240rwhp N/a!!!!!!!!!!
 

What would it take to make a N/A put out that kind of number? Is it possible? I'm talking about all-motor here. No turbo kits, superchrager, or NOS.

Jay Kim

series 4 or 5?

Port the shit out of it.

I imagine you could, with ports the size of watermelons. You'd get that sort of output at some sort of stratospheric RPM, but have little low-end power.

I saw some thing on th enet about a guy that took an 86 modded the shit out of the car and still wasn't happy. so he took fiberglass and made an intake manifold for a 2 barrel carb, Weber I think. Any way he made it so the carb only worked after 3000 rpm. he used the carb with the stock fuel injection. cut holes in the rotor hosing it looked like. the fuel injecton system looked nomal. crazy shit. I think he was in the prossess of fine tuning it. I am going to try to find that site now

Re: 240rwhp N/a!!!!!!!!!!
 

at least a 13B Bridge Port with a 48mm IDA or Side draft feeding it.

A Bridge port, J Port, Monster Port or Peripheral Port either Carburated or Fuel Injected will make 230rwhp or more.

i am sure it's possible but cost a lot..

if i were you then i would just built a turbo model and can acheive that hp with much less money...(unless u are obsess with NA)

There are a few people on the forum that claim when they are through with their mods they should have around 230-240 HP on a stock port motor. All I can say is produce a dyno sheet as there are many on the forum interested in the results.

Back to the question originally asked, port the hell out of it and buy 10,000 RPM tach since the factory one only reads to 7000 or 8000 depending on the year of the N/A its in.:)

Re: Re: 240rwhp N/a!!!!!!!!!!
 

What's a J Port? Are monster Ports and Peripheral Ports the same?

My motor,
1 - port matched TB with "choke" butterflies removed.
2 - 89 intake port matched lower manifold ported and matched to block. Sixth port actuators removed and filled.
3 - Street port (Mazdatrix templates).
4 - 90 rotors stock
5 - 85 GSLSE E-shaft
6 - Exhaust ports by Rodger Mandiville
7 - Fully ballanced rotating assembly
8 - 5.5 clutch and 3.5# flywheel
9 - Mazda comp header, custom exhaust
10 - Stock FI 86-88 with modified ECU, stock sived injectors
11 - Cosmo fuel pump
12 - NGK race plugs with stock ingnition
13 - underdrive pullies
9300 rpm =199.7 hp at the rear wheels, est. 240 at the flywheel. I have the dyno sheet to prove it.

Post the sheet. What car is this in?

My old peripheral engine put down 245 or 240rwhp, without nos, turbos' etc. However, i was running the injector duty cycle up around 130%, at 65psi of fuel. Can you say the injectors where a little to small? I do have a dyno sheet, but no scanner:(

CJ

the car is a SCCA E production race car. see it at:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...photos/EP6.jpg

I have to scan the sheet. I'll see if the dyno guy has it on record. BTW this motor is for sale. As is the rest of the car. Make me an offer

Geeeeeezus! Isn't the stock one like 29 pounds? Where did you get a 3.5 pound one? Is it even driveable?


and pp13bnos... what do you mean, 130% injector duty cycle? are you factoring in the added fuel pressure in that number?

-Tesla

The clutch is made by Quartermaster and sold by Mazda Comp. No it is not drivable. It is in or out, nothing between. :D With hot slicks it makes for some interesting maneurvering in the pits...

http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...ngId=-1&id=952

No pic of the flywheel, sorry. Whole deal goes for about $1200

I have seen two N/A 13b's that can make this type of power, with dyno records to prove it. First was a 13b peripheral port with a 51mm Weber IDA, made 240hp at the wheels at about 8700rpm. Second was a full Motec injected street ported 6 port 13b E production motor that made 218 hp at the wheels but would only last two or three laps before it blew up. this motor had ceramic apex seals and hours of dyno time to develope. they built three motors just to test the porting and exhaust. the peripheral ported motor is the only easy way to get to those numbers. We are in the process of testing and dyno tuning a 13b fuel injected peripheral port motor. we are hoping to make 250-275 hp at the wheels. Dyno work is scheduled for the weekend before christmas so I will post the results when I have them.

EProdRx7,
that is a very nice car and I like the body kit(did you build it yourself or buy it?). my turbo should end up looking exactly like an E production car. Maybe I'll built a N/A motor and try some SCCA races sometime soon. what size and type tires are you running? thanks

I know the motors you're talking about, too bad they popped.

Well first off EProd we make the sort of power with our ITS cars, with and 89 motor, no porting, open exhaust, full fuctional six ports and VDI.

I also know of a very large street ported motor running a motec fuel injection system that has recorded over 230 rwhp, we hope to copy there designed in the new Ep car we are building.

By the way why are you selling yours.

Well I raced in ITS also and won a lot of races. Sylvan (you know who he is) claims the most he has ever gotten out of an ITS motor is 165 at the wheels. Haskel (works for ST) says he can get 175. I think they are both trying to sell motors. If you are getting 200 from a LEGAL its motor I will buy it from you. name your price. But if it is an ilegal motor I want double back!
I am selling my car because there are people in this form of racing that are willing to spend $30k for a motech system and $120K on the rest of the car. Someday they wil learn how to drive and I wont have a chance. I just don't have the desire to win a club race that badly.

So exactly how much torque are the high HP N/As putting down?

In one of my japanese rx7 magazines there are pictures of a "sequential port" motor with custom intake manifold. Basically it works like 6 port, but instead of normal 6 port, it opens up a peripheral port at high rpm

Hey E-Prod, I can tell you from fact that Syl and Haskel are getting well over those amounts from there motors. One of the guys down here bought one from them and it made well over 175 hp.

We made more horsepower by setting up the exhaust for the motor. By changing the characteristics of the exhaust on a dyno we managed to get 14 more rwhp than we had using a RB or Mazdatrix exhaust setup. Most of these units are designed to be generic use, but have not been designed to pull the max amount of horsepower out of a motor. So there is no need to buy a motor from me, get your motor tuned on a dyno. It might take a couple of tries, but every motor is different. We switched exhaust from one car to the next and it made less horsepower but more torque through the RPM range.

Now with the new rules coming out for IT allowing the use of computer upgrades, it will mean having to spend a whole lot more money and time on R/D to get more out of these motors.

Hey ItsRotary7 - Any secrets you want to share on the exhaust configuration? Some of us can't afford multiple dyno runs and would like to know a good starting point for our tuning. I'm running in FPrep SoloII and any extra torque is always nice expecially midrange. Currently its your standard Racing Beat Header that collects about 48" donwstream and then exits out a single SupertrappMuffler with no disc installed. Does this sound like I'm on the right track?

Thanks

Well Fprep your on the right track, we use a tuned header from AWR into a single 4" pipe a couple of 65 degree bends placed about 12" after the end of the header straight back into a single dynomax muffler, I also have tuned with a super trap, but you need to dyno it and change in discs to see what works for your car.

It might not increase horsepower but if you look at the amount of time your motor is above the specified horsepower, you need to adjust so your motor doesn't just peak. If you can set up your motor so you make x amount of horsepower for the max amount of time. Most engines will start to make horsepower then peak, if you can get that horsepower to stay on for more rpm.

Wait a year and buy a Renesis block :)

t2 with intake, cat-back 60mm dual exhaust, and a boost controller will run 13's easy...and last 180k miles no problem.

While this is true, thats besides the point... I think high power NA rotaries are BADASS! Once I get my T2 up to where I want it, I'm going to start on a partial bridge RX3 with fuel injection and shoot for the 250 rwhp mark... we'll see. Just as long as its LOUD AS SHIT, I'll be happy :D

I would start by putting on a performance air intake and 3'' midpipe, and take off the mufflers (shit sounds wicked as hell) That frees up a noticeable difference the rest everyone else has already said.

Thanks ItsRotary7. One day I'll make it to a chassis dyno and get it setup properly but for now I have to ask questions. I'll probably stick with my Supertrapp. I just like the way it looks sticking out the rear and that I can change the disc easy if I need to move the car around the yard. Don't want to piss the neighbors off.

Thanks again.

The sds injection system i had at the time, would tell you what the duty cycle on the injecters where. It was in real time, no data logging.:( O-well. I ended up running a small lock washer through the rear rotor, and had to sell the injection system to finance the rebuild. Then i just swaped to a 51mm webber, and called it good. CJ

Re: Re: Re: 240rwhp N/a!!!!!!!!!!
 

Monster ports still come in thru the factory port runners and enter thru the side. Peripheral ports on the other hand come in straight thru the rotor housing and require a custom inlet "runner" to be used.

Eprod,
Congratulations on your runoffs appearance!

If you don't mind, who built your motor?

Thanks,
Berny H.

So is it possible to build a 240rwhp N/A rex that's streetable?

What I'm trying to compete against here is a 92 Civic HB CRVtec that runs low 12s. DAILY DRIVER!

Jay Kim

For all those that think this can't be done are on CRACK!!!
6 years ago people said that it would be impossible to make a Front wheel drive civi run 9's ....it would be against all laws of physics. doing so, would send the world into chaos......mother's would throw away their babies, hell would freeze over and cats and dogs would make love to each other.
To disprove those that don't believe, check out www.grmotorsports.com RO-SPIT. N/A and this cranks out over 200hp. i think it's actually like 225. :bigthumb: and they have a Bridgeport ...Nothing insane like a P port. although they did wind up having to use a very expensive fuel and computer system. Electromotive. But hey no one said this was cheap. so to the unbelievers..." I fart in your general direction" -some french guy-

Yeah, the castle gate guard on Monty Python's "Holy Grail".

Anyway, I see a lot of TII and NA guys going with single exhaust. This seems counterintuitive to me, but I guess there must be proof that this is a good idea. Why not use two mufflers instead of one? I can see if you just run a straight pipe out the back with no muffler, or one huge straight through, but if you have to use a muffler, wouldn't it be better to run two than one?

Ren

I'll bite. I don't feel like doing the math, but when one accounts for the boundary layer in the exhaust pipe's airflow, one big pipe will flow more than two smaller ones. There's also not a split halfway down the pipe, which introduces backpressure and disrupts the gas flow (and thereby decreases flow velocity = less scavenging).

Oh, and it's MUCH lighter.

Brandon

Fprep,
AWR has a very interesting header and exhaust system that kind of goes against what has been used before. they were using a very short header and a dual exhaust system. I know Tony was going to try and have these built out of mild steel and attempt to sell them at a reasonable cost. The one on the E-production car is out of stainless and would be very expensive. looks like itsrotary7 has already got his hands on part of the system. Dyno work is really the only way to find the very last bit of HP. As well as building several different exhausts and trying all the combinations. these are the reasons some of these things take so long to develope. testing and retesting is very expensive and alot of times people just get the parts they have working good and then leave it alone. they don't experiment with different pieces to try and find that extra bit power because of the cost.

these HP number are not impossible, but do take alot of work and experience to obtain. these people have many hours of developement time invested to get to these numbers and as always "streetable" is a personal thing. what is considered comfortable for one person would be unbearable for another.

Bern,
Sorry for the late reply. I was on vacation. Thanks for the compliment. Did we meet at the Runoffs? I met so many new people it's hard to remember everyone. As for the motor I built it and have done all the development myself. This is about the fourth or fifth EP motor and about 10 ITS motors before that.
John

Well, as far as the turbo is concerned. I already had a TII that produced about 250 at the wheel and ran low 14s or high 13s in 1/4.

But I started out with a turbo. I want to get back to basics and go back to N/A and learn from scratch. Turbo's are little to easy to gain power where as N/A's you kinda have to squeeze the power out of a motor.

Jay Kim

Hey Eprod, I'm interested in the motor for sale, e-mail mehere

So I know alot of people on here are streetported, anyone got some dyno numbers / times / reliability ratings for us? I'm wanting to build up a Solo II N/A w/ at least 200 rwhp, and still drive it on the street.

This is a little off topic, but does anyone have any pictures... of J-ports, Bridge Ports, Monster ports, and Peripheral ports...

My buddy and I did a street port... but ive never have seen what the others look like...

Roger Mandeville's shop builds motors that make these power levels. The problem is that they are really not street motors. He said he recommended rebuilding them about every 25 hours of use. I think he did have a 12A putting out 250+ at the motor... (impressive)

I bought one
 

I bought a periphrial Port motor from pineapple Ishould have around 280 to 320 horspower at the wheels
I will show you a dyno chart to the day i get the motor installed if you guys would like to see it

ALSO i am going to drive it as a daily driver And i plan to for a while 2
And i will probably shoot NOS for a little more getty up should get me in the 10's

I highly doubt you will have 280-320 at the wheels. At the flywheel, maybe.

The "record" HP for an N/A was something like 360-380HP at the flywheel, it was actually a Monster Bridge and not a peripheral, Monsters can actually have more port runner area than a peripheral can because they come in from both sides. The engine's design life was 6 racing hours - just long enough to run six 1-hour races, then it needs rebuilt.

I have a feeling N/A HP levels will go way up if people can put Renesis rotors in a traditional peripheral-exhaust engine. Renesis engines run at much higher C/Rs than we are used to seeing, which is how they're able to make (relatively) so much power with so little port timing. The 787B engine made 350hp per 2 rotors at relatively low RPM and with good fuel economy (Le Mans has a fuel limit) because they ran something like 12:1 compression (forget exact number).

280-320 at the flywheel is very attainable. I know a guy with a Midget with a 320hp PP. It's a full blown race car though, the exhaust on the street would be unbearable by other drivers.

The Renesis make big power not just because of higher compression, but because the exhaust port is moved to the side housing. That has completely eliminated overlap between the intake and exhast stroke.

That was somewhat hard to follow, maybe you could help me out a little. You have a dual-outlet header, and the collector is 12" after the end of the header, right? Then from there it goes back to the muffler? What size piping are on the headers, pipes before the collector, and after the collector? Sorry for all the questions, but Im redoing my whole exhaust, and I would like a good starting point before I do some dyno-tuning to get as much as I can get out of it.

I still maintain 320 at the wheels isn't possible for anything but an all-out, zero-longevity race engine... at 15% drivetrain loss (typical) that means the car is doing over 375 at the flywheel, which means he probably has the most powerful N/A on the planet...

The Renesis engine is CHOKED. You need overlap to make power. Without it you can't get any scavenging, which is why bridge and peripheral port engines make such big power!

I really expect that the renesis engine gets as much HP as can be had from the NA 1.3 twin rotor. If you really look at the cutaways, you'll see 2 throttle bodies, two separate induction systems, and I think I see a 4 port exhaust header (no detune box).
When my 91 motor dies, I want one of those!!

My father owns a dyno I will run it and show you. And i am planning on putting alot of miles on it to . The owner of pineapple drives his Periphrial port truck around alot.

One more thing, do you have any info on that header you are using?