How to: Coverting N/A to TII
 

Hello folks seems a lot of you are interested in Turbo'ing your N/A's

parts list:
TII Motor complete
i.e manifolds,turbo,injectors,intercooler.....
Turbo wiring harness
TID
Turbo Hood or get a front mount
Turbo boost sensor (strut tower)
selenoid resistor
Turbo Airflow meter
Turbo ECU
Turbo acc cable

So Ill make a little write up and post some visual aids tomorrow
(digi cam batt dead)

NA prep::::::

lift up the passenger side carpet
and you will see a metal shield that houses the ECU
disconnect the ECU
pull out ecu
there's more yellow /orange on the side
disconnect those too
including a small white plug that is hooked up to a brown boost sensor looking thingy

open hood
pull out charcoal canister
and wiper reservoir
gently start pulling the wiring out
next disconnect all the chassis wiring
oil sensor
engine temp sensor
spark wires
take out rad
and fan
lift car
drain oil
disconnect oil lines
disconnect fuel lines
( you might want to yank out the fuel pump fuse
and spin motor to remove fuel pressure)
becarefull with the front ones you need
2 wrenches
then get back under car disconnect starter
motor bolts
then top motor bolts
ac lines
remove top manifold
powersteering lines
disconnect and remove na airflow meter
disconnect and remove boost sensor
disconnect whole exhaust leaving the exhaust manifold
but a jack under the tranny so it don't fall
double check everything is clear to yank motor out complete
Ok get engine hoist
hook up chain to rear and front cast housings
remove the motor
with alt,water pump,bottom manifold etc intact


2 things to consider

1: Do you want to keep your current drive train (tranny and diff)
2: you want to drop a whole TII engine and drive train (expensive
unless you find a donor car)

In my case I found a 88 Turbo II motor complete with ECU,boost sensor
wiring harness,intercooler turbo
for $600
spent another 600-700 rebuilding and porting the motor

I did not however have the Turbo tranny or starter or drive shaft
or rear end
so what to do?

Easy! My SE was a 87 so I swapped the Turbo flywheel and front counterweight and put the n/a counter parts.

Note) Don't install 89-91 counterweights on a 87-88 engine
eccentric shaft has different balance

Once my engine was put together (all pollution stuff removed makes installation a breeze)
I put the turbo manifold and turbo on the engine
put the bottom intake manifold on
installed the meter oil lines top breaks just install silicon hoses
plastic to oil injectors.
make sure you hook up a vacuum like to the fuel reg to a vacuum
source there one on the bottom manifold by the injectors
then hooked up the wiring (fuel injectors, water pump sensor
TPS etc

once you got most of the wiring pugs hooked up
It's time to install the engine into the bay

This the tricky part especially when doing it alone :)

get the engine hoist and chain to the rear and front cast housings

put a jack underneath the tranny and lift the tranny all the way
move engine over rad support keeping it centered
get it close to tranny.
Once lined up slowly let the engine down till you see the trannys
shaft go into the clutch. Now lower the tranny a bit and try wiggling the engine to get the shaft to seat inside the pilot bearing.( you might have to lower or rise tranny a few times while pushing the engine towards the tranny for it to seat properly)
The bitch here is getting the motor mounts to line up
the passenger side mount is the easy one
install the rubber mount to the body and the cover
the engine mount will fall on this
The driver side has the bolt the needs to go thru the chassis
good luck here :) took me a good hour to get it in
Once you see that the top rear housing of the motor is pretty
flush to the tranny put a bolt on the top by the passenger side to keep the motor from disconnecting from tranny
when your lowering the tranny all the way

OK your almost there
finish bolting the motor up, hook up the main oil lines
install starter
install the mazdatrix down pipe(recommended $115

now we need to pass the wiring warness ecu plugs thru the firewall
pass the plugs one at a time
then go inside the car and pull the plugs till it reaches the ecu area
There's one white plug that hooks up to a brown boost sensor looking one.
The yellow plugs are easy, you cant mix them up cause there different sizes ,only the correct ones can plug into ecu

go ahead and install the rad+fan and hoses
hook up the temp sensor
oil temp
rad sensors
solenoid resister-big white plug in front of passenger side strut tower.

Now for the top manifold
place on top of bottom manifold
making sure it has a new or good condition gasket
bolt it up
hook up throttle position sensor
manifold pressure sensor
alternator wires
install TID and airflow meter
bov
and vacuum hoses to thos parts
like the boost sensor
3 way tee
maybe a 4 tee for a boost gauge
install intercooler
tighten all clamps real good
hook up fuel lines
new spark plugs

You need to replace the NA accelerator cable with a Turbo one
much longer wraps around motor


add water and coolant
install batt
DO NOT put the spark wires yet
get in car
crank the motor
to let oil lub the motor and
the turbo (15 secs or so)

Now hook up the spark plug wires
get back in car
*prey* LoL
wait a few secs for fuel to build pressure
turn the key
after a few motor spins
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

she Lives! she Lives!! :) :)
cough* cough* Oh my the smoke

after a few min outside the smoke will go away

next get a custom 3 inch exhaust
go to track
run 13's :)

*I might of forgot some stuff
but that's the jist of it

O thats it? Ight I guess I'll do my concersion tomorrow then. :D

Very Well Done
 

You sir are a great man.
I'm sure this will help plenty and btw thanks from all the newbies asking ;-)

oh yeah, here ya go
If you don't want me hosting just tell me and I'll take it down
http://members.home.net/node10/How_T..._Kabooski1.doc
right click and save as

Incredible, looks like you obviously know your car from a-z, congrats...

I am very new to rx7's cars, and hopefully will be purchasing a 1990-1991 Rx7 Non Turbo in a few months time...

Can you please tell me how much it will cost? To get all these parts??? An estimation I suppose? It would really help, I want to know what im getting myself into here

Thanks A lot

Take care

Ps... Im taking it, that its possible to do on a 1990-1991 rx7

Wiring Harness
 

Well i am on the way of converting my NA to a TII. Do yo mean wiring harness as in wiring harness or ENGINE wiring harness (i know its a dumb question). Also since i have a 86 i want to go with a 89-91 TII engine...so i would need a series 5 engine wiring harness, ECU am i missing anything else?


thanks
Will:D

I'll try to remember to archive this thread when everybody is done posting in it.

86FC.......I'm sure Kabooski will answer you, but did you notice in his post the part about the counterweights? Its important. If you want to keep your 86transmission and put in a 89turbo engine, I believe your going to have to put a 86 counterweight on the 89 engine to match the 86flywheel. Kabooski, is that right? I am still a little in a fog about the counterweights. Also see http://www.mazdatrix.com/b5.htm about halfway down the page is a note about counterweights, rotors and flywheels. Just trying to help.

*shoves Mykl in a box and archives him*

If he wants to use the series 5 motor and keep n/a drivetrain

he needs to use a series 5 n/a flywheel and counterwieght
the 89+ rotors wieght is diffrent then the 86-88

the wiring harness i'm discussing here is the one that goes to the motor-the one that has the injector plugs
yes you need series 5 ecu ,harness and airflow meter

yeah i just got done doing this last week and its a hell of a lot easier and a hell of alot of harder with the haltech. its cooler wiring and you know what everything does yet its a bit harder to wire than stock stuff. and there's a hell of a lot less to wire than stock wires.

yeah i did half a day to pull the motor out and random shit you dont need for haltech.

next half day popping new motor in.

and the next full day wiring haltech.

really pretty easy. now the turbo driveline is collecting dust and stinking up the garage. thats another project for another day.
jason

:(

Oh, I have a recommendation.

I've not ever pulled an engine from an RX-7, but I would think that it would be much much easier to pull the engine and transmission both at the same time rather than trying to line the engine up with a transmission that's resting on a jack when you try to reinstall the engine.

I'm sure it would take a bit of maneuvering to get them both in and out at the same time, but overall I would think that it would make installation of the engine easier.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think it would make it easier or more difficult?

yep it's easier that way (bit longer process tho)
You would need some one there to help you line things up
and bolt the tranny mounts, while you hold the engine steady

I did not have any to help me :( so I had to do it the hard way :)

Not that it matters but I've done a few and thought about removing the whole shebang. Came to the conclusion that, no, its easier doing the engine alone. Too much time lost removing interior parts and exaust parts to make clearance. As long as the engine is reasonably level in relation to the transmission and I did a good job installing the clutch, I have no problem. I have struggled on one car in particular because I half assed the above items. Payed dearly. Always do it by myself. Now that I said that, I'm sure twelve hundred people will write and say baloney. Personal preference.

Every thread I've read on this is about swapping the engine, but I was wondering is there any way to fabricate something without swapping the engine?

The "RX7 Performance Handbook" kinda glosses over the whole process of adding a turbo to an NA by saying that the second gen transmission is strong enough. :rolleyes: But I find that a little hard to believe.

3 quick points to add in here.

1. I agree with the comment that the engine is easier to remove and install alone with no tranny attached. I have the whole car jacked up on stands and the tranny is on stands as well. i lower the motor in and line up the tranny to the motor then turn the flywheel until I get the right lineup and bam she is in :)

2. The N/A is not strong enough to handle a turbo in my opinion. If people can break the driveshaft with their cars being N/A, think of what a turbo would do :D

3. The only thing you have to worry about when figuring out the flywheel/counterweight issue is what year are your rotors from. If you have a series 5 motor, then you need series 5 counterweight. You can use a lighter flywheel but you will need the automatic transmission counterweight from a series 5 car. The same goes with any engine. The counterweight is the key. In stock configuration manual trannies the counterweight is integrated into the flywheel so you wont see an extra one.

Hey kabooski, is that pic in your sig your actual car? I would love to see some pics of your project and your car, awesome work man.

1. If you're pulling just the engine, then I'd just leave the tranny in there, primarily because of all the stuff you've gotta do to get the trans out (exhaust, heat shields, then driveshaft). I don't see what interior parts you need to remove, save the plastic shifter console and a few bolts.. I'd hope that isn't TOO much work :)

However, that's not to say that pulling it out with the engine is hard. It's about the same difficulty as pulling a boinger engine with trans.

2. Getting the mounts to line up: tilt the drivers side mount in (it's the one with just a hole. Then lower the other side and it will slide down into the slot there. Meanwhile use a jack to lift the rear of the trans up, but don't bolt in. Once the two mounts are in, then bolt up the trans. It means a little grunt power, but it's maybe 30 minutes work.

I was doing a 12A swap into my '80 SCCA Car (I was just looking for TurboII swaps, that's how I came across this thread), but anyhow, we had to do motor/tranny and I think it is a HUGE pain to line up engines to trannies when they're inside the car, much easier to yank them both out together, mate the new stuff together outside the car, then drop them both in from the top (don't even TRY to do it from the bottom, we tried and it wasn't going to work unless we took off the front swaybar (or what looked like a swaybar, this is the first real work on a car I've done besides brakes, exhaust, that crap).. So moral of the story, if you're pulling 'em both (and even if you're not) I think it's easier to pull them together.

When replacing the N/A trans with the TII, the drive shaft is the same in lenght streght and overall dimentions right.

I would seem easier to put in the engine and trans togerther wouldn't it.

Found this web site with great price on TII engine, trans, ecu and wiring harness.




http://swapjdm.com/swapjdm/home.htm

Just found out that there is no ecu or wiring harness included

You've re-invented hope for me kabooski!
I really really wanted to do this some time back and decided against it due to the driveline issues with my 86 N/A.

I spent a fair whack of money getting a custom shaft built for her with replaceable unions and I didn't want to ditch that for an old piece of shit. The fact that you have successfully done this transplant and kept all the old gear REALLY makes me want to do it now, I think it may be time to start saving.

NO NO NO!!!!
The counterweight YEAR must match engine, front counterweight is not different for NA or turbo. If you use an 86-88 engine (NA or turbo, doesn't matter)with a tII tranny (of any year) use an 87-88 TII flywheel and the stock front counterweight. If you use an NA tranny with that same engine, use an 86-88 NA flywheel)

If you use an 89-91 engine (NA or TII, doesn't matter) with a TII tranny, you use an 89-91 TII flywheel. If you use the same engine with an NA tranny, you use an 89-91 NA flywheel.

The flywheels are different due to the difference in ROTOR weight. NA and TII rotors weigh the same. See the mazdatrix website for confirmation if you don't believe me.

Brad

One thing that you guys are forgetting about this conversion is that we need lots and lots of $$$$$$$$$$. :)

But once were done...it will be all worth it! :) :)

wickedkin6s44

have fun busting that n/a tranny;)

If I ever get all the parts I'll be doing a slightly different version of what Aaron did.

The writeup looks good, can't wait for pics.

1. The N/A tranny is strong enough (its also lighter)
2. Its easier to pull the engine alone on a 2nd gen
3. Its much easier and cheaper to put a turbo on a N/A then to do the motor swap( just yank out all the wiring except the ignition stuff, take out all the injection stuff, buy a manifold from RB and a weber sidedraft carb and turbo hat from your local VW shop, get a turbo and manifold(very easy to make thanks to RB exhaust flange) get some intake tubing and done) yes its that simple.

actually, theres things you have to consider mattrx7. when you boost a N/A, it's not really built that way. If you would want it to be reliable, you're gonna have to build up the motor to accept boost reliablity. so why not get a turbo motor that's already has all that... makes sense ..

so are u talking from experience or stuff u read on the internet.
I have heard of ppl breaking the n/a tranny every 2000miles from the abuse of a turbo motor.
Its gotta be hard to control the turbo with a carb, i've heard of lost of complications, its't it hard to compress air through a carb?

Im talking from experience on this, I guess if you like to pop the clutch at 6000 you will break the tranny. And also its very easy to run a turbo with the carb you just need common sense. If you stay under 12 psi run good gas and plugs an intercooler, retard the timing the N/A engine does fine. But hey the world hates poeple who are different so just keep doing your engine swaps.

-Matt

SO KEEP TO THE NORM, lol j/k do u have any pics of your setup?

Im still waiting on the turbo for my current car but as soon as its done ill post some pics, ill put them on my thread: Cheap and Fast , as soon as possible. You can read about my 87 N/A (soon to be turbo) there.

-Matt

so any clutch and flywheel from any year will fit into my 87 GX tranny? i thought they were a diffrent size?

nice job

If anyone is looking for a new ported second gen engine for this type of swap, I am selling one. Check out my thread under second gen parts. I have all the accessories needed, including a hi-po turbo, trans, digital fuel injection or the factory system, racing beat down pipe and so on. Let me know as I will be somewhat flexible on the price since I won't start my next project until I sell this drivetrain. Still in the car so I can prove what condition it is in.

I have always had and intrest in turboing my NA engine. What do u mean by building it up to accept boost? How would u go about doing that?

Can't u just run a bit lower boost to make up for the higher compression of an NA engine?

The turbo engine has a lot of internal modifications to allow it to handle the boost and heat. I would never suggest running jmore than five pounds on a NA engine block.

5 pounds ain't much

what boost does a stock T2 run at?

a stock TII runs about 8 lbs, with a good downpipe and exhaust that jumps up to 9-10 lbs. I ran mine as high as 14 lbs. You can really feel the 10 pounds forcing you into your seat.

thanks
:D

I'd like to know It a Turbo II Motor and Tranny will bolt directly to my GXL LSD Differential (of the same year).

I know the na Tranny cannot sustain the abuse the Turbo Motor dishes out but what about the na LSD as opposed to the Turbo Differential? Would It be recommended to swap out the na one to that of a Turbo one?

*edit* I'm aware the Drive Shafts have to be replace aswell.:)

the tranny will not last, but the rear dif should be ok up to 250 hp or so. Besides that it is almost a drop in change

650 cfm #4011 holley marine, Racing beat TII intake manifold (No more waiting for Jay-Tech RIP) turbonetics pressurizer, aeromotive carburator fpr, a good fuel pump, TII turbocharger and exhaust manifold, blow off valve, early distribuitor, already existing trailing coils, some fittings, steel braided fuel lines and someone who can do the settings right.
Holley Marine 650 cfm: About $250.00
Aeromotive fpr: $150.00
Racing Beat Intake Manifold for TII: I got for $210.00
Braided lines: Depending on where you buy the price is per-foot
Fuel pump: I got a Walbro: $110.00
TII Turbo: I got for $150.00
I had the blow-off
Turbonetics pressurizer: $75.00
Fittings: $45.00
Distribuitor: $75.00
Settings: Go figure someone on your are who can do them (I got somebody)
Have fun!!!

@ angel guard
no offense or anything but haven't u blown a handlful of engines? Does it have anything to do with have a carb instead of EFI?

Go to my site.

http://members.rogers.com/rtsracing/intro.htm


has some before and after pics of my conversion.

well guys i have successfully done the swap that kabooski is talking about. and there is one very important aspect that everyone is forgeting. there are three major plugs inder the passengers side dash that will not mate between the 86-88 and the 89-91 harness and a few extra wires that need to be wired into the dash if anyone needs help with this email me (when u get to this point) and i will help you

thanks.. I have been looking for a write up like this for months now. finially i can start planning.....
dave

Some guys are removing engine+transmission+front subframe all bolted together - lifting front of the car, not engine......