Differences in TII models between the years
Well, now that I know for sure that I want to start with a turbo car when I build up a RX-7, I'm wondering what all the differences were between the years. I know of the usually differences between the S4 and S5 models like the bumpers, trim, tailights, mirrors, wing, rims, engine, and interior. The S5 had the better plastics on the interior that didn't crack as easily, and had the nicer seats and door panels, along with different style gauges, idiot light setup, logicon, and the optional cargo cover. The engine had the same irons and housings, but had stronger internals allowing it to rev higher and higher compression rotors as well as a different turbo. I don't remember if the intake and exhaust manifolds were setup the same though. Also, I believe the tranny was different, but the driveshaft, differential, and axles were the same. I do remember some people saying the S4 had a stronger drivetrain though, wasn't sure if there was any truth to this. IIRC, the 87-88 TII had the "heavy duty" suspension, whereas the other years just had the regular TII suspension setup. All TII's had the same brakes though IIRC. Anything to add to this to aid in my finding a TII? :)
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Twin scroll turbo system and electronically-controlled waste gate. Sounds like you already know most of the differences.
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S4 TII has different manifolds, and different turbo/mani. It also has a 7.62 5th gear, while the S5 has a 7.19 5th gear. S4's have a clutch type LSD, and S5's have a viscous. Suspension was the same for all models.
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Almost forgot, but I believe that the CPU speed was doubled and that the AFM was changed to linear-type from flapper. The s5 had a larger gas tank (18.5 gallons).
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Yea, I knew about the twin-scroll system and the electronically controlled wastegate. I never knew the manifolds were different, but I did know the turbo was different because of the twin-scroll system. I didn't know that about the 5th gear on the tranny though. Basically, the 5th gear on the S5 will save you more gas mileage because it'll run at a lower RPM, but if you're looking for acceleration, the S4 is going to be better in 5th gear. The tranny thing isn't a big deal considering this car will be built for speed, not gas mileage. I forgot about the different rear-end types, but I knew the viscous type differential was better. I was told the 87-88 had the "heavy duty" suspension, but the other TII's had the standard TII suspension by Ice Mark. Never knew that about the CPU speed, but I did hear about the changes with the AFM. The gas tank thing isn't a big issue either, considering I only fill half full to get better gas mileage anyways. Now, how many of these parts are swappable? I'm sure the rear-ends are swappable. Could I put the better turbo and manifold setups on a S4? What about swapping the CPU and AFM?
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 6964052)
Yea, I knew about the twin-scroll system and the electronically controlled wastegate. I never knew the manifolds were different, but I did know the turbo was different because of the twin-scroll system. I didn't know that about the 5th gear on the tranny though. Basically, the 5th gear on the S5 will save you more gas mileage because it'll run at a lower RPM, but if you're looking for acceleration, the S4 is going to be better in 5th gear. The tranny thing isn't a big deal considering this car will be built for speed, not gas mileage. I forgot about the different rear-end types, but I knew the viscous type differential was better. I was told the 87-88 had the "heavy duty" suspension, but the other TII's had the standard TII suspension by Ice Mark. Never knew that about the CPU speed, but I did hear about the changes with the AFM. The gas tank thing isn't a big issue either, considering I only fill half full to get better gas mileage anyways. Now, how many of these parts are swappable? I'm sure the rear-ends are swappable. Could I put the better turbo and manifold setups on a S4? What about swapping the CPU and AFM?
Here's a diagram for the AFM swap. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...4me/s5ins4.jpg |
What do you mean by the clutch type being more predictable? That's good to hear the intake manifolds, exhaust manifold, and turbo are all direct swaps from S5 to S4. Good to see the AFM is pretty easily to swap also. Are the S5 manifolds just a better flowing design? I'm guessing the CPU isn't swapable? Here it is quoted from Mark:
Sorta Right... The complete heavy duty suspension was found only on the 86-87 Sport 87-88 Turbo 88 GTU 88 Convertible But parts of the heavy duty suspension also found on the 86-88 GXL 89-91 Turbo 89-91 convertible The 89-90 GTUs used the same exact suspension as all the other 89-91 non turbo coupes. The GTUs only used the 89-91 Turbos wheels and brakes. So why would they only use the heavy duty suspension on the S4 and just parts of it on other models? |
So, how is the clutch type LSD more predictable and are the CPU's swapable between the S4 and S5? Anything to back up the S4 drivetrain being stronger?
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Alright, so for the full list of differences:
Exterior: Bumpers Trim Tailights Mirrors Wing Rims Gas tank Suspension: S4 had the "heavy duty" suspension Engine: Stronger rotor bearings Higher compression rotors Twin-scroll turbo Electronically controlled wastegate Manifolds AFM CPU Drivetrain: Transmission (S4 had stronger synchros) LSD Flywheel Interior: Better plastics Seats Door panels Gauges Idiot light setup Logicon Optional cargo cover |
Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 6976538)
So, how is the clutch type LSD more predictable
Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 6976538)
and are the CPU's swapable between the S4 and S5?
Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 6964489)
So why would they only use the heavy duty suspension on the S4 and just parts of it on other models?
Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 7043306)
Interior: Better plastics Seats Door panels Gauges Idiot light setup Logicon Optional cargo cover The dealer option S4 cargo cover is actually a much better design than the S5, as the S4 could be taken apart and folded in half in case you needed the extra space. |
s4 has less weight
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OH and S4's are hella ugly compared to an S5. :D
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Originally Posted by chaosseven
(Post 7043912)
OH and S4's are hella ugly compared to an S5. :D
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Originally Posted by CyberPitz
(Post 7044315)
D: I resent that and disagree, good sir! :)
Don't lie to yourself. You are secretly pricing the cost of a repaint AS WE TYPE. And you know it. I know it. Let it be known! |
Another major difference is the OMP. In the S4 it is mechanical but in the S5 the Ecu controls the OMP. So even if do manage to plug in the s5 computer in an s4(you can't because they are different plugs) the car won't run properly because of the OMP. I don't even think an s4 can turn on with an s5 computer.
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I'm really liking my S4 TII... although I always thought the argument was that the S5's had more durable interior and exterior trim pieces? rubberized vs hard brittle plastic.
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Originally Posted by SpeedOfLife
(Post 7045598)
I'm really liking my S4 TII... although I always thought the argument was that the S5's had more durable interior and exterior trim pieces? rubberized vs hard brittle plastic.
The S5 coupes also had a much smaller arm rest glove box and no sport arm rest option. |
I see. Well the only non-stock thing the PO of my '87 TII is they installed an S5 radio surround, so now I need the shift surround, I might modify the old S4 one to fit for the time being...
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square tail lights match the body lines on the s4
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Originally Posted by kleetuz
(Post 7046058)
square tail lights match the body lines on the s4
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Originally Posted by kleetuz
(Post 7046058)
square tail lights match the body lines on the s4
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Alright, so to revise the list:
Exterior: Different front bumper Different rear bumper Different side mouldings S5 had round tailights, S4 had square ones S5 had rounder mirrors, S4 had square ones (both had option for aero type mirrors) Wings were different between series, and depended on which model you had Rims were different bweteen series, and depended on which model you had S5 had 18.5 gallon tank, S4 had 16 gallon Suspension: S4 had the heavy duty suspension, and S5 just had parts of it Engine: S5 had a lighter rotating assembly (better for higher RPM power) S4 had a heavier rotating assembly (better for lower RPM power) S5 had stronger rotor bearings S5 had higher compression rotors, which were lighter and slightly weaker S5 had twin-scroll turbo S5 had an electronically controlled wastegate S5 had better flowing manifolds S5 used the more efficient plunger-type AFM S5 used a faster processing ECU Mechanical OMP on S4, computer controlled on S5 Drivetrain: S5 had a different 5th gearing with more ribs on the external case, and had weaker synchros than the S4 S5 had viscious type LSD, whereas S4 had clutch type (personal choice which is better) S5 had a synchromesh reverse gear S5 used a lighter flywheel Interior: S5 had rubberized radio/logicon surround (tend to crack more often) S5 had rubberized shifter surround (tend to crack more often) Seats Door panels Gauges Idiot light setup and surround Logicon S5 had a standard cargo cover on some models, but the deal option cargo cover for the S4 was a better design S5 had a smaller arm rest S5 had a smaller glove box S5 had no sport arm rest option Wasn't the idiot light surround also rubberized on the S5? And what do you mean by smaller arm rest and no sport arm rest option? |
Originally Posted by 13b4me
(Post 7046502)
All body lines are the same.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wolf
(Post 7046619)
Suspension:
S4 had the heavy duty suspension, and S5 just had parts of it Interior: S5 had rubberized radio/logicon surround (tend to crack more often) S5 had rubberized shifter surround (tend to crack more often) Idiot light setup and surround Logicon S5 had a smaller glove box Wasn't the idiot light surround also rubberized on the S5? And what do you mean by smaller arm rest and no sport arm rest option? The Sport Arm rest was a $50 or so S4 option that was a triple height arm rest in the center console. This allowed you to rest your elbow easier without leaning. |
Yea Icemark, I'm basically speaking of the turbo differences here. Guess I'll revise my list.
Exterior: Different front bumper Different rear bumper Different side moldings S5 had round tailights, S4 had square ones S5 models came standard with the rounder aero mirrors, The only the 88 GTU, 88 Convertible and 88 Turbo model had a version of the aero mirrors. Wings were different between series, and depended on which model you had Rims were different between series, and depended on which model you had S5 had 18.5 gallon tank, S4 had 16 gallon Suspension: S4 had the heavy duty suspension, and S5 just had parts of it Engine: S5 had a lighter rotating assembly (better for higher RPM power) S4 had a heavier rotating assembly (better for lower RPM power) S5 had higher compression rotors, which were lighter and slightly weaker S5 had twin-scroll turbo S5 had an electronically controlled wastegate S5 had better flowing manifolds S5 used the more efficient plunger-type AFM S5 used a faster processing ECU Mechanical OMP on S4, computer controlled on S5 Drivetrain: S5 had a different 5th gearing with more ribs on the external case, and had weaker synchros than the S4 S5 had viscious type LSD, whereas S4 had clutch type (personal choice which is better) S5 had a synchromesh reverse gear S5 used a lighter flywheel Interior: S5 had rubberized radio/logicon surround (cracked less often than the S4) S5 had rubberized shifter surround (cracked less often than the S4) Seats S5 had some dash and trunk pieces liked to crack more often than the S4 pieces Door panels Gauges 88 and S5 models had the Visor'd idiot light surround. 88 and S5 models had the blacked out look idiot light setup. They looked simular but had different icons and wired differently 86-87 models had a different idiot light setup than the S5 models Sticker on the logicon S5 had a standard cargo cover on some models, The S4 models had the dealer option cargo cover which was a foldable design S5 had a smaller arm rest glove box interior due to the mouse belts. S5 did not have the flocked interior on the glove box, from the S4 GXL and Turbo II models S5 had no sport arm rest option (triple height arm rest) Alright, I think that should about do it. I can't really think of anything else. <moderators note= I got tired of explaining the differences so I just edited the bigger flaws> |
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