Fuel pressure?
 

I've checked the FSM but it's a little confusing. What's the fuel pressure supposed to be at idle and what is it supposed to be at WOT? N/A 13b...S4

Having starting issues. Crank crank crank, no fire. Let it sit for a few minutes, try again...get a sputter but no dice. A few repeats of this and eventually it'll fire. It runs smoothly but it makes next to no power.

Cranking fuel pressure is around 32psi, but I've not been able to get her started again to get readings on the others.

Also, I'll be doing another compression test and see where it's at.

Oh, and the injectors have been professionally cleaned.

if you have pressure during cranking then i highly doubt your problem is due to fuel pressure

Like the FSM says:

With key On, engine OFF, yellow check connector jumpered: 37-39 psi.

Idle: approx 28 psi (I see 31-32 psi)

So if your starting your engine you'd expect to see 37-39 psi because the pump is running when the key is HELD to Start, and there's no vacuum to speak of to the FPR.

I've never looked at the pressure myself while Starting. I assume it'd be 37-39 psi.

I think at wide open throttle it'd be close to the 37-39 psi. Depends on what the vacuum is to the FPR during wide open throttle.

If I were you, I'd jumper the check connector with engine off, key ON and see how close to 37-39 psi you get. And if you ever get it to idle again, see how close you get to the 28 psi at idle.

EDIT: I thought about this a bit. If you cranking and cranking, the voltage will drop to the fuel pump. Soooo I'm guessing the pressure might actually drop a bit from the 37-39 psi to the figure your seeing. Normal I'd say to see the ?? 32 your seeing during Starting (but no actual start). I'd be a slight pain to do this on my car just to see what happens. I'd have to disable the ignition (duh, pull EGI)

it doesn't seem low enough to be the cause of your problem.

does it start faster if you hit the gas a bit as it's about to sputter? Have any emissions or idle control systems been altered or removed?

When I crank the engine a few times, stop and let it sit for a few minutes then try again, sometimes it'll try and kick on - sputter - and if I catch the throttle just right she'll tumble into life. All emissions are still in place.

32psi is the correct cranking pressure. Your car is flooded/flooding please review the FAQ on deflooding procedures pull your plugs and change them as well you are indicating a pore spark performance.

I've had the injectors professionally cleaned and blueprinted. They were and still are at peak efficiency. The spark plugs are new as of yesterday. I've done many a de-flooding procedures to no avail. I'm pretty sure all of this is the cause of low compression.

Back when I tested the compression with a fairly inaccurate gauge, it tested 75psi front, 65psi rear. My other car on the same tester was somewhere in the high 80s, and that car ran fine.

Low compression will cause flooding.

How do you blue print injectors?????

You flow test them before and after cleaning, compare the data and come out with a percentage of improvement over the before and the percentage of variance between each one.

If it's a low compression problem/cause, the only thing you can do is use trickery to stop the flooding.

Either a fuel cut switch or depin a wire on the small ECU plug so the ECU never uses the internal fuel Start map, and uses only the afm for fuel.

An example would be the Start map making the injector stay open for 17ms during start, but if just the afm was used, the injector would stay open only 6ms. That would be pin 3B on a series four car. Try it out some day. Be sure to tape over the end of that wire if you do, because it'll have batt voltage on it anytime the key is put to Start.

Well, I finally used the new compression tester my friend made on the car. Front rotor is doing about 90psi and the rear is about 80psi. Which should be far more accurate than the old one he'd built.

The strangest thing happened, too. I put the battery back into the car, went to turn the key and it fired pretty much the second I touched it to 'start'. Which is...very random...considering it normally will just crank crank crank crank crank until you get pissed off and stop trying. I let it run for a bit to warm up, then turned it off...waited...tried starting it again to no avail.

Fuel pressure readings: Cranking, previous mentioned.
Idle, around 34psi
WOT, no change...if anything I thought I could see the needle drop ever so slightly...to the point where I didn't see it the first few times.

Who's got more ideas?

I forget. Does it start good when cold and difficult when hot?

Well honestly it doesn't start well period... But it's easier to start if the engine is still warm enough from running. When it's dead cold, it's at it's worst. When warm as I said, it will start but there's only a small window of maybe an hour or so before it cools off to the point where it's VERY difficult to get it restarted.

When it'll restart after it's been running, it takes quite a few cranks before it'll sputter to life.

Part of the problem MIGHT be the water thermo sensor on the back of the water pump housing. It's nothing but a resistor, but if one of the two pins in the connector is pushed back, that would make for a hard COLD start. Plug is green the last time I looked.

It's easier to tell by backprobing the green/white wire in pin 2I of the middle ECU harness. If the engine is cold it'll read approx 2vdc give or take a half volt. IF a pin on the connector is pushed back it'll read approx 5vdc, meaning the circuit is open and needs repair.

I'm wondering if maybe it's not just gummed up fuel filters. The car sat for a very long time before I got it. But you would think if that were the case, the fuel pressure would be lessened.

Hailers, I've installed a very simple fuel pump cutoff switch using the black wire with the white stripe coming off the fuel pump pigtail. Last night, I had the car running (idling) when I cut the wire and I let it die. Today I put the freshly recharged battery back into the car, switched the pump switch to on and started it...it fired right up on the second crank pulse or so. I will let the car sit over night and try starting it again tomorrow, switching the fuel pump to on before attempting to start. If that fails, I'll kill the pump, spin out the fuel to de-flood and get the starter going for a few seconds before flipping the pump back on. It's slightly more complicated, but oh well. If I can get the car to start reliably, I can further troubleshoot why it's making no power. Probably all three cats are gummed up. :) That's what I'm *hoping* for....

No dice this morning. It wouldn't start...so I left it, drove to autozone to buy a starter for my dad's truck, came back, went to start it and after a few cranks it fired. So basically when the motor is dead cold it just won't go, but if you let it sit for a bit and try again it will? Mind you, I killed the fuel pump and let it suck itself dry last night...

And of course now that I've got it running and the engine is up to temp I can kill the pump, let it die, and start it right back up again. The effect is shortlived though, until it cools down too much.

I do not have a multimeter at my disposal and cannot borrow or buy one right now... Is there another test to see whether or not the water thermo switch is good or bad/the problem? Like unplugging it maybe?


I did get to drive the car around my neighborhood for the first time in months though...it felt SO nice to be back in an FC again...it just sucks that it makes no power across the rev range and feels like it's gonna blow to pieces after about 4,000rpm. -sigh-

Update: Well, I decided to drop in another motor...a Mazda reman. I only bought a shortblock so it's using everything off the old motor....including the aux ports and water thermo sender.. allow me to continue.

While the motor was out I discovered some things... the motor mounts are in two pieces...so technically there's not anything ACTUALLY anchoring the engine to the car at all. That explains my very excessive engine vibration that shakes the whole car especially under full throttle as the revs build.

As it turns out, and I'm not entirely sure why I never checked this, the aux ports were not and do not actuate at all. They're not seized, and I cleaned them while I was swapping stuff over, but after doing the very simple (Yes, I'm hating myself) grease test...they're not budging.

Things only get worse... I discovered when I removed the wiring harness from the engine that one of the 'pins' for the water thermo sender was pushed back. I nudged it back into place and it seemed solid, but I'm not sure that stuck well enough.. This is a different sender from the new motor, obviously, but I'm not sure it's good...that or the pin has been pushed back again.

Replaced the fuel filter for good measure, and gutted all the cats (Which were awfully clogged), too.

Basically, the car has all the same problems it did before...what I thought was low compression (And the numbers hadn't been at all promising) really might not have been the issue at all. So, maybe some money was wasted... No power, won't start when cold but starts decent when warmed up..

I wired the aux. ports open (No, not permanently...considering the airpump activation mod as a permanent fix) and went for a drive. It could be my imagination but I think it might be less shy of the redline now and MAYBE it's got a little more up-top oomph.. The car was an automatic when I bought it, so even though it's manual now (With an S5 N/A gearbox) it's still got the 3.909 differential... It could very well be throwing off what I consider to be proper power for a stock N/A FC..

I'm doing a in-car compression test tomorrow...and may fool with the water thermo sensor and might try and borrow/buy a multimeter so I can test the sensor for within spec voltage or maybe not.. Bottom line: After all of this work I've put into the car since buying it, I've gotten such little enjoyment out of it that it's wearing on me. The car is gorgeous, though, and I'm just not sure I could let it go. It's the perfect color with the perfect interior and it's the trim level I want...it's just...perfect... but fucking hell it won't cooperate and run right to let me enjoy it! -Sigh-

Fawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwk... . :(

I believe it's not the fuel pressure...

Of course it's not fuel pressure, we've already satisfied that. No real point in making a new thread though, so I thought I'd update it with the latest crap which surprisingly hasn't changed a bit.

The *won't start cold, starts when hot* is a problem with the water thermo sensor or it's wiring to the ECU.

If one of the contacts in the plug that connects to the sensor is pushed back, somehow make it NOT push back and make contact all the time. If the sensors output isn't seen by the ECU, the ECU defaults to a sensor input of 176*F. That results in a normal amount of fuel delivered during START when the engine is hot, but results in not enough fuel during a cold engine start.

The attached jpg explains how fuel is delivered during Start.

EDIT: Oh good. Going to get a meter. Put the meters negative lead on a known ground. Put the positive lead up the backside of pin 2I of the middle plug of the ECU with all plugs connected up. A cold engine will read somewhere b/t 2-3vdc. As the engine gets hot the reading will decline til it finally reads approx 1/2 volt dc (fully hot...180*F). Use a sewing needle/paper clip/equiv to shove up the backside of pin 2I so it makes contact with the contact, and then put your meters pos lead against the needle. OR prick the green/white wire in pin 2I with the needle and place the meters pos lead against the needle to read the voltage.

A KNOWN gnd would be one of the studs on the ECU hold down bracket OR if you leave the ECU bolted down doing this, then use the case of the ECU itself for the gnd.

Gutted cats will cause not enough backpressure on a series four. Not enough backpressure to open the aux ports at the normal opening time is what I mean.

Hailers, I feel very bad for you. Throughout all the searching I've done I've probably been thru close to a hundred threads pertaining to my starting issues, and in every single one of them you've posted that same snippet of information about the water thermo sender... surely you're tired of it..

I'm not thrilled about peeling the carpet back again because of the valuable and fragile blue plastic fasteners I have to pop out to get the kick panel off, but I suppose it's necessary at this point.

After I test the water thermo sender or take another look at the plug or both, I'll update you again. I'm praying so hard that this sender is the cause of my cold starting issues... if I can get it to start reliably when cold I can be happy enough to not sell the damn thing. lol

jailers I'm not sure I completely understand how to use this multimeter, never had to before. Read over the manual and I think I've got it on the 200m DC volt setting. The readings were not consistent but it was around 0.03 to 0.08. Cold
Motor

Sorry, I made that last post from my phone earlier.... I've got an update going here..

So I went out and bought a multi-meter to test the sensor and I'm not sure I know how to use it properly. I set it on the volts, 200m. It was the only setting I could get a reading from...and it was between 0.03 to 0.08 with the engine cold. I tested it at the ECU...middle plug....green wire with the white stripe. I used a needle to wedge the pin to get contact and grounded it against one of the ECU cage studs having scratched some paint off to get a good ground. The readings were so erratic though, that's where my uncertainty comes in.

I also went around town and picked up things to make the modifications for the aux port actuators. Tapped into the airpump hose, aquarium valves to adjust things and routed it to the aux port air supply... After lots of fooling around, I STILL could not get the aux ports to budge. The actuators move very freely, more freely than my friend's working aux ports. The actuators appear to be in good working order...but no dice. I'm kind of wondering if the seal from the actuator to the LIM is good enough or if I need to pull them off and use some red RTV to guarantee a maintainable seal.

I also fooled with the Water Thermo Sender plug. Yes the pins push back but not enough to where they can't make a connection. There's no way they're NOT connecting, so the connection should be perfect.

At this point I'm ready to replace the sender with one from Mazdatrix as a last attempt. I'm getting zero enjoyment out of the car. Zero. I'm asking myself why I'm spending this money and putting in these hours of labor and getting absolutely nothing back from the car..

So, someone, anyone who knows what they're doing... tell me your thoughts... this car needs to run right very soon or I'm afraid I might let it go and try and find a car that already runs.

Got around to properly testing the water thermo sender at the ECU.

Cold, it was reading 2.15 volts which I watched drop as the car warmed up to N.O.T.
At Normal Operating Temperature it was 0.40 volts.

Sounds to me as if it's working properly?

Im having same issue as you but do you know what is the part number of the water thermo sensor?

go to Mazdatrix's website and type it in. It'll come up.

last time i had this issue in my car i found the car to be making a sheering noise like when you need brake rotors and the car wouldn't go past 4000 easy(88 Na) i deflooded the engine and still had the problem. come to find out my omp had failed and i had leaky injectors, which caused my rear rotor to free spin and not go through compression cycles. i used a cap of AT fluid in the rear leading hole, cranked up the car and revved as high as i could in 10 second intervals. On try 5 i hear a gunshot see white smoke and my engine got its power back. Now i premix and i use an electric fan that's wired to the ecu fuse in the cabin. Having the fan wired this way makes my ecu run 6 seconds longer than the fuel pump when i shut the car off making my fuel pressure around 10 psi when the car is off so it doesn't flood my engine now and i can drive to the mailbox without fear of flooding. PS i know its old but i got an in cabin fuel pressure gauge and I'm at 38 idle and 42-44 WOT.

Even pops.

Your water thermo sensor is working just fine since it read what you say.

You can buy them from Autozone. Look for the part number online at Autozone. But I see no sense in buying one since your works fine.

Do you have any other ideas? Starts relatively normal once it's at least slightly warmed up but when it's cold I have to screw with it and play the waiting game.

Well, put that way.....buy another sensor and have at it?

Someone above sees fuel pressure at 38psi at idle. Ain't what it should be. Should be 28-32 at idle and if a non turbo car, will read 37-39 psi at WOT.

I don't think you have a fuel pressure problem though. Has the traits of a non working water thermo sensor. Autozone has them. I posted a jpg of the autozone page in the first part of this yr.

I searched last night for hours and hours on different things like ignition issues sensors and whatnot. Hailers, I came across a thread where you had mentioned a starting circuit... You told someone to test the black with blue stripe wire on the small plug of the ecu. I did that just now but I did not see nine to ten volts upon starting. I saw more like 1.74 volts. So does this somehow mean the ecu is not using the right start map and is looking to the afm?could it maybe be my tps? I'm reaching here but I'm tired of the car sitting.

I'll look into the autozone thermo sender. Thanks.

I do appreciate your attempts at helping me track this down.

Well how 'bout that. I just had the thought about the ECU not seeing the Start signal and was going to post that thought.

It should be on pin 3B and the color should be Blue/Black (L/B).

3B is shown in the attached jpg on the small plug. Bottom row, far right looking into the wire side of the plug.

So, if you probe that wire and put the key to Start, and see no rise in voltage to 8-12vdc......then that is your starting problem. You only see voltage when the key is HELD to Start.

If the ECU does not see that start signal, then it uses the afm for fuel. Not enough fuel if the engine is cold, but plenty if the engine is hot. Hence the good hot/warm starting engine.

Don't buy the water thermo sensor if the above is true about your car.

You might ask yourself if anybody has bypassed the normal start wiring. As in adding a toggle switch or the like.

Yes, I back-probed the wire on the bottom right of the small plug...black with blue line. Had an assistant turn the car over (With the EGI fuse out so I could triple check using different grounding points) while I watched the voltage reading. As I said...1.74 volts was the most common number but when attempting to start it, it just jumped around from that number to like 2.something volts.

Too late, I already have been to autozone and purchased the new sender. That's 17$ I'll never get back because it's already installed in the car. Of course, it did not fix my problem. Marvelous.

*I* bypassed the start wiring. It's necessary when you perform the automatic to manual conversion, which I did. I followed closely with Kevin Landers' write-up, and I decided not to go with a clutch interlock for simplicity and less connections in between.
However, before you go saying this is all my fault, that simply is not possible because this problem when I bought it and before I got around to doing the conversion. Absolutely nothing changed from the time it was an automatic to when it was a manual symptom wise.

So, seeing as this problem was in existence prior to me converting the car..let's move forward now that we've at least got a lead. Can you explain to me that whole start signal? What it does, what it ties in with, what it connects to and the absolute simplest if not maybe ghetto way I can fix it?

The one thing that worries me is I have completely forgotten about a little mess I found before I bought the car, yet I bought it anyway.

The under-dash harness, that exits the lower driver-side firewall which is normally bound up by electrical tape..is..well...a mess. Not sure if the electrical tape simply broke apart and someone took the rest out or it looks maybe as if someone did some splicing. I honestly have absolutely no idea what all I'm looking at when I look at the myriad of colored wiring.

So, is there a means of fixing this that involves running a new wire from point a to point b at least as a temp fix just to be sure the car has been fixed before I go doing a more in-depth wiring job?

It's all YOUR fault! hee, hee, hee.

Opps. Auto to manual. Different plugs b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. So I can see how it got overlooked. I'll think on it a few moments and write back. While I'm doing that, answer this: Does the car have factory Theft protection?

If the answer is no, then do us a favor. Remove the three 10mm nuts that hold the TRAIL coil down and lift up on that assy and see if you see a six socket BLUE connector ...or not. The BLUE connector will have a jumper wire in it. You'll see what that is if you have that 'Blue jumper plug on the car.

EDIT: Can you explain how you did the starter wiring? Like at the ignition switch the START wire is BLACK/GREEN and is on a single wire connector. Can you explain how it travels from there to the starter solenoid??? Or did you do it another way?

You also have ANOTHER problem due to this wiring. You also don't have batt voltage going to the one of the two coils in the Circuit Opening Relay. Normally you go to START and put batt power also on that relay as long as the key is to START. That act makes the fuel pump work as long as the key is held to Start. Once the engine actually starts up and you let the key leave Start and go back to ON, the other coil in the Circuit Opening Relay gets a ground put on it by the AFM, and that act keeps the pump running.

Yes, you could run a wire to 3B but it would have to have voltage on it only as long as the key is held to START. In other words have power only when you holding the key to START. Can't have pwr on that wire at the other times, like key to ON etc.

The automatic wiring is a little confusing to me when I look at the wiring manual. It the car has ABS it confuses me a bit.

Here's the way I see it. On a automatic car, that BLACK/GREEN wire at the ignition switch runs into the engine bay directly to the BLUE connector I described before.

So, you go to that BLUE connector and pull it off and set it aside. Now find the large BLACK/GREEN wire in the connector the BLUE jumper was connected to. Put a meter on that wire and find a gnd for your meters neg lead. Put the key to START and see if you see batt voltage on that BLACK/GREEN wire when you go to START.

IF you see that, then it seems to me you could run a wire from that BLACK/GREEN directly to your starter solenoids small blade. Done

The jpgs attached are just for ref. I erased the manual wires in the diagram for the auto car.........attached the original wiring diagram unaltered........attached a jpg of a ROUND plug with six wires that is a player.

If I recall correctly, the starter wiring was very simple. The reason you need to bypass the wiring is because of all the safety interlocks that prevent the car from starting in any gear other than say neutral or park. The remedy for this was, yes, provided in Kevin Landers' write-up of how to do this entire swap. I simply took the gauge wire he specified to use and ran it from the ignition down thru the firewall and to the male spade on the starter solenoid. This should ONLY be the trigger wire to tell the starter to come on. Other than that and connecting the reverse lights to their appropriate wires...that is the only modification done to the ignition wiring! I could be wrong, so I'll double check in a few minutes when I go outside... however, there was only a need to disconnect the stock trigger wire (Black and yellow, I think?) and run a new one straight to the starter.. All this does is bypass the interlocks for the tranny.

Yes. The car is a very beautiful '88 GXL bathed in Arctic Silver with a luxurious blue velour interior. This all means that it came with a factory alarm/anti-theft system. I had been wondering about that because it does include an engine immobilizer...but the alarm system works flawlessly. Every sensor, switch and doo-dad on it works as it should because I've tested all of them by arming it and setting it off on purpose.

Alright, I do not seem to be finding a blue anything under/near the trailing coil pack. I see a white, round harness connected that has a black/green wire included in it's bundle. Is that what you're talking about?

Meanwhile, I found that one of those air hoses that connects on the driver side (one that goes from that metal hard pipe that sprawls out over top of the throttle body) and down to just under the TB near the oil filter was unplugged. I'm not entirely sure what it is, or what it's for...and I don't seem to remember disconnecting it at any point after I did the engine swap...AND the only picture I have from after I completed the swap around that area is unclear as to whether or not it was ever plugged in. Could this help to cause hard starts? I plugged it back in and tried to fire it...it didn't fire right up but it fired after maybe three seconds of cranking. So while idling I got out and pulled the hose off again...the idle dropped only slightly, but eh.. I dunno, it seems like it's part of the brake booster maybe?

Anyways, I'm going out to look at the plug I was speaking of and seeing if I can trace that wire back. Also, later on tonight I'll post iPhone pics of the under-dash wiring I was talking about. The more I look at it the more my stomach sinks. I think somewhere in there lies my problem...

can you check for codes?:rolleyes:

Ah ha. Has Theft protection, therefore no BLUE jumper connector.

You know where the MAIN RELAY is....I hope. Next to the MAIN RELAY should be the Starter Cut Relay. Pull the plug off the relay. You'll see a plug with the wire colors in the attached jpg. You'll see one large BLACK/GREEN and a large BLACK/WHITE......................eh, I'll stop right here. You say you have run a wire from the ignition switch directly to the starter solenoid.

The write up you followed isn't the way to do business. If you run a wire directly from the starter wire at the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, you fail to send the ECU a signal that your starting the engine and you fail to send batt voltage to one of the coils in the Circuit Opening Relay to activate the fuel pump during Start. The pump may yet activate if the air being pulled thru the afm is enough to pull the vane in the afm aft enough to MAKE the switch inside the afm to put a ground on the OTHER coil in the Circuit Opening Relay. The pump will run it that happens.

I'd bet that if you looked at the ignition switch plugs, you'll find a GREEN/BLACK wire on a single wire connector. IF so, let me know. A automatic car would have that wire and it should run all the way to the THEFT relays elect plug. IF someone were to connect the GREEN/BLACK wire at the ignition switch as a normal car would have it, you'd find that the plug on the Theft Relay would have power on it's green/black wire any time the key was put to START.

If that's so, then things could be put back to NORMAL.

I'll re-read what you wrote above and make more remarks later.

FYI: I didn't make things clear enough in the earlier posts. ON cars with NO theft protection, the Starter cut relay does not exist BUT the electrical plug for that relay, is on those cars. In place of the Starter Cut Relay is a BLUE jumper plug. The blue jumper plugs bridges the Green/Black wire with the Black/White wire in the plug on the harness. The other two/three wires in that plug are not used for anything in this case.

You mean these hose and metal tube?????

Send me your car via UPS and I think I could fix your problems in about two hrs max.

My question would be why would it be no different than before bypassing such wiring?

LMAO if I could afford it man, I would. I'm so sick of the bullshit, of the car sitting. It's the nicest FC I've owned and I'm reluctant to let it go because it has everything I want except reliability.

The 'green' hose on your diagram is the one I was talking about being disconnected. I'm fairly sure when I got done with the swap I had all that connected so it's possible at some point today while changing the water thermo sender I yanked it off by accident. Dunno. Waiting for the car to be stone cold so I can crank it over and check it out.

Another thing I'm wondering about is that if the write-up is in error wiring wise, how come no one else has seemed to have these issues? There's really no reason for it. The car was having these issues when I got it, while it was still auto, and after I converted it...and now it's still having them after I put in a better engine. It's got to be wiring.. It's just tracking it down that's the problem. The good news is, you're here. The bad news is, I'm still a novice at all of this.

I actually do not know where the main starter relay or ignition relay are...or I might but I've just not known what they are.

IMHO the way things should have been done when putting in the manual transmission in place of the automatic:

I'd have left all the original wiring in place for the starting circuit. In order to make the original starting circuit work, I'd have found the four wire plug on the harness called E-14 in the attached jpg. I'd have jumpered b/t the B/R and B/W wires. That act would simulate the so called INHIBITOR switch that was part of the automatic transmission.

The starter would have worked now. There would be no clutch interlock switch, but frankly who cares? I bypassed my clutch interlock switch long ago on my manual car because I like to be able to reach in the window and turn the key to Start the engine without having to sit in the car and push a clutch pedal. Screw Jane Claybrook/Ralph Nader and the like.

The other two wires in that E-14 plug are for the reverse lights. I'd have run them to the reverse swtich on the manual transmission and all would have been taken care of. The B/Y of those two wires is power and the R/G goes to the reverse lights.

On your car I'd have left the Starter Cut Relay in place because you have factory Theft protection.

Another way to make your car work is to splice a wire to that NEW starter solenoid wire you made to start the car. That spliced in wire would go to the ECU's L/B wire on pin 3B. You'd just splice it to the L/B or get one of those Vampire outfits from R/S and attach it to the L/B wire. I forget the name of the "vampire" outfit right now.

I'm about 110% sure you've found why your car won't start when cold. Lack of a Start signal to 3B. IF you do splice a wire b/t your Start wire and the pin 3B, you could use a very thin wire, like a 22-26 gauge wire. There is no current to speak of on that wire at 2B of the ECU.. The smaller/thinner wire would be easier to route/handle than a 16-18ga wire.

The key to this would be to find the plug called E-14. In the jpg attached this four wire plug should be located b/t the starter and the oil filter area. Down lower than the oil filter though.

If found, you could jumper the B/W and the B/R wire in the plug. From what I see, if the original wires at the ignition switch were connected as they were originally, then the car would start when you put the key to Start.

OR you could find that plug, and splice a wire b/t the B/R wire in the E-14 plug, to the NEW starter solenoid wire you put in when you did this swap. That act should put power on pin 2B of the ECU each time you go to Start.

Are we having fun yet?

Second jpg is just FYI as to how the E-14 works with the wiring at the ECU and pin 3B.

I fear I've muddied the water with suggesting several different ways to overcome this problem. Oh well.

Alright, so I went out and tried it your way. No dice. Jumpeing those two wires in the four prong gang plug did nothing when I put the starter wiring back to stock. I do remember using the wiring diagram when I did the swap because I was sure landers was wrong. Using that setup which is the one you just described to me left something to be satisfied, bit I'm not sure what. It acted as if there was a remaining interlock. Regardless I tried it the second way you mentioned I *think*. I located the black wire with the blue stripe near the rest of the tranny wires. This will sound ghetto but I just kinda shoved the wires down the back of the female spade on my NEW trigger wire and shoved it on the solenoid. This, if it works, will not be my permanent setup. Just for testing purposes.

Anyways this is how the setup sits. I've bypassed the stock starter trigger with the new one I had made for the conversion. I took the black/blue (l/b?) wire that was hanging around down there and connected it to the new trigger wire. Now since I had started the car to get it onto the ramps ( which because of this mystery problem took me like twenty minutes of trying to start it then waiting a while before trying again) I'll have to wait for it to cool off enough before I can test the new setup.

Wow I'm sick of this bullshit LOL also, any funny looking words or random periods are because I made some posts from my iPhone and I type like a banshee.

I am having the same problem. It only takes me two minutes to start rather than 20, but the same nonetheless.

The only L/B wire in the starter circuit is shown near the ECU, not the starter itself, so I don't think its going to work for you.

Let's start again at the starter solenoid. The diagram shows the *trigger* wire is B/W there. It goes back to the E-14 plug that has four wires in it.

That's where things are confused on the dwg. See how that B/W wire goes to E-14 but it shows a B/R wire there also. So I have to ask "which is it?" B/W or B/R?

Anyway, the E-14 plug shows it's B/R and if you bypass the inhibitor switch that exists no more, you do that by jumpering b/t the B/R and the B/W in that E-14 plug.

So now the path goes to the Starter Cut Relay as a B/W wire.

If that relay is not being energized by the THEFT UNIT, then it's relaxed as shown in the jpg and the path now goes to the Black/Green wire that goes to the igniiton switch.

Here's one thing I'm getting at. If the THEFT UNIT sees Theft, it energizes the Starter Cut Relay and that relay pulls in so now there is no path from the B/W to the B/G wire. That's something for you to think about.

To prove the Theft Unit isn't pulling that relay in, you could bypass that relay. Pull it out. Then jumper b/t the B/G and the B/W wires and try to start the engine. The E-14 would also have to have it's B/R and B/W jumpered also.