coolant!!! searched.
 

my coolants starting to look real rusty so i want to flush it. i have a couple of questions.

they guys at napa was unsure what coolant to use. i always thought it was the orange fluid, but ive also seen people with the green fluids. does it matter?

what coolant is the best? they told me i should use zerex ZXEL1 for mazdas.

i also read up on the prestone's "flush n fill kit" kit (in archive) and was wondering if there was a benefit for it compared to the old fashion haynes manual, fill and flush with the radiator and radiator drainplug.

i know that he flushed it from the hose near the firewall, any benefits with that?
he also stated to take off the oil filter to install the device. wont that cause oil to spill? i always wonder if i could just change the oil filter by itself.

is it necessary to drain the last of the water from the engine drain plug? should i since i my water is lookin rusty meaning the systems infested?

what brand chemical should i use to clean the system for rust with? will it get the whole system? even the engine?

its pretty much straight foward after that, thanks

ohh what ratio to use for so cal? 50/50?

Theres a write-up on here somewhere, search for "how-to flush coolant."

Don't take this to heart (meaning, search before going about this), but this is how I would flush.

Completely empty radiator. Fill completely will JUST water. Run car until warm, empty radiator. Repeat until water coming out is CLEAR.

Empty radiator one more time, fill with 50% distilled water, 50% GREEN coolant. Any kind of green is fine. DO NOT mix orange and green, as they quickly turn into a sludge. Sludge doesn't flow, lol! Orange is just not something I would use.

Now, idle the car for a while, drive around a bit...then check the coolant. You'll probably have to add some.

One thing I have NO idea how to do..get an air bubble out of the system.

Hope this helped :D

not to be mean but did you read my post? i dont think you answered any of my questions. LOL

wait you did, GREEN and 50/50. thanks

i'm pretty sure that somewhere in the manual is says to only use ethylene glycol coolant. I am pretty sure that the orange is some other (less poisonous) type of coolant, therefore, not what we are supposed to use

hmmm. thats strange, he offer me the Zerex ZXEL 1 which had an orange cap and he said the fluid was orange...

HINT: You want to end up with a mix of 50/50 coolant/water. So, remember that when you do the last drain of plain water from the radiator there will be a substantial amount of plain water left in various parts of the cooling system and engine. You want to add a mix consisting of more coolant than water in order to end up with a final 50/50 mix. Personally, I add straight coolant initially and let the engine run to mix the coolant and water and then I check it with a coolant tester (cheap at any parts store) and add water or coolant to achieve the final 50/50 mixture.

thanks, so orange is a no? green is to go? i still need a couple of answer for the questions above. thanks

imo it is much easier to get your coolant flushed with the machine many lube shops have because to get the coolant drain on your engine block off can sometimes be a little tricky

check out this
coolant flushing

what coolant to use, i want to start on it already...

thanks

Use Prestone's Extended Life (ethylene glycol). Mix 50/50 with Distilled Water.
Most tap waters are very high in minerals and phosphates, distilled water is free from impurities which could cause excess corrosion.
You could also add a bottle of Redline's WetterWater(12oz) to protect against "hot spots". Check -> www.redlineoil.com/whitepaper/17.pdf

Orange? As in DexCool colored orange?

Those who have previously heard this from me about this can skip to the next thread. If you are even vaguely considering orange antifreeze you may want to read this. My original engine had great power, was burning about a quart every 1000 to 1500 miles, would smoke on cold starts, and had 367,000 miles on it. I got my monies worth on the first motor, but I KNOW it died a premature death. After 10 years and over 300,000 miles, I installed a new radiator. Eight months later, I did a coolant change and went with DexCool. Six months after that, I needed ANOTHER new radiator. I took the radiator to the best radiator shop I know, and the best radiator guy I know said whatever I was using for coolant devoured the radiator. I bought another brand new radiator and changed back to team green. Six months later, the car blew a water seal. Coincidence? Keep reading –

In the May 2002 Car and Driver, Patrick Bedard ran a column on DexCool. In the C and D article, Mr. Bedard interviewed the technical director for Zerex, who said,

"The GM DexCool formula works fine in systems that are designed for it. But eats old-style radiators with lead solder, and the inhibitors work too slowly to protect against the sort of corrosion that happens so fast that it actually erodes metal - for example, the cavitation likely in the imperfectly designed water pumps of older cars. Cars born with green coolant shouldn't be changed to orange."

As a side note, before I went with DexCool, someone warned me that it would ruin my cooling system - I thought they didn't know what they were talking about.

Now I may have been an abnormality, Patrick Bedard may be all wrong, AND the technical director for Zerex may not know what he’s talking about (yeah, right), but then there are the DexCool lawsuits by owners of GM vehicles.

At this point, if you're still considering orange antifreeze, there's nothing else I can say.

I haven't tried it yet but am planning on using it after my next flush.

Bottom of page here to understand what it is.
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fcengine_cooling.html

this page here for a better price.
http://pineappleracing.com/Merchant2...tegory_Code=CS

well pepboys and napas computer and chart said to use orange. kregan, the ghetto less porfessional looking store said car in the 90's should use green. thats 2 1/2 over green so i got the orange with a flush fluid (same brand). ill just clean it out good before i put the coolant in. i bought 3gl of purified distilled water and zerex ZXEL1.

questions, my coolant (the old coolant thats still in the car) looks orange. is it possible that it was once green but corroded into a orange looking liquid? theres no signs of green at all.

after draining i should flush with hose water and drain with the engine off correct?

Yes it is possible the coolant was once green. When I changed my fluid recently from when the old owner had it mine was also a brownish color. Did you say you got the Orange fluid? If so take it back and get the green stuff. You can also get a premixed 50/50 fluid with water mix as well. You could always get it flushed professionally too. It cost me $115, but they pressure checked the radiator and flushed and filled.

i m running evans npg+, with no pressure for over two years now and it gets the job done... i talked to the guys at pinapple racing, they really know their stuff and tell you the correct way to do the conversion...i think its worth it to never have to worry about it once its done...

two stores told me to use orange? i dont get it?

the contant contains

Ethylene Glycol (107-21-1), Water (7732-18-5), Deitheylene Glycol (111-46-6), Potassium Hydroxide (1310-58-3) 2-Ethylhexanoic Acid (149-57-5), Corrosion Inhibitors, Defoamers and Dyes.

is there anything bad in that list?

Zerex is owned by Valvoline. I went to the Valvoline website, entered “zxel1” in their search engine, and saw this photo:

http://www.valvoline.com/images/prod..._bot_ZXEL1.jpg

I hope your container did not have the word Dex-Cool on it. DexCool is the kiss of death. The DexCool formula has been abondoned for a better compound called HOAT.

The Zerex website also had this blurb:
"Using The Wrong Chemistry Could Be A Costly Mistake! Using the correct chemistry is critical to the life of your cooling system and engine. Coolant specifications vary by vehicle make and model. Unfortunately, you will not likely know the mistake was made until it's too late. The wrong chemistry can cause metal corrosion, gasket deterioration, and more. There is no 'one size fits all' chemistry that is approved for use in all vehicles. Don't take chances—use Zerex AutoMaker Approved Chemistry."

Antifreeze is a particular color because DYE is added. Zerex antifreeze comes in three colors – green, yellow, and orange. IAT (Inorganic Additive Technology) is green, OAT (Organic Acid Technology) is orange, and the best stuff, which is called HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology). I don’t know if you can use HOAT and would NOT recommend that you try. I can 100% guarantee you that when I bought my FC, the OE antifreeze that was in the radiator was green. I’ve seen rust colored antifreeze in cars, but I’ve never seen green antifreeze turn orange.

Lastly, neither the NAPA nor Pep Boys counter clerks will pay for your damages if you use the wrong product. The Technical Director of Zerex says you should use GREEN antifreeze. I agree with him.

man this is some bull shit, i called mazda and they told me to use whatever the store recommends, ORANGE.

the bottle says GM DEX-COOL APPROVED for use in the following vehicles, it shows a list of american cars, then at the bottle it says "also for use in the following apps. it shows a list of imports."

on the back it clearly states "ZEREX is APPROVED by GM for DEX-COOL apps"

ZEREX APPROVED chemistry using OAT.

if someone like ICEMARK, could just tell me what he specifically uses, it would make my day a lot better. thanks for the replies.

i got everything a part but im still contemplating on whether i should do it or not. ohh theres no bleed screw for the n/a s5?

i still wouldnt trust a shop to do my shit. thats like paying someone to put in the incorrect coolant for me. hhahahahhahah

Good Point. I would call some of the experienced engine builders and see what they would recommend. I know I have Green shit in my car, it was rebuilt by Kevin @ RR and he's the one that put it in because he installed the engine back in the car.

Don't ya just love it when some one asks a question then argues with all the answers.

:balls:

Just use what your pepboys tell you to use. You should be fine, and the price of radiators has come down alot recently anyway.



Personally, I am on the Evans NPG+ no pressure bandwagon.

yeah sorry i dont mean to be a jackass, ive just been driving around all day yeaterday and today and im still at square one.

radiators are ok to replace but does it not fuck up the engine too?

i called another napa and they check the computer saying the coolant should be the ZXEL1 orange. i told him my "friends" said it should be GREEN. he check his chart (not the computer) and it says mazda from 1998 and down should be ZX001 GREEN! WTF?!

i think ill get zx001, since its green... even though my coolant look orange.

s5 n/a dont have bleeder plug on the top of the radiator?

Exactly, don't listen to any of those autostore fucks cause most of them don't even know what the fuck an RX-7 looks like. They only tell you what the computer tells them. Thats why I said contact some experienced people and ask. Otherwise you could fuck some stuff up and wouldn't know it until it was waaaayyy too late.

i think this club is the most experienced... but they use that "Evans NPG+ no pressure"

what is he talkin about with the pressure? after flushing and filling it should build pressure correct?

again s5 n/a has no bleeder plug correct? man i did now know it was going to be this hard. hahahahahh

how do you guys feel about HOAT coolant?

Call Kevin at Rotary Resurrection or shoot him an email and ask him what coolant he runs in his car. Or call someone at Racing Beat, Hell PM some of the guys who roadrace their cars in the race car section and see what they use. They've gotta run good shit because their cars are under much more harsh conditions than daily drivers like mine.

You might as well contact a shop that actually knows what it's doing. I personally, would NOT trust any store like napa or pepboys to give me any advice about my car, especially when it's possible that they may not understand rotary engines quite as well as they do other sorts of internal combustion devices.

In short, since you're near the bay area, you should call a local shop and ask them what they use. I know that Rotary Extreme is in Fremont. Their phone number is 510-683-8850. It couldn't hurt to give them a call and ask about it. I'm sure they know just a tiny bit more than pepboys does.

Well if someone stated this sorry but I did not read the whole thread. I work at a shop where we do radiator flushes so I know a bit about coolant. DexCool is just GMS form of coolant, just like motorcraft is Fords brand of oil. I would not use DexCool in a non-GM vehicle just as the reason being it is not for a non-GM vehicle. Ford has a new coolant but I forgot the name and it is a really light orange almost pink colored coolant. Seeing how Ford now owns Mazda that is my best guess to being as why a parts store would suggest using it. As for coolant to use, us a already premixed 50/50 green coolant. And for a flush kit just get the Prestone coolant flush kit.

Yes, that's it. Get another opinion. Ask Icemark. When and if he says DexCool is crap, you can move on to the next testimonial. Who cares what the Zerex technical director has to say? He only has a PhD and works for Zerex. Forget the fact that Zerex themselves savs that DexCool isn't for your car. What could the manufacturer of the product possibly know that the "clerks from Pep Boys" don't? Toss aside the fact that DexCool is for GM vehicles built after 1996 and Saab's built ofter 2003. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't even work right in it's intended application - http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html Disregard the fact that there are DOZENS of individual lawsuits and any number of websites asking people to sign up for class action lawsuits because DexCool has devoured their cooling systems.

http://www.cwcd.com/dexcool.php
http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=1095
http://www.lawcash.com/settlement/la...docket&ID=2574

Just dump that crap in your car and drive it like you stole it. The Rx-7 community needs more parts cars. I'd say in six months you'll be ready for a donation.

the question for icemark was to ask him what he uses specifically. and i stated "LIKE icemark" meaning someone with the experience and knowledge. i never neglected the facts from zerex about the Dex-Cool. thats is why i DIDNT use it and was searching for more information. its kind of common sense to know that different chemical chemistry will destroy you radiator and motor. you didnt really have to state that, but since you think your so smart, why dont you do all of us a favor and tell us what you use. thanks

ohh and again im sorry if im comming off as a jackass. im jstt caught up in the middle. i mean certified machanics tell me one thing and you guys tell me another. i just want to get it right. sorry agian.

ohh one more thing i call a lot of shops and they got a new chart for the Zerex coolant and it states ZXEL1 (orange) for all mazda. so the guys at zerex with the phd like to be hippacrits.

It’s your car, run whatever you want. If you want someone with more experience than me, more power to you. I’m just a guy who does his own maintenance and who personally put over 367,000 miles on his original S5 engine before having it fail.

BTW, here’s a link to the current Zerex application chart.

http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/pdf/Z...olantChart.pdf

As you can see for yourself, Zerex doesn’t recommend DexCool for ANYTHING built before 1996. Rather than Zerex being hypocritical, it really sounds like your sources don’t know what they’re talking about.

But like I said, it’s you car, use whatever you want.

Can't you just run straight water on it? I mean its the summer.

I don't understand what's so difficult about listening to a nearly unanimous opinion in not recommending dexcool.

Would you rather believe rotary owners or some clerks at an autoparts store that probably can't even tell you how a rotary works?

Like I said before, give those rotary shops a call and ask them what they use.

you guys are making this bigger then it has to be. you guys shop at napa and peps. why dont you just tell me what you guys get for coolant? DONE, thats i all ask man.

i feel you man, youre just looking out for the community. i just dont unerstand why their charts says orange for all mazdas but online its different. i cetainly trust you guys more then them so what should i get besides that stuff online? i dont really want to wait.

thanks

Because it contains no corrosion inhibitors, no water pump lubrication, could freeze if he forgets to remove it before the cold weather, etc. Running pure water in a steet car is always a bad idea.

Marcus_F, how did you get 367,000 miles on your engine? What fluids & mods do you have?

yea i wondering the same thing, was it freeway miles? did it acually leak coolant/oil at around 200ks but it wasnt bad so you drove it untill it gave? or was it running with no problems down to 376ks (leaking no coolant/oil) and then just gave?

It ran fine until the coolant seal went. No fluid leaks of any kind, Burned about a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles, good fuel economy, good power, no hot start issues - ran great until the coolant seal went at 367,000 miles. It did smoke some on cold start for the last 60K or so. All I did was normal maintenance - radiator, water pump, brake MC, clutch hydraulics, oil cooler lines, tons of brake pads, countless sparkplugs, tires, coolant, dino oil (valvoline, castrol, chevron, whatever was on sale), brake fluid, trans oil, axle oil, etc. .

A couple of mods - additional grounds, an upgraded California spec ECU (the ECU $150 upgrade did absolutely nothing – I had a spare N350 ECU and a N351, but they all ran the same), early RB header, late model RB mufflers, Random Tech cat (when it had a cat, RB pre-silencer when it didn’t), RB lightweight flywheel, BBS wheels, Mallory CD ignition, several different electric fans at different points (none of them cooled as well as a mechanical fan), and probably some other junk that I’ve forgotten over the years.

Lots of freeway, lots of street, and lots of southern California canyon runs. Just your average 430,000+ mile 1989 GXL.

http://marcusfitzhugh.com/SOCALRX/mbf77.jpg http://www.socal7s.org/images/gray_rotor.gif

The real trick to rotary engine longevity is regular maintenance (oil changes every 5K <3 months or so for me>, yearly coolant changes, annual sparkplug changes, bi-annual brake fluid changes, transmission fluid every three years, fixing everthing as soon as it breaks), and SoCal RX-Club!

basically true love. so is there anything i should know about zerex ZX001 (yeah its green) before i put it in?

also what is all this talk about running coolant with no pressure? it builds pressure to circulate right?

i empty out some of my coolant today and it realy does look like a faded orange. whiped some up with a white paper towel and it looks some what orange. im going to drain the whole thing out in a clear container to see if it really is orange.

so its possible the coolant that was once green truned orange brown over use? i know someone answer this already but i would like some more input. thanks

How much coolant does a rx-7 take?

An NA with a fresh rebuild will hold 7.7 quarts. A TII will hold a quart and a half more. Even with the block plug I could never get all the coolant out on a simple change. About 7 quarts for an NA.

how is it bad, like what if he lives in a warming climate and it doesnt freeze at all. I think it would be fine.

Is that for a stock radiator? I just bought a new koyo radiator. Would it take the same amount? Thanks

What is hard to understand about "no corrosion inhibitors and no water pump lubricant"? :)

I can always tell an engine that has had straight water run in it because the water jacket is FULL of rust and the housings are dissolved to the point where they start to become useless for anything other then bookends...

I don't think he understands what that means. Let me simplify:

Straight water will rust your engine.
Antifreeze "oils" your water pump. Your pump will jam without it.

I don’t know what the capacity is on a Koyo radiator. If it has a higher volume than the stock radiator, I’d use additional distilled water to make up the difference. “Additional distilled water” meaning rather than a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water, having a higher proportion of water (40/60 for example) but ALWAYS having it mixed with antifreeze. People who don’t see the problem with straight water may not have seen a disassembled an engine – piston or rotary. Water devours aluminum. This is what can happen to a rotor housing that’s run on water. At this point, it’s good for nothing.

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faqpics/rotorhsg/rhsg05.jpg

i guess yall just missed it...

thanks

so no bleed plug for n/a's?

please explain the pressure thing to me. i have decided to use green.

thanks for all the help so far.

aight so i located the radiator drain and the engine drain plugs. for the engine drain plug do i just let it spill out onto the engine mount and what evers in the way? i begining to think i should get the flush n fill.