1990 GTU meet Renesis
 

OK... im going to try and document this as much as possible with pics and tips. i am by no means a genious or have a bunch of money. i also have 2 other TII's wich get most of my money. i want to prove this is one of the best swaps for the price and power.

here we go.

so i'll start it off with getting the core into the car. this is probley the best thing to do first since you cant make anything else without knowing clearence issues.

heres a few pics of the motor mounts i made made 1/4inch steel plate. i got this metal for free this is why i chose it. i cut them out with a sheer and a hand torch. used a belt sander to smooth them out slightly. there not 100% done. i need to do some slight trimming and smoothing to make them look better. but for now, they work and fit very nice. there plenty strong and will be nice with the polyurethane bushings im using.

heres some pics...

motor mount pics


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...rinchplate.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...driverside.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...engersideb.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...is/mountsb.jpg

renesis in the car...am i the first???

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...idemounted.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...idemounted.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...ewcomplete.jpg

im going to add that this is my first ever attempt of trying to make motor mounts.

i bolted the tranny to the motor (S5 NA trans) and put them in together and mounted the tranny using stock tranny mounting positions. i then propped the motor up using a floor jack getting it to the right height and location using a level to make sure its even.

the FD front cover is on there in the picture because i was planning on using it. for the main reason of using the FD crank trigger mounted on the front cover. but im since thinking of using the S4 NA front cover i have on there now and using the FC crank angle sensor. alls you need to do is swap the renesis timing gear for a 12a/13b one and thats it.

i'll be using an FC water pump and housing either way. mainly because the FD one is very ugly and bulky. plus the FC one is lighter. i'll be updating more when i get to it. there much much fabrication to come. most of it will be my first time, proving it dosnt take a pro and a bunch of money.

i'll be hoping for 220-230 WHP when all is complete. in NA form with MPG near 18-20 city driving. and more reliability than any other rotary with equal power. and far more street drivability. this will be a TRUE daily driver with A/C and all!!!

i like it . what engine management are you going to use? and also do you have prices on the core as to how much you spent? my guess for a short block goes for about 4k?

other then that props to you sir . more pics and doc's!

you can always run a carb if money is tight,i have a friend down in PR that put a ported renesis on his datsun using the GLESE pan and front cover(modified)he is running a modified racing beat manifold,650 holley carb,first gen dizzy and custom made header to dual exhaust and he dynoed 236HP a couple of weeks ago.

What oil pan are you using and how are you going to control the electronic actuators for the aux ports?


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I'm definitely gonna have to see how this one ends up, been waiting to see this one for awhile

*subscribed*

not sure at the moment. but most likely a Microtech since KILO (jesus padilla) will be the tuner. and thats what he prefers to tune.

but if i find a haltech for cheap i would go with that. here in Orlando theres a lot of really good rotary tuners. and most poeple use haltech and microtech. im running into the problem right now with my TII cause im using the Apex-i. all the tuners who are familiar with it are almost 2 hours away.

i got my core for 300. its only the 4-port. im still looking for a 6 port. you can find them pretty cheap if you look around. people that work at mazda get them dirt cheap when they come in and they swap the motor. oh, and the motors not broken either.

236 on carb!? fucking sweet! i guess i'll make more than i thought. cool. good to see other people see the light in the renesis.

since im using the FC front cover, im going to use the GSL-SE oil pan or make one out of two 12a oil pans.

and since im going to be using GSXR throttle bodies (ITB's) i will not need to control anything like that. everything will be custom made by me. im only using the renesis core and no bolt on parts.

thanks for the compliments.

joeylyrech... you have any pics of his set up??? i cant believe he made 236 with an old school set-up like that.

so im sure with ITB's and the precise tuning of a Microtech/Haltech by one of the best all motor tuners in the world...i should make pretty good power.

Yeah I was talking to a tech that rebuilds the engines for Mazda in Virginia at the engine facility there, and he was saying that over half the RX-8/rotary engines that the dealers are sending them have absolutely nothing wrong with the engine. That the dealers are just replacing engines rather than figuring out what the issue is.

That's pathetic....

sen2two, nice looking motor mounts, I'll definatly be keeping an eye on this thread, looking good so far!

well not really... if you think about it, it's getting a lot more Reni's available out there for retrofits like this thread.

i know that a problem with them was that there are 2 oil injecters per rotor. but there angled towards the corner seals. so the apex seal are not getting lubed. on the 09 motors, there are 3. one for the apex seal. so there trying to cover up a mistake by replacing the motors

i'll be premixing anyway. but this is why (maybe anyways) a lot of rx8s were having compression issues and low inconsistant dyno numbers.

Hell the average person who purchased an RX-8 who thought it was "cute" or "looked cool" probably knows more about their own car than the majority of the mechanics at the dealerships..... okay maybe just a LITTLE bit of an exaggeration.

Yeah I have always pre-mixed on my '8, but at least the two injectors were better than the setup of the FD motor. But your motor replacement theory is not correct... replacing the motors with the newer design motor would, but just putting the same motor in, doesn't hide or solve anything. More of an issue was that the 4 port motors only got a single oil cooler for the 04 and 05 models, and in warm climates had oil break down issues.

And inconsistent dyno numbers are more a loose nut behind the wheel issue. You need to turn the traction/DSC off, or the DSC computer thinks the rear wheels are spinning but the front wheels are not and it lightly applies the brakes and reduces engine output to slow the rear wheel spin.

Question....Since you are eliminating the fancy intake and all the progressive ports for an ITB setup, isn't that going to make the Renesis pretty gutless down low? It's already not much of a torque monster and pulling all the Mazda optimizations off is going to hurt it a lot.

Regardless, that's a great project. With a good set of mounts it doesn't seem at all difficult to physically swap in the Renesis. And elimination of that ridiculous through-the-mount exhaust manifold will make constructing a set of headers far easier.

Yeah I agree that the end result is a good thing for the rest of us, just pathetic in that the mechanics don't want to do their job and acutally learn about the machine they are "repairing".... Definatly one of the main reasons I do all my own work (like most of us)
Here's my question, how would one go about getting their hands on the engines they get back that still run? I've been casually looking for one for a while....

i shoulnt have any less low end than a 12a with webbers. or earlier 13b with similar. also, the plan right now is to have at least 12-14 inch runners. but the alternator is causing a fitment problem. we'll see how that goes in time...

small update:

im going to be using the FD coils. so i made this little bracket to mount them on the frame near the steering column. all i id was cut a flat piece of 14 gauge steel to size, and then used the old nuts off the original bracket. welded them down and bought some bolts and presto! FD coild mounts. i think it came out well for 2 minutes or work and design.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/S5000025.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/S5000026.jpg

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/S5000027.jpg

Can't wait to see how this goes :icon_tup:

Yep 236hp on a carb with a ported sixport renenis,for the oil pan he fabricated his own pickup tube and used 2 pans in order to make the one for the renesis,he used the fc front water housings and water pump(there is some clearances issues but you just need to grind a little bit to make them fit,rotors were machined to accept pre renesis seals,motor was installed on a street driven blue 1200 datsun,let me try to get some pictures buddy.

i guess that kilo knows about the datsun setup if not im sure that he can get you some more info 2

one of the reasons that techs at dealerships just swap out motors is because of time. warranty will only cover a certain amount of time, so why would the mechanic care about tearing the engine apart? it is all business at dealerships. if a tech took the time to do a tear down, he looses money. let's say warranty engine replacements pay 10 hours, that means he has to remove and replace the engine and have it running in 10 hours to break even. if he takes longer he loses money because warranty won't pay him more. if it were a cash engine where there was no warranty then the labor rate would change in favor of the tech, he could charge more hours and cover his time spent.

cool...

thanks man. pics would be great.

+1 - i'd definately want to see the end result. kudos to the op and good luck.

lol I have to see how this ends up keep us posted dude

What is the reason for using the FD coils, which are generally considered inferior to the FC?

I'm curious to find out if that's true. It would seem that with as much port area ass the Renesis has, eliminating the progressive manifold would be worse then wiring the VDI and aux ports on the older 13B. As a daily drive it seems odd that all the optimization Mazda has done to give the engine a decent midrange gets thrown away for a system that is essentially designed for race only and only makes power over a narrow range.

My guess is the Microtech is set up for the FD.

sweet project. you very well could be the first to have a renesis fc.

well i know that shop in Japan put one in a 1st gen. and an earlier post stated that someone has one in a datsun in PR. so hopefully i am the first reni powered FC.

well, im actually unsure to how much low end will be present. but im sure it will be plenty enough. maybe not as much as a factory rx8 with the stock manifolds. but the lighter weight of the car will make up for that.

also, even BP 12a's with down draft webbers (wich are pretty much ITB's) are driven on the street daily. and thats supposed to be a all top end set-up.

yes, the FD coils have been known to be inferior to FC coils. but my choice for them is pretty simple. i had them sitting there. so convienence plays a part. and they are more compact and use only one ignitor. so its also an asthetic thing.

now if they can produce enough spark to handle 500 and 600 horsepower turbo 13b-rews. they will be just fine to handle the stock internally reni. and the stock reni coils are the weakest of all. so its still an upgrade. and i just might throw a 6a on there. not sure yet.

To the OP, good luck and kudos for taking on the project by yourself i wish i was that handy and had that much time.. It's funny cuz alot of the guys i know down here are swapping their Reni's out for 13b's or rebuilding with Turbo II Rotors to go turbo.

^^ yes, anything is better than stock Renesis ignition.

those motor mounts scare me a lil. dont they need bracing?

I was wondering when someone would finally jump on this. Good luck! Subcribed!

good luck man...why go through all this trouble just to get less than 240 horses. why not go turbo, i know the renesis has high compression but it can be done with great tuning maybe 8psi???

i love it. subscribed.

nice. Subscribed!

its about time...suprised i got this question so late in the posts...lol

put it this way. a stock TII has 198 flywheel. a stock 4-port reni has the same. a 6 port reni has 236 i think.

thats equal or more power from an NA reni than a turbo II. with better gas milage. less emissions. better throttle response. far better chances on reliability. pretty much, its better in everyway. its not always about having the most power. if i wind up getting 230WHP. i could spank a evenly weighted FC with 300. no lag buddy. its been proven that NA is better if you can just make enough power. look a the V8 guys stomping on turbo people.

plus, i have 2 other TII's. one with over 400. and the other should be over 500, closer to 600. its get old...

i could go on with this much much more. but i wanted to keep this discussion out of this. its a build thread. and i have seen how these debates can drag on here. now that gets REAL old... so if you would like to discuss this choice of mine (PM me and keep it out of here)

you don't have to justify reasons to put a Renesis in an FC. It's inherently cool ;)

I've toyed with plugging a reni in a fd. bring the cost in under 10k, no a/c no p/s no nothing, just 225-250hp in a light, reliable fd with good gas mileage. "reliable" and "fd" don't get used in the same sentance much

i also have subscribed to this thread. for your first time making engine mounts that was one good job! also the bracket for the coils looks really neat. keep up the good work i am eagerly waiting to see this thing done.

Microtech LT8 on the way!!! woo hoo!

Oh i see...good valid point. a 13 second NA daily would be awesome!!! I know the old 13b in NA form can easily go over 200k with excellent care so maybe with a more advanced design it will take care of you for 10+ years

exactly

Yeah, my friend has a '04 auto rx7 and she had to get her motor changed too, they said nothing was wrong with but build up in the motor because she wasnt running it hard enough to free it up =]

so now she drives it like she stole it. still slow as ballz though.

I don't think the FD coils alone are enough to poduce the spark needed at those levels. The one thing that I wold be really worried about is dwell time when you get into the higher RPM's. The renni redlines much higher than the REW and therefore there is less dwell time. The FD coils from what I was told by the gents at Motec, can't really handle alot of dwell time, nor do they produce alot of spark with little dwell time. I was told of an instance where tuning at a track someone had LSX coils on a renni and there were ignition issues. The LSX coils were swapped for STOCK RENNI coils and all issues went away becuase the stock Renni coils require less Dwell time. I would give ALOT of consideration to using stock renni coils. This coming from a guy using 4 LS2 coils too.

Are you speaking from experience or out of your ass again?

I see nothing wrong with those mounts. I think they look great and are well done. Is that all TIG welded?

I agree, the mounts look great. Well done

thanks for the comments on the mounts. and yes they are fully TIG welded.


about the coils. no one disputes them to be better than FC coils, and nothing has been proven or disproven about the reni coils. but the FD coils are not "bad". they are just not better than FC coils. but for my NA application with no PP, or bridge. they should be more than enough. especially if i add a 6a. or a few of them. they have been ran on FD motors well into the 9k rpm range of the renesis. and in PR, they still run 1st gen dizzys on boosted motors running 10's. FD coils > 1st gen set up

so my choice of coils are not that important to me. they will do the job. and do it well. and i think they will look the best when completed.

Noice. I love it!