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high performance rotary...
I am wondering a couple things....
In a rotary, how do you lower compression, for High PSI turbos... And how do you raise redline? balance shaft and rotors? I dont know.... but I'm sure some of you must. |
get new rotors if you want lower compression, no other way that I know of.. balancing I have no idea
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how much do new rotors cost? where can I get them? I checked a cuople regular sites and they had nuthin for the RX-7.
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you need 87-88 t3 rotor they are the lowest compression available, expect to pay around $400+ each new.
mike |
where would I get those? and whats the compression ratio?
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The 86-88 turbo rotors are 8.5:1 CR and are the lowest you can get. What do you have now?
IMO, you're best to stick with what you've got. CR x boost pressure ratio = effective CR (ECR) So a higher CR and lower boost will give you the same ECR (and hence roughly the same power), but you'll have that higher CR throughout the rev range as opposed to higher boost but only at higher revs. |
lightened rotors gives a higher redline, there may be other ways, the E-shaft can't take much over 10,000rpm
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rotories already have a lower compression than most piston engines
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86-89 engines have lower compression which is about 8.5. There is a 7.5 on the 13B turbo of 1984 but it is a J-spec engine so most likely you will not find it. But to give you a hint compression is not such a big issue... You can go up to 20 lbs of boost on non-turbo rotors.
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There is no 1984 13B Turbo, these weren't made until 1986.
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e-shaft? is that a special brand, or do you just mean the eccentric shaft?
basically, for my the 7, here are the minimums of what I am looking for: 8500rpm redline, power peaking 7500-8000 rpm min. 1 bar of boost. 2 bar max. 2000 lbs or less 400 hp |
o, and legality isnt an issue. Its not gonne be driven besides to the race, and maby once or twice during the week to keep everything crispy.
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Originally posted by sinfestboy e-shaft? is that a special brand, or do you just mean the eccentric shaft? basically, for my the 7, here are the minimums of what I am looking for: 8500rpm redline, power peaking 7500-8000 rpm min. 1 bar of boost. 2 bar max. 2000 lbs or less 400 hp |
Originally posted by Angel Guard Racing Team 86-89 engines have lower compression which is about 8.5. There is a 7.5 on the 13B turbo of 1984 but it is a J-spec engine so most likely you will not find it. But to give you a hint compression is not such a big issue... You can go up to 20 lbs of boost on non-turbo rotors. |
Originally posted by InfiniIIIREX 2000 lbs or less? you better start saving for a fiberglass body I need to put whats gonna be my rx-7 in my sig, so ppl know what I'm talking about... |
If it's only going to be on the race track, build yourself a tube frame :) That'll get the weight down.
Oh and one more thing, if you ARE sticking with a regular body, you can ditch twenty or thirty pounds (or more?) by killing the sound deadening material.. Go to a party store and buy some dry ice (or look up "dry ice" at www.yellowpages.com). Yank the carpet out and take that stuff, drop it on the floor panel where the sound deadening is at (helps if it's cold out already) and let it sit there for a little bit, then move it, and take a hammer and *WHACK*.. if you got it cold enough it should come right out in rather large chunks. |
Barwick: Not enough money. the reason I chose FC is because I have heard that for 10k plus the price of the TII you can get 12's in the 1/4 and 1g on the skid. Im looking for 11's and .95g :)
how much does that much dry ice cost? sounds like a damn good idea... that 30 lbs, and the weight of the carpet... thats a good 45 lbs.... damn! |
if u got some mates in university science department it wont cost u anything ;)
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their was a 12A turbo in japan
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Re: high performance rotary...
Originally posted by sinfestboy I am wondering a couple things.... In a rotary, how do you lower compression, for High PSI turbos... And how do you raise redline? balance shaft and rotors? I dont know.... but I'm sure some of you must. -Ted |
Originally posted by InfiniIIIREX rotories already have a lower compression than most piston engines -Ted |
Originally posted by sinfestboy Barwick: Not enough money. the reason I chose FC is because I have heard that for 10k plus the price of the TII you can get 12's in the 1/4 and 1g on the skid. Im looking for 11's and .95g :) $1,000 3" full turbo back exhaust $150 fuel pump $100 intake $400 boost controller $500 sticky tires That's a high 12-second 1/4-mile car that does 1.0g+ on the skidpad. What the hell is up with you?  you talk a lot of smack (see other thread on 13B-REW and being able to afford professional fabrication), but you have no CLUE on what these things are capable of?  You post a lot of question looking like you're trying to build a MONSTER vehicle, but all I hear is questions upon questions upon question... Care to give us a background on who you are?  Are you a serious racer who has the money back it up or some 14-year old kid with nothing better else to do? -Ted |
My money's on the latter...
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Thats cruel Ted, but funny. I'm curious also.
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Maybe it's just me...  You should see all this person's questions in some of the other forum sections.  I just went through an involved answer on turbo models in the Single Turbo section.
I was kinda irked that he made a 13B-REW conversion sound so trivial. I've got a headache...maybe that's why. For $10k, my FC would've gone 9's!  Hey, maybe he mistakenly typed "12" instead of "9"?  Yeah, that's it...that's the ticket!:eek: -Ted |
I said I heard, and I mean 12's as in 12.0. In street trim, pulling 1 G. I dont know too much about rotaries, and I'm trying to learn. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as some big shot..... the problem is, at my HS, there is almost noone who knows anything about any cars, and alot of them ask me questions, and ask me to teach them alot of stuff. so I guess subconciously, I kinda feel more like a teacher than a student.... I need to tell my friends to bug off...
and I'm 17. and no, my parents dont give me tons of money, I work for what I have... even though my dad wants to be involved (physically and financially) with my project RX-7. also, dont tell me I am too young, I have been driving since I turned 15 (whenever I went somewhere with parents). |
Making big plans for your RX-7 are fine and dandy but learn the basic first. Learn how to make a stock engine "Be all it can be"(quote stolen directly from the US Army). When you have the basics down go on to the bigger stuff. I personally don't think I need a turbo charger to have fun in my car but others will tell you its the only way to go. Make your own decisions after you know more about the car in general. You'll be much happier knowing exactly what your car has in it, not what someone tells you it has in it. Are you confused now? Sorry if you are.
Good Luck. |
I thought it was the acual block that mattered for compression and turboing an na.
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Originally posted by FPrep2ndGenRX7 Making big plans for your RX-7 are fine and dandy but learn the basic first. Learn how to make a stock engine "Be all it can be"(quote stolen directly from the US Army). When you have the basics down go on to the bigger stuff. I personally don't think I need a turbo charger to have fun in my car but others will tell you its the only way to go. Make your own decisions after you know more about the car in general. You'll be much happier knowing exactly what your car has in it, not what someone tells you it has in it. Are you confused now? Sorry if you are. Good Luck. The thing that "flipped my switch" was this: Originally posted by FPrep2ndGenRX7 Learn how to make a stock engine "Be all it can be" |
Originally posted by sinfestboy why do legit honda fans like hondas so much? because hondas suck. thats why. and when they make something that sucks into something great, is quite an accomplishment that not many people can claim to have acchived Sorry 'bout the rant! |
series 5 NA engines make 123hp per liter :)
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Originally posted by InfiniIIIREX series 5 NA engines make 123hp per liter :) |
I say, go get a R100. I just saw some of them run at the IDRC at Palmdale, CA. Oh my god.....crazy shit.
Congrats to Ari Yallon and rx7.com to his awesome victory in Street class. Jay kim |
Originally posted by NZConvertible This is a silly attitude. You may not like Hondas (I don't like them enough to buy one either) but that doesn't mean they "suck". Hondas are some of the best engineered cars on the planet, something you would realise if you did a little research. You can hardly say a 100hp/litre piston engine that meet all required emissions and noise requirements "sucks". Stupid people may do stupid things to their Hondas, But I've seen some shocking looking RX-7's too! Sorry 'bout the rant! |
Originally posted by sinfestboy 100 hp per litre is impressive, but the fact that top dogs at honda wanted it to be WWD (wrong wheel drive) says alot about the people at honda.... also, its 200 bhp, factory claimed. it actually gets 170 whp, at 7700 rpm. the car is horrible, it doesnt even have 100 hp till 4500 rpm. oh, and to say more about the people at honda, the morons didnt even put a LSD on it. makes me sick. |
RSX-S. the prelude is 2.2 litres. thats not 200 hp per liter :) just pointing it out.....
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Originally posted by sinfestboy RSX-S. the prelude is 2.2 litres. thats not 200 hp per liter :) just pointing it out..... The Integra marketed in Japan, Oz and NZ has an LSD. I was referring to the 160hp, 1.6L motor fitted to Civics and Integras in the same countries throughout the '90s. I completely forgot about the 236hp, 2.0L RWD S2000, that's 118hp/L. Definitely designed by morons... |
and, like i said already, peaky ass powerbands. no power under 4500 rpm. but back to rx-7's.....
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sinfestboy said - and, like i said already, peaky ass powerbands. no power under 4500 rpm. but back to rx-7's.....
Thats funny. You just described a PP 13B N/A. |
PP? and whats a PP?
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PP = Peripheral Port
I thought everybody knew that. |
lol you just said peaky ass powerbands sorry but rotories with a BP or a PP are kinda just like a honda no power till about 3700rpms... and on a turbo lude they have about 150 hp at 4k rpms at 8.5psi. if you dont wanna a peaky ass power band get a v8, but if you want to rev a lil to get power and have updated technolgy stick with import..... and btw hondas are a great car i dont wanna hear anybody doggin on them cuz you dont see the honda peeps dog on anyone why should it be different here?
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84 J-spec engines ARE TURBO... Just so that you will know 84-85 gsl-se were 13B for U.S. BUT in Japan those models were turbo instead not too many but they exist. We got two of those engines running around in the family (Both my cousins have GSL-SE with 1984 13B Turbo engines).
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Originally posted by Angel Guard Racing Team 84 J-spec engines ARE TURBO... Just so that you will know 84-85 gsl-se were 13B for U.S. BUT in Japan those models were turbo instead not too many but they exist. We got two of those engines running around in the family (Both my cousins have GSL-SE with 1984 13B Turbo engines). From www.monito.com: P132 or GSL-SE Model 84-85 The SE saw the re-introduction of the 13B engine, last seen in the 1978 RX-4, but now rated at 135 bhp because of Dynamic Effect Intake (DEI), six port induction (2 by 3), and electronic fuel injection. In Japan, there was a P132 with a 12A turbocharged engine. Power steering was offered for the first time. The interior was upgraded, but this did not appear in the Japanese turbo version. |
Originally posted by NZConvertible I said piston engine, much harder. The S5 engine would also fail all current emissions requirements today. |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HWO
the S5 motor is 13 yrs old for christ sake, give it a break, compare apples to apples - S2000 motor to 13BRenisis - now you are on the right track [/QUOTE Yeah, but InfiniIIIREX brought the S5 engine into the comparison, not me. My point was (and still is) Hondas are not crap. I just don't want one. Well, maybe a S2000 :D |
We can't compare the RENESIS till we get an actual power figure instead of speculation. Has Mazda released what it will actually do yet, or what they claim it will do? I haven't been paying much attention to it lately.
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It seems that you have not read thru the whole site huh? Check out my next post extracted from monito.com.
You will also see a 6 port injection 12A engine. here is the whole link for all of you rotary engine fans... http://www.monito.com/wankel/engines.html#Mazda |
Also from monito.com... You should read the whole site before you say something.. Check this out about half way down. The engines are sorted by date yes we do have two of those engines...
Eng. Yrs Model cc x rotors Comp BHP/rpm, Torq(lb-ft/rpm) 40A 61 experimental 386 x 1 = 386 L8A 62 experimental 399 x 1 = 399 L8A/0353 62 experimental 399 x 2 = 798 L8A/3804 63 experimental 399 x 3 = 1197 L8A/3805 63 experimental 399 x 4 = 1596 160/6000 gross 400/3867 67 experimental 395 x 2 = 790 400/3893 69 experimental 495 x 2 = 990 3912 70 experimental 356 x 1 = 356 35 bhp X002 70 experimental 360 x 1 = 360 3915 70 experimental x 1 = 360? 6A 70s experimental 573 x 1 = 573 from 12A 7A 70s experimental 654 x 1 = 654 from 13B 2002 71 experimental 491 x 4 = 1964 180/6000 (from 10A) 10A/3820 64 prototype 491 x 2 = 982 10A/0810 67 Cosmo L10A 491 x 2 = 982 110/7000 (gross) 10A/0813 68 Cosmo L10B 491 x 2 = 982 128/7000 (gross) 10A/0820 68 Cosmo 491 x 2 = 982 100/7000 (gross) 10A/3883 68 Singapore GPrace 491 x 2 = 982 204 bhp 10A/0820 69-72 Presto (JpnR100) 491 x 2 = 982 100/7000 98/3500 10A/3877 69-72 R100(US) 491 x 2 = 982 100/7000 92/4000 akaM10A 10A/0866 71-5? RX-3(Jpn) 491 x 2 = 982 105/7000 (gross) 10B 68-69 Cosmo 128 (gross) 12A/3830 66 experimental 573 x 2 = 1146 12A/3872 68 prototype 573 x 2 = 1146 12A/3830 66 prototype 573 x 2 = 1146 12A 70-71 R100 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 100/7000 (gr.), 92/4000 12A 70-71 RX-2 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 120 (gross) 12A 72 R100 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 77/6000, 80/4000 12A/3905 72 RX-2 US 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 102/6800, 98/4000 net 12A/R612 72-75 RX-3 US 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 90/6000, 96/4000 net 12A 73 Luce GR (Japan) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 120/6500, 116/3500 DIN 12A 73 Luce GR AP (Jpn) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 115/6500, 114/3500 DIN 12A 73 Luce GR II (Jpn) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 130/7000, 120/4000 DIN 12A 73 Luce GR IIAP (J) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 125/7000, 117/4000 DIN 12A 73 RX-2 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 97/6500, 96/4000 12A 73 LeMans race tune 573 x 2 = 1146 250/8000 12A SIP 74 RX-2 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 97/6500, 96/4000 12A 76 RX-3 Nikki 2bl 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 95/6000, 102/4000 12A 77-78 RX-3SP 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 95/6000, 102/4000 12ASport 77 Sports Kit(race) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 250+/9000 12A 79-80 RX-7 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 100/6000, 105/4000 12A Lean 81-85 RX-7 US LeanBurn 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4? 100/6000?, 105/4000? 12A 6PI 82-85 Luce,Cosmo (Jpn) 573 x 2 = 1146 12A/Turb 83-8? Luce,Cosmo,RX-7 573 x 2 = 1146 8.5 160/6000JIS, 165/4000 12A/Turb 8?-85 Luce,Cosmo,RX-7 573 x 2 = 1146 8.5 165/6000JIS, 165/4000 12A 84-85 RX-7 (S,GS,GSL) 573 x 2 = 1146 9.4 101/6000, 107/4000 12B 73-75 racing one distr 573 x 2 = 1146 250+/9500 13A/0823 70-72 R130 front drv 655 x 2 = 1310 9.1 126/6000, 127/3500 13B 73 R130 (Japan) 654 x 2 = 1308 9.1 125/6000, 127/3500 13B 74-75 RX-4 654 x 2 = 1308 9.2 110/6000, 117/3500 13B 76-78 RX-4 654 x 2 = 1308 9.2 110/6000, 120/4000 13B 76-78 RX-5 (Cosmo) 654 x 2 = 1308 9.2 110/6000, 120/4000 13B Race 77 Racing 654 x 2 = 1308 9.4 290+/9000 13B Race 79 Le Mans Racing 654 x 2 = 1308 285/9000 13B Race 80 Le Mans Qualify 654 x 2 = 1308 300 13B Race 80 Le Mans Racing 654 x 2 = 1308 290/8500 13B DEI 83+ Cosmo,Luce,RX-7 654 x 2 = 1308 13B Race 84 Le Mans, factory 654 x 2 = 1308 330 sprint, 310 enduro Here you go, 13B Turb 1984 produced by Mazda!!!!! 13B Turb 84 Racing 654 x 2 = 1308 7.5 500/8000, 326/7500 13B DEI 84-85 RX-7 (GSL-SE) 654 x 2 = 1308 9.4 135/6000, 133/2750 13B DEI 86-89 RX-7 2nd gen 654 x 2 = 1308 9.4 146/6500, 138/3500 13B Turb 86-89 RX-7 Turbo II 654 x 2 = 1308 8.5 182/6500, 183/3500 13B 89 Luce (Japan929) 654 x 2 = 1308 8.5 177/6500, 181/3500 JIS 13B VDEI 89-92 RX-7 Light Rotor 654 x 2 = 1308 9.7 160/7000, 140/4000 13B Turb 89-91 RX-7 T II Lt Rtr 654 x 2 = 1308 9.1 200/6500, 196/3500 13B Twin 92+ RX-7 Seq. Turbo 654 x 2 = 1308 9.0 255/6500, 217/5000 MSPRE 95+ RX-01 MulSidPrt x 2 220/8500, 159/6500 13B Renesis 99 RX-Evolv NA engine, 280 HP 13G racing x 3 13J racing x 3? 4? 15A 73 experimental 737 x 2 = 1474 135/5750gross, 145/3500 84/5 MX-03 (exp) 654 x 3 = 1962 320/7000 JIS, 290 lbft 20G x 3 21A R-II 72 experimental 1046 x 2 = 2092 (22A 2x1169cc planned) R26B racing 448 lb-ft 654 x 4 = 2616 700/9000 62mkg/6500 ROSCO 70s proposed stratified charge, late 70s SCP proposed precombustion chamber engine TISC experimental superchargedDISC 80s late 80s DISC-II 90s early 90sMiller 90s Miller Cycle RCE HR-X exp. hydrogen 499 x 2 = 998 100 ps, 13 kg-m torque HRX-2 exp. hydrogen RE10X 80s exp. alloy small cap. for MX-04 show car (Miata precursor) |
As far as the rotor/e-shaft assembly and high RPM use I understand that for anything over 7,500RPM you need to use special stationary gears and have them pinned to the housings more securely than the way they come stock. These mods are supposed to allw for a 10,500 RPM redline. At those speeds I also understand engine builders use carbon apex seals.
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