Vert reinforncement, need opinions on this idea.
 

As everyone knows chopping off the roof will severly harm structural rigidity, because of this, i'm wanting to remove my door skin from the inner door and remove the window and power motor. After this i want to cut and weld in thick fence posts at the top and middle of the door opening horiztially then replace my door skin by screwing it to these posts. This seems like it will be a great way to stiffen up the unibody, but i'm no professional. I need some help.

How will you get in and out of it? Avatar used stell reinforcing beams under the car to keep it rigid. There a diagram on here somewhere I saw a long time ago. Search for it.

'Subframe' connectors ,carl . Gotta have'em !! they keep the car from sagging in the center, No 'fence post's' square tubular large sections that run from where the uni-body frame ends all the way back to the trailing arms. welded not bolted. a brace right behind the seats to connect the starbard to the port side, again large.
To brace the windshield, use flat steel welded to the,,i guess it's 'a' pillers and across the top of the windshield.
If one wanted to make a 'targa' top, a real targa the same bracing would be effective. I had a friend who 'targa'ed' a 74 capri, and it didn't take long for that thing to 'break' in half, he didn't brace a thing.

http://www.winisp.net/gsl%2Dse/convertible/page3.jpg

http://www.winisp.net/gsl%2Dse/convertible/page13.jpg

I've seen those pictures directfreak, but i want an alternative. I didn't save the ones i found and were actually looking for them again, so thanks. I don't mind hopping over the door to get in, if my idea is feasible. After posting i realized a post across the top of the door frame and an X brace under that would be more effective. I'm just kind of wondering how well this would work, it's cheap and seems effective in my opinion. I was also planning on chopping down the A-pillar and using that as a brace behind the seats. Can i ask that you remove those pictures directfreak? I have the saved and they were helpful, i thank you for that, but they cause my computer to lag. I have 64megs of ram and 56k, it can't take that abuse. :)

Re: Vert reinforncement, need opinions on this idea.
 

Fence posts? I say just chop the shit out of it, and make sure you get a really really high PIP policy on your insurance.

Fence posts are heavy but not very rigid. In any case, I think Xing under each passnger pan (with something better than mild steel fence posts) and a re-purposed rollbar behind the seat would do well.

I'm considering something like that myself, since I have an extra car.

B

make it targa, that would be cool.

The fence posts i have in my yard seem to be very rigid, the poles however flex very easily. I can't think of any material other than that i could have readily available.

Angle iron maybe? You got a welder?

I'm buying a welder before i dive into this.

Do you know how to weld ???? overhead ???? just in case you don't know this try 50-60 amps with 6011 rod
should be good for 'fence post's' Lol good luck.

I've only watched welding be done. I'm just buying a cheap $100 or so welder, hopefully that'll be sufficient.

Has anybody tried a T-top

Use roll bar tubing instead of fence posts. Saftey first!

I don't know where to pick up roll bar tubing.

LOL Ok yeah...

Get good insurance, and I hope you have a hospital near by. This is gonna be danergous. You damn well better make sure that chassis is rigid, or else you are gonna have one or moro of the following, 1) serious property damage, 2) serious injury , or god forbid 3) death from a uncontrollable car at high speeds. Man if you gonna undertake such an endeavor you are gonna have to have proper knowledge of how to do something like this, not to mention the proper tools, and you really really need the right stuff, or you are gonna have a dangerous piece of shit.

I fully agree with Mike. Oh, and Get a 2nd Gen Vert. FB Verts don't look like they were meant to be.

I like first gen verts, i'll give it a shot and see what happens. I guess if i stop posting, you'll know what happened.

every one will say one of these ; poor bastard, what a dumb ass, its a shame, may he rest in piece. so like mike and alex said forget it and try some thing you can do with out hurting yourself or worse someone else.

Hey !!! , Hey, !! (knock, knock) Hey, man. Listen to these guys. Theres alot more to-it then fence posts and just buying a welder,,,,really. There not just saying that for shits and giggles. there telling you that because they give a fuck for one thing, and your M.O. (method of operation) is not sound. Doing it half-ass may result in some real shit. Where-as doing more research about your idea will result in a much better way of taking on such a project. Safety !! doing the work itself. and thinking safety on the road.. GET-IT !!! Before you CUT anything,BRACE the underside of the car first,,,then cut.
Brace,cut. I hope you consider what has been said my friend.

A guy in Vancouver used to convert 280Z's into convertibles a couple of decades ago.
One of the procedures he used was to jack up the center of the car slightly prior to welding in the longitudinal floor-pan braces. This way, once the welding was completed and the jacks removed it was impossible for the center of the car to sag even a little.
He then constructed a deck lid so that a trunk could be fabricated into the rear. Bracing procedure for this was similar to the Avatar, and top was vinyl with a plastic rear window. No word on how leak-proof these cars were.
I asked him for a quote to do the same for my '81 GSL that I had at the time and he said $8000. This was in 1989. I'm guessing this would be more like $15,000 in today's bucks, so doing it yourself would be the only realistic option.
I'd think this can be done safely, but make damn sure you do your homework and gain the necessary expertise before undertaking this.

I surely wouldn't cut a piece of metal off the car before bracing was done. I'll take a trip to a home improvement store and see what i can find. I wasn't necessarily going to use fence posts, that was kind of a general idea of what i meant by posts, something that diameter.

This car has been around for over 8 years. I first saw it @ Buttonwillow Raceway Park IN 1995 with a 13b J-Bridge, 51 IDA wider tires and Tri-link Rear. The owner said there is no chassis stiffening in addition to the roll cage which is pretty basic. I looked all under it @ Sevenstock and underneath I did not see any bracing.

And you can buy roll bar tubing at your local race shop or metalurgy shop.

[http://www.urbanracer.com/gallery/ga...&imageid=70432

home improvement store. now this thread has to be a joke right? first there is no home depot type of store that you are going to be able to get the raw mats that someone would need to complete this type of project. If I remember right you are strugling through school currently. you do not yet have the engineneering training or talent curently to complete this job. buying a 100 dollar welder and never welded: I got to say WTF. go get some formal welding training. take some classes on metals and skiled metal working. then buy a real welder that can do what you need. buy a formal automotive structal anlyz program. learn how to use it. what am I saying this thread cant be for real. oh you could hire some old retired engineer to help you and hope he knows how to weld.

I'm sure a home improvement place has some sort of stainless steel braces and runners.

Lol !! oh fuck ! what are you smoking ??? stainless steel.
You just don't have a clue, do you ? sorry man. is it just me, or what ? just suggesting that some people have been down some of these roads alreaddy and know where they end, so you don't try the roads that fail
and you end up fucking off all effort and time. You might get away with round maybe 1/8 wall tubing, but i'd say square equel widths tubing welded to 'plates' then that welded. All of it,,STEEL !! under the car. start measuring
under the car and find out what your gonna need and how much of it. i'm done.

Don't attempt stainless.

B

Then help out, i'm throwing ideas and getting nothing but "don't do it" or "you're crazy" Tell me what i do need, not what i don't need.

We are telling you, are you reading this? You need proper tools, and some money. You need a nice MIG welder, some angle iron, some tube chromoly tubing and a few other things. You need a welding course, and a course in conventional body work. All In all, after about a year or so in training, you may attempt a 1/2 ass effort to doing this.

Look instead of you fucking the car up, want me to come and get it, Ill pay cash for a 1/2 decent car...If not, i still need some of the Se stuff for a changeover.

give mike the car and go back to school. when you have the money,time,skill and knowlage then try this. cause I goto tell you it looks like you have for-got-to read. the only thing that has not been given to you is the blue prints to do this. you even got a diagram though.

Perhaps i'll do temporary bracing to it of some sort and tow it to school for real bracing to be added.

I guess my situation isn't understood, i AM in school, i have access to a welder and body shop once i get the car tempoarily braced, i just have to make sure it will atleast get me to class so this can be done.

So you have access to the skills needed? Dont be offended, the guys are just trying to tell you that your ideas are un-realistic so far. They dont want to see you get hurt. Is there someone at school who could help guide you in this project? If you havent cut anything, then why put anything under the car temporarily? Bring it to school, let them have a look underneath and figure a safe way of bracing the car. You have the drawings from Avatar, why re-invent the wheel?

:doh: You're right, i can just wait and take it to school to have it looked at. It's amazing how sometimes the answer is right infront of your face and you still look right through it. I guess i was just so excited to get this started i defyed logic.

Well good luck and keep us posted. I'd be interested in what solution you end up with. :)

Just as an added idea. I was thinking of seam welding all of the floorpan along with re-inforcement to help with rigidity.

Right-on carl, at least someone got his attention.. hey man, why not take a welding class while your at school ?
and if you can't change your class's at least talk to the welding teacher, because you never know,,he just might let you spark some metal after school..as long as it doesn't cramp his style. ask'em. mikes right, a mig would be the shit...as would a tig, and a plasma cutter. IMO

I think you're in over your head, pard.
Don't feel bad, it happens.

I'm reminded of a guy from Nebraska who goes to Hawaii on vacation with his wife. They drive around Oahu and come to a beach (Makapuu) where people are bodysurfing. Nebraska man decides that this looks pretty cool and dog-paddles out into the soup.

-which is where I end up pulling him half-drowned into shore about 5 minutes later.

The moral of the story: Don't be like Nebraska Man.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Was that on the north shore wg? Damn huge waves nearly killed me when I was there. Nebraska man shoulda stayed on Waikiki. ;)

To start, oh person with strange handle, brace the car transversely. I think that's pretty easy: you get a good rollbar of moly steel, or whatever, and make sure it's attached securely high above the pan as well as at the pan. That should take care of transverse loads, but you may want to add cross braces between the tops of the front and rear shock tower braces. All this is pretty easy.

The hard part is bracing the car longitudinally. The Avatar picture shows twp braces in the middle and two braces under the rocker panels. Look like channels, but I suppose they could be tubes too. I suggest you find a cheap source of stiff tubes, maybe rollbar material. the reason for welding is to spread the load so it's not at one point that breaks. But you can do something similar by having several bolts, but the problem is that boltholes weaken the material.

If you have an exotic metal for the longitudanal braces you will require exotic welding (mig, tig, etc).

So I think the big problem is the material and attachment of the longitudinal braces. I'd be tempted to try figuring out some novel under bracing, like multimember X-bracing, or a pleated pan, etc.

B

FYI if it's not braced enough the car will fold just behind the rear edge of the doors.

Makapuu is kinda on the Northeast side of Oahu.
I broke my nose bodysurfing there in about 1977. :(

wankelguy,,,,, your dick dale ??? Lol i know i love the way my 73 all stock stratocaster along with my showman head/music man 2x12 ported cabinet gives me that,,,big,fat,wet, dripping, tone.... wheres gidget ?

I bet thats the same beach I went to. Teh waves were like 20 ft high! Tossed me around like a rag doll. :mad: But the body surfing was fun when I wasnt getting pummeled.

What I would do to brace the pan is something like this: get under and measure everything and note the obstructions. Make a false pan of steel plate, maybe 3/16 think (bigger than 1/8, smaller than 1/4, justa WAG) and rib that with, say 1.5 inch ribs, preferably running longitudinal. Go underneath and weld that sucker in, whereever..

B

3/16? A huge boiler plate wont do anything for stiffness. Formed structural steel is what you need to use. Just what size shape and thickness needs to be engineered.

ok, listen up.
Get yerself a sawsall, some galvonised fence post frome home depot, and one of them welding machines from SAMS Wholesale club.

1.Cut the top off that hoe with the saws all.

2. don't even worry about cutting the doors out. Just weld that pipe to the out side of the car. It will work just as good.

3. get some car paint from PEP Boys that matches yer car and spray the fence post to match the car. (Check out the great selection of aftermarket parts from APC while you are there).

4. drive yo car wit pride.

Don't use too much bracing or you will add too much weight and it will slow you down. 1-2 fence post per side should be enough.

Gud luck dude. Post some pictures when yu are done. Thats gone be won tight ride.

:rolleyes:

lol, no, Dick Dale is the "King of Surf GUITAR", I'm just the King of Surf MUSIC. :D

This is a scanned pic from a newspaper article on my band, the Surfonics.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...postid=2248100

Sorry to 'jack yer thread, Zero.;)

I don't mind, i got the help i needed.