work since it is such a hard metal. you will need some metalworking sandpaper of about 200 grit and run it in a 45 degree angle from side to side. not straight across, not with the grain of rotation, in between the two if that makes sense. much like a honed engine cylinder bore.

focus more on the center of the housing, the edges are already usually well worn.

don't expect to make much progress with it either by hand, this is something more left to precision machining but cross hashing the housings does offer a benefit of oil retention.


you should also do it outside in a well ventilated area with a decent dust mask and rinse if off with water and air afterwards. chromium dust makes cigarrettes looks like children's toys as a carcinogen.

pretty much a circular motion than, the housings are in good shape from what I can see, but I'd like to roughen it up a bit to help with the sealing of the apex seals for break in (like you said, honeing)

just having trouble deciding what kit to get, alot of options

gonna guess the same idea applies from the rotor housings to the iron faces also?

well circular may work. i more or less meant an "X" pattern.

you can razor blade off the iron faces, i wouldn't recommend scrubbing them with anything too harsh as its not really necessary.


i have some basic parts for reassembly on my ebay store. i just haven't gotten to making jigs for cutting the gaskets yet. i have most, just not a few like the front cover.

ok, so I did alot of sanding today to get one housing cleaned up, and theres still some pitting on it that is right on in the area where the o-rings sit, and theres one pit that is close to a coolant passage, I tried getting pictures the best I could, just JB it up?

also attached, I looked at the other housing, and I noticed the trailing plug hole in the chrome is cracked, it doesn't look major, but fingernail catches it while going over it. Is it a junker?

I'm not looking for any kind of power, this is just my first rotary rebuild and I'm sticking n/a so I'm not planning on boosting or anything, may take out the diffusers to help it breath a little bit better, don't feel confident enough to port the exhaust

you're worrying too much.

How bad did I eff up?
 

Lol alright, just shoot me down. So don't worry about the pits or cracks than, just get the housings cleaned up and call em good

And yes i'm worried to much, how worried were you when you rebuilt your first engine? :lol: i want to only do this once and not have to worry for awhile, my bank account shares the same feelings

How bad did I eff up?
 

Apparantly this at one point ate something and spit it out, hence why i think my trailing hole is cracked, theres some scratches going towards the exhaust port, junker? Or still being paranoid?

how mine turned up is irregardless. in fact i had to rebuild mine 3 times before it was good to go, due to electrolysis around the spark plugs. apparently someone ran it on straight water for some time.

finding all the small problems is what caused me to feel that much more comfortable with the engine rebuilding process.

it's often the things you can't see that get you.

How bad did I eff up?
 

Well i'm trying to catch everything that i can, just trying to eliminate possible issues that may bite me in the arse in the end. I don't feel the scratches going towards the exhaust will hurt it much being its on the end of the process, but i could be wrong? Shouldn't be hurting it that much because it was running when i pulled it 2 years ago, just want some comfort in my mind

those scratches shouldn't upset anything, if it were gouged from a seal failure perhaps but it doesn't seem to be the case.

cool, thanks for putting up with me Ben, there may be more questions, I gotta inspect the other housing more, and I really gotta look at them both around the plug holes for cracks. I shouldn't find anything because when it was running it didn't burn coolant or overheat or overflow

no worries

cracks on the trailing plugs is rather common. it's the FD guys who tend to be anal about them, even though they do little to no harm unless it is really bad.

under boost I can understand that

well, heres both my housings, curious if I should do more sanding/cleaning? Or can I give them a shot of paint to help them look better and start moving onto the irons?