$2006 racecar?
 

ok, please dont flame me, i'm a complete newb here and i have some questions i figured you guys could help me out with. i just baught a 87 GXL and i'm preping it for the 2006 grassroots motorsports challange. info the catch is i can't spend over $2006 on the car to get it ready and that includes the cost of the car. got the car for $250 with blown apex seals but everything else is in good shape. i need to figure out how to make it fast in the drag, handle great (grip, not drift..lol) for auto-x and look good as a show car for under $1756. i need some hella suggestions. i already know i'm gonna street port it while the engine is out so that is a little extra help. 2005 winner was an 88 GTU with a ford 302 in it and it ran 11.6 quarter mile. i know without boosting it i'm gonna have a hard time making it fast so that's why i'm banking on the auto-x and show to make it a winner. i dont want to skimp on speed, but it's second on the list.

thanks for any help guys. anything constructive is welcomed

Sell the interior to make up some more money on your budget.
Buy a wrecked TII with a good motor. You'll never be fast enough N/A (IMHO).
Handling is key for the autox, that means you need good bushing (urethane or delrin), springs, dampers (adjustable), brakes, and tires (R-compound). All of them can be found used in good condition, except maybe the bushings, unless you get really lucky with the wrecked TII parts car.
Good luck

You need to learn how to sell parts to make money.
Read back issues of GRM that covers previous competitions.
The trends seems to buy multiple cars to sell the parts so you can spend more your race car.


-Ted

yeah, i think the max you can recoup is half of the total budget as far as selling parts goes.

have any specific recommendations on suspension parts makers, springs, struts, ect..? same with preformance? i know racingbeat makes good stuff. i have a bunch on my wifes P5.

p.s. car is currently bone stock.

The hard part for any rotary is to do well in the drag race.
This is where V8's have an upper hand.
The year the BMW 2002 won (back in 2002) was only due to the stupid bonus for running that car that year.
I think almost every contest since then it's been some V8 monstrosity.


-Ted

yeah, but i dont want to take away from the car by putting some shitty V8 in it. the rotary is a masterpiece (a very expensive one but a masterpiece none the less) and i think it should stay in the car. to me, it's not the same and i wouldn't be proud of myself.

If you stay rotary, about the only option is to go NOS.
Going big turbo or SC will mean expensive stand-alone EMS, which will blow your budget. :(
I'd suggest reading up on nitrous!


-Ted

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Energ...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-A...spagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TEIN-...spagenameZWDVW

dont buy them new obviously...except the bushings....look in for sale section, and check ebay for used versions.

the KYB AGX are adjustable. im getting them for my car to do autocross.

go with an RTEK 1.7 then buy new injectors, and a big turbo....that should make some decent power.

i have the AXG on my 2002 Impreza RS and i love them. i'm not a big fan of teins, i have them on my wifes P5 and i think the drop is to aggressive and doesnt allow for the propper weight transfer. does eibach, mazdaspeed or racingbeat make a good coilover or spring set that's affordable?

Another hint is spend money on the tires!
If you can, get used racer slicks - check local race tracks.
You can have tons of power, but if the tires can't put it to the ground, you'll go no where. :(


-Ted

Maybe the Megasquirt would be absolutely beautiful for a project exactly like this :)

i have some Racing beat lowering springs on my car, they handle really good. i would deff suggest them for your car.. also if your interoir is gray pm me ill buy a few peices from it

not a bad idea. i've heard people have really good success with it as long as you know how to do some wireing and have some electrical knowledge (which i have little of).

for tires i have a set of kuhmo victroracers that i'm gonna use. i know they arent as good as the v710's but i got a set that has 8 or 9 events on them for $100. :bigthumb:

what if people just "give" you stuff to use and you return it after?


hmmmm

i mean i might be able to loan you my 26B TT for a week or two if you wanted....haha i wish

hey, a gift is a gift, not a purchase. if you already have items sitting around before you start the build that's one thing. i guess you could also buy the car with certain modifications done to it and they would not be included in the total cost, just the cost of the car.

so, i guess if the guy i buy the car from puts stuff on the car before he sells it to me then we wouldnt have a problem....hehehe... :cool:

i havent baught the car yet, but the seller is my best friend....

id say look into megasquirt. thats gonna have the best tuneablity. then get some good suspension, and those tires should be fine...

you should probably supercharge and turbocharge it...that would be sick

I've heard nothing but good things about RS*R Race Springs. You can get a brand new set for around $200 if you look hard enough. When the time comes to replace my suspension, I'm going with KYB AGX's with the RS*R's. Just something to consider, good luck!

-Darren

back on track...
 

so, is racingbeat pretty much the way to go all the way around? i know they make speed and suspension parts but are they the best bang for the buck so to speak? i need the best and cheapest from headers to bushings to intakes. please help me here guys. thanks!!!

i think instead of the AGX i'm gonna go with Koni yellows on this one. i know they are gonna cost a bit more but they are always worth a little more money.

Racing Beat spring rates are too soft for autocross. Do some searching and you'll see FC autocross cars running anywhere from 300lb/in to over 500lb/in springs.
Don't kid yourself into thinking you will still have a street car when you're done. If you want to be competitive you have to build it like a race car... gut EVERYTHING you're not forced to keep. AFAIK, that's just the dashboard.
Look at QA1.net for springs. Very customizable for length and rate, and are very cheap.

o i know it wont be very streetable. i have already gutted the interior and am planning atleast a 6 point cage. i'm going to have it tagged for street use so i dont have to trailer it everywhere but it's gonna be a full out racecar.

thanks for the spring advice. i had no diea people were running such high spring rates. i'll check out the website above and see what they have. thanks man!

Alright, some things I forgot to mention earlier. Seeing as you have a GXL, you're gonna have to do quite a bit of weight reduction. You'll probably want to weld a piece of metal in place of the sunroof too. As far as porting the engine, I'd suggest a 1/3 bridgeport. Do a good sized streetport on the primary ports, and then do a bridgeport on the aux ports. Leave the actuators functional obviously, though you'll have to do it with an RPM switch and airpump. I can link you to my writeup if you're intesrested. That style of port will give you a lot of high end power with a lot smaller decrease in low end.

Racing beat is pretty high quality stuff, but it's going to break your budget if you stick with them. Their headers go for over $200 new, but look around for a used one. I got one for $90 shipped. For exhaust, you'll probably want to go with a true dual style, where each exhaust port has its own pipe. Racing beat makes a full system, but it's expensive. Just get the header and a couple cheap mufflers (or, skip the mufflers :) ) and get the piping custom bent. RB's stuff is all stainless steel, but for a race-only car you don't need it to last forever so get mild steel.

actually the guy down the street from me is prepping a grassroots 7. He swapped in a 350 and has a fully stripped interior for the moment. he got every thing for relatively cheap at a junk yard.

since most of that was pretty much greek to me i'd love it if you could link me to the writeup. i'm still learning how the rotary works. i understand the basics but when you get into the detailed stuff i get lost. thanks man.

NO ROTOR, NO MOTOR

but thanks man.

This is what I'm taling about for porting:

http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=44074

And here's the electronic port actuator writeup:

http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...Electronic+6PI

My wiring's kind of a mess :p.

Actually, the slowest V-8 still beat the fastest rotary on the autocross section of the competition. Honestly, if you want to be competitive, you'll need to go with the V-8.

And the biggest part of autocross has always been the driver, so practice up.

I absolutely HATE putting v8 in a rotary car, but in your case you may have to...even with nitrous oxide and a few support mods you wont break into 13s. Also rebuilding your engine isn't excatly cheap either. I would take kyb agx over koni yellows though. I have them on my car and they are more for track use than daily driving I can tell you that. Also bushings are a must.

believe me, i do pratice. you get a bit different feel while driving an AWD torque monster though. i wont really know how i'm gonna react until i get behind the wheel of an FR car. i've driven several subies, two P5's and a couple franken civics but never a FR car in a auto-x. this is only my second year with my local club and i'm still learning how to become a better driver. even if i take the car out an dont win, i've always got next year...and the year after that...and the year after that....ect. :rolleyes:

i have AGX on my Impreza RS as well and i love them, but i think koni's my be a better choice only because of the broad range you have to adjust them.

i dont care how much time i lose here but i'm not putting a V8 in the car, period. i will not disgrace the RX-7 name by putting some hyped up american engine in it. plus, now i get to show you guys that a N/A rotary can compete in this event! :rlaugh:

Thank you very much! v8 in seven is a very sad thing.

make stuff yourself-its cheaper and you can get it to look nice. you can make vented headlight covers pretty much for free(use the one off the car + bondo or fiberglass)and that will work for the show car part. depending on your access to tools/materials, this could really help your budget!! :bigthumb:

Here's a link with everything you'll need:bigthumb:



www.grannysspeedshop.com



Good luck.

thanks guys, you have all been a lot of help.

FC guys are so damn much cooler than FD guys...lol. :D

If you are looking for forced inductions I remember a Grassroots magazine article a couple of years ago that used an electric leaf blower as a supercharger on a BMW. I was like WTF but the damn thing boosted around 15psi if I remember right. Just another option :rlaugh:

i agree with reted. a 150 shot of nitrous in a totally gutted streetported NA will get to you nearly 300whp which is plenty for 12's in a 2500lb car.

you're gonna spend atleast 500 bucks on the rebuild so thats gonna lave you with about 1500 bucks to get tires, springs/shocks, nitrous, a clutch, etc. not including the money you'd get from selling parts, spoiler, sunroof assy, etc. so selling that stuff might be able to get you some tires or a clutch.






thats cause we know how to ball on a budget :)

if you look into forced induction though, get an ss autochrome turbo :bigthumb: they have been known to crack I think, but it should last a few months of racing :P

ok, well just a quick update. picked up another motor and tranny with a blown rotor last night (freebie!!) and i'm still tossing the idea of the rebuild vs. the V8. i already have the V8 motor lined up (chevy 283 4 bolt) so that's an idea. the car is gutted and i'm getting ready to start selling parts to recoupe some of the cash. the real work is gonna start in april when my garage is finished. figured i'd fill you in.

Spend a lot of time on the concours part of the project - for many of the competitors, that's where they leave a lot of points on the table.

Last year's winner was fast, but also looked amazing. What really brought it home was that it looked like the motor swap looked like it came from the factory that way and then let the car sit in their garage for a couple of decades. The Nissan "343" project was the same thing.

HUH???? Did you just completely 180 on that V8 idea or what?

well, kinda. i came to the harsh reality that i will never win the drag competition with the budget i have on the 13b. i think what i'm gonna do is put the 283 with a 4 barrel webber and a 200 shot in for the challenge. after that i'm gonna pull the motor and tranny setup and sell it as a kit and put the 13b back in before it becomes a dedicated track car. a V8 swap would really screw up my classing in SCCA and NASA. who knows what will happen though. if i can come across a good carb setup for the 13b for really cheap then i just may go that way. it's all up in the air right now.

Just to chime in, The Megasquirt is an awesome EMS, especially for a challange like this. I ran it on my car for all of last autoX season, and I loved it.. I can't wait to see how it does with boost this season :)

A stock 283 SBC is a piece of crap. At least put a 350 or a ford 302 in it. Not to be a dick but you're probably not going to win the challenge so why not put something together that you like (a rotary if it's your cup of tea) have fun competing and then have a car you want when you're done.

dude, do a cheapo rotary rebuild, buy a used nitrous kit and get a 150 shot jet. also get a megasquirt&spark ECU, fuel pump, some used bigger secondary injectors and you're golden.

seriously.

If you've got 2 blown s4 na motors, you have enough parts to make it run with about $50 in soft seals.
Maybe you can streetport it while it's apart?

Nitrous + 13b = fast! I'd spend your money on the best used wet nitrous kit that you can get ahold of. I see no reason why you can't be in the 12's easily.

Get a pair of drag slicks if possible, and buy some roadcourse slicks too for the autox/show.
If your stock suspension is in good order, leave it alone, the stock FC suspension is no slouch.
Gut it! Paint it if the paint sucks!

megasquirt seems like a good idea too. Make sure it's reliable.

i really want to see an NA FC run with a large shot of nitrous. i have NEVER seen that.

well, help me figure out exactly what will work and then maybe you can ;). i just have very very limited knowledge of the 13b and how to get power out of it.

and btw, i was using a 283 because i got the motor for $50.

you could beg and beg someone in possesion of a 26 b rotary engine to let you have it for $1500 or something. haha not gonnahappen but you'd (I wanna say win but that's skill dependant) but your odds would increase.